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sharptoothed
1 day(s) ago
sharptoothed
1 day(s) ago
I see. :-)
ちなみに、we distinguish at least three skirt (and dress) lengths: mini, midi and maxi. I wonder, which one is the Tom's favourite. :-)
tommy_san
1 day(s) ago
「料理だけは自信あるんだ」は、「料理以外は何でも苦手」という含みがありますが、ここではそういう卑下のニュアンスよりも、唯一得意な料理についての誇りの方が強く出ているように思います。
tommy_san
1 day(s) ago
I don't know very well about skirts, but I think that the opposite of ロングスカート is, at least in everyday speech, not ショートスカート but ミニスカ(ート).
sharptoothed
1 day(s) ago
> 料理だけは自信あるんだ

I feel confident in cooking only.
At least in cooking I'm confident (now).
?
sharptoothed
1 day(s) ago
And what if they are talking not about 女性の髪型 but about 女性のスカート? :-)
al_ex_an_der
1 day(s) ago - edited 1 day(s) ago
Aha. Darüber muss ich nachdenken.
Bisher habe ich noch nie über dieses "Beim-Sprechen-einen-Punkt-setzen" nachgedacht. Das scheint mir unbewusst und mühelos zu gelingen. Wenn ich aber jetzt beginne, mir das bewusst zu machen, fürchte ich fast, es wird mir in Zukunft nie mehr gelingen, einen Gedanken abzuschließen und einen Punkt zu setzen, denn denkt nicht unser Gehirn ständig und unaufhörlich weiter, und sollte ich nicht – dem Beispiel der Japaner folgend – um Höflichkeit bemüht, einen zu plötzlichen Abbruch meines Gedankenflusses zu vermeiden suchend, dem Beispiel unseres unvergessenen Thomas Mann folgen und — Halt! Was wollte ich sagen? Ich habe es vergessen. Du siehst, ich bin gar nicht in der Lage, lange Sätze zu denken. Die begrenzte Speicherkapazität meines Gehirns lässt dies nicht zu.
tommy_san
1 day(s) ago
Vielleicht ist es besser zu sagen, dass ein gesprochener japanischer Satz dazu neigt, nicht wirklich zu enden. Es kann manchmal zu unhöflich klingen, wenn man beim Sprechen einen Punkt setzt! Wenn ich Englisch und Deutsch spreche, verwundre ich mich darüber, wie ruhig ich einen punkt setzen kann.
al_ex_an_der
1 day(s) ago - edited 1 day(s) ago
"A sentence in spoken Japanese tends to be very long."
Oh, das ist überraschend. Mir scheint, im Deutschen ist es umgekehrt.
The best way to write a good German text, is to imitate the sentence length and syntactic simplicity of the spoken language, I would say. ☺

And whenever I can, I try to avoid to write "something I can't say aloud when I speak" (even more: something that does not flow easily over the tongue).
But of course, that's what I do in German and Esperanto, the languages where I feel "at home". Unfortunately I know nothing about Japanese. :(
tommy_san
1 day(s) ago
I'd love to, but I'm not sure how I should translate it.
When I speak Japanese, I rarely end a sentence with た that means the past, because that sounds very abrupt.
I might say トムが手洗いたがってたよ. That would mean that I know that Tom wanted to wash hands shortly before and perhaps still now, so the addressee should take him somewhere and let him wash hands. I don't feel like adding it without an annotation.
There must be many other possibilities, but in most cases, I don't think I'd put a period here when I speak Japanese.
トムが手洗いたいって言うんだけどさ、そんな山の中で手洗える場所とかあるわけないじゃん? だから我慢しなさいって言ったんだけど、いやだ今洗いたいって……

A sentence in spoken Japanese tends to be very long. Therefore, when we try to translate a short sentence into Japanese, it often happens that the only comfortable way to translate it is to translate into written Japanese. That's why more than 3/4 of the Japanese sentences in Tatoeba are written in the written language. There are also lots of sentences that look like the spoken Japanese but are actually different from the way people actually speak. People in novels, dramas and animes often speak that way.

This is not a problem by itself, but when people try to learn to speak Japanese using Tatoeba sentences, the result would be laughable. And I believe it's difficult even for intermediate learners to distinguish different styles of Japanese.
Silja
1 day(s) ago
Ah, great!

Could you please add also a Japanese translation that is something you can say aloud when you speak?
sharptoothed
1 day(s) ago
Ah, I see. Thanks, Tommy!
Does this reflect the idea better:
Now that I know that I'm not the only one who's suffering, I feel relieved a bit.
?
tommy_san
1 day(s) ago
"Realize" is perhaps a bit different. 分かる means here 聞き知る (know, learn, hear from you?).

And なった is again not really past, so "I feel" might be better.
sharptoothed
1 day(s) ago
When I realized that I'm not the only one who's suffering, I felt relieved a bit.
?
tommy_san
1 day(s) ago
You can use this sentence if you're writing a story.

http://www.aozora.gr.jp/cards/0...223_28386.html
彼は取るにも足らない良心の脅迫を軽蔑したかった。
http://www.aozora.gr.jp/cards/0...903_13370.html
灸は弁当を下げたかった。早くオルガンを聴きながら唱歌を唄ってみたかった。
http://www.aozora.gr.jp/cards/0...718_22926.html
この秦啓源を、星野は文学に復帰させたかったのである。彼の詩は中国文学に一つの生気を齎すであろうと、そう考えた。そして彼を文化活動の表面へ誘致したかった。彼のような能才を市井に潜没させておくのは、惜しみても余りあることだ。星野は、一種の在野文化使節としての使命から、また文学者同士の友情から、彼に逢いたかった。
Silja
1 day(s) ago
I just wonder if one of these would be a better way to end this sentence:

洗いたかった --> 洗いたがった (洗いたい + がる + past tense)
or
洗いたかった --> 洗いたかったでしょう

Now it seems quite straightforward to me.
gillux
1 day(s) ago
sharptoothed
2 day(s) ago
Trinkschokolade
2 day(s) ago
"Ich wünschte, es wäre alles nur eine Lüge gewesen."
Trinkschokolade
2 day(s) ago - edited 2 day(s) ago
Silja also has translated "bad drunk".
Did you send this comment to her too?

And... there is definetly no german word, which expresses, what you want to express.

You will have to delete my sentences.

(I could paraphrase, what you say, but I'm not sure, if that would make it a good translation.)
sharptoothed
2 day(s) ago
Thanks for the explanation, Tommy!
It seems that English "bad drunk/drinker" refers to a person who behaves badly when drunk, too.
http://forum.wordreference.com/....php?t=2059153
tommy_san
2 day(s) ago
Good question. It means that a 酒癖の悪い人 is the last kind of person I want to marry. It doesn't necessarily mean that I'd marry anyone if she's not 酒癖の悪い. I don't want to marry a wasteful person, either, but being 酒癖の悪い is worse than that.

Some examples from the 研究社新和英大辞典.

それだけはしたくない。
That's the last thing I want to do. | I will do anything but that.
これだけは覚えておこう。
Remember this (at least).
夫にだけは知られたくなかった。
My husband was the last person I wanted to find out. (I'm not sure if the 知られたくなかった part matches.)

and
酒癖が悪い
be 「quarrelsome [unplesant, disagreeable] when drinking

The German translations don't match. I don't matter marrying someone who drinks a lot.
sharptoothed
2 day(s) ago - edited 2 day(s) ago
Tommy, what's the function of だけ here? What is the closest meaning:
I just don't want to marry a bad drunk.
I don't want to marry someone who is just a bad drunk.
I only don't want to marry a bad drunk. (i.e., ~ I'll marry anyone but a bad drunk.)
?
tommy_san
3 day(s) ago
@CK
Why do you link to a sentence taht you haven't tagged OK? Can't you translate it into a sentence that you think is OK?
And is there a convincing reason to translate 犬と猫 as "cats or dogs"? Does it sound unnatural in English to say "dogs or cats"?
tr54
3 day(s) ago
いえいえ、状況を想像してみますとこちらの文の方がごく自然に感じます。
友人や家族など近しい間柄では「夕食」よりも「晩ご飯」を使うでしょうし、助詞を置かず気持ち的に一拍置いて「晩ご飯()何食べたい?」と言う方が自然ですよね。
ほんと勉強になります。かさねがさねありがとうございます。
tommy_san
3 day(s) ago
付き合うなら、という話です。
tommy_san
3 day(s) ago
tommy_san
3 day(s) ago - edited 3 day(s) ago
tommy_san
3 day(s) ago
やたらと文に「は」を入れたがるのはぼくの個人的な癖かもしれません。
tommy_san
3 day(s) ago
「目的」を使って
「マレーシアに来られた目的は何ですか?」
「マレーシアにはどういう目的でいらっしゃったんですか?」
の路線はいかがでしょうか。
tommy_san
3 day(s) ago
すみません、今見返したらそこまで変えなくてもいい気がしてきました。

トム、夕食/夕飯/晩ご飯/夜は何(が)食べたい?
あたりでもいいかもしれません。
tr54
4 day(s) ago
編集しました。ご指摘ありがとうございます。
tr54
4 day(s) ago
編集しました。ご指摘ありがとうございます。
tr54
4 day(s) ago
少しくだけた文章に編集しました。
ありがとうございます。
tr54
4 day(s) ago
ありがとうございます。編集しました。
tr54
4 day(s) ago
直訳すると「何をする目的であなたはマレーシアに来たのですか?」となるので話し言葉にしては回りくどく感じました。
初対面の旅行者や留学生相手への質問としてはごく一般的なんですが、もう少し悩んでみます。ありがとうございます。
tr54
4 day(s) ago
初めまして。
違和感を抱かれたようですみません。家族や友人に対する普段通りの話し口調のつもりだったのですが、第三者の方が見た場合に「おや」と思われるようですのでtommy_sanの書かれた例文に編集します。
アドバイスを頂けて嬉しいです。ありがとうございます。
lentlby
4 day(s) ago - edited 4 day(s) ago
Sorry to write this in English, I didn't want to butcher the Japanese.

When I first read the Japanese I thought 'we' because, for whatever reason, I initially imagined that the complainer and the speaker were in a group of people. In that case, to sort of make the statement 'include' everybody in the group and make the image sillier, the speaker could say something like "If you really think it's that hot, why don't we all just take our clothes off? (Would *that* stop you complaining?)".

In that sort of retort, the speaker makes it sound like they are not sure what the complainer thinks will come about from their complaining. In other words, the complainer is being so unreasonable that, to everyone else, it almost sounds like he wants *them* (including the speaker) to do something about it, even if there's nothing that can be done about the heat. By suggesting something that would cool them down but is really ridiculous, the speaker is basically asking the complainer to be quiet and deal with the heat, as everybody else in the group is dealing with it without moaning.
tommy_san
4 day(s) ago
具体的にどういう文を念頭においていらっしゃいますか?
If it's that hot, how about we take off all our clothes? という文の意味はあまり分からないのですが。これは自然な文ですか? そうだとしたらこの場合暑いと感じているのは誰ですか?
lentlby
4 day(s) ago
わかりました。そういうわけで、「We」の意味を伝える場合、「俺たち」などが含まれていないとダメなんですか。
sharptoothed
4 day(s) ago
tommy_san
4 day(s) ago
句点をつけてください。
tommy_san
4 day(s) ago
これはどういう場面で使われる文でしょうか?
悩まされるのはいつですか?
tommy_san
4 day(s) ago
句点をつけてください。
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