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JimBreen
11 hours ago
Is 視野に入って correct? The idiom is usually 視野に入れる which would make it 視野に入れて.
CK
CK
yesterday
tommy_san,

This should be unlinked, right?

Don't make me kill you.

(See comments above.)
CK
CK
2 days ago - edited 2 days ago
Perhaps one of these would be a natural way to convey this idea in English.

Everyone, let's hug. / Let's all hug each other. / Let's all embrace each other.


This is apparently a Japanese translation of one line used in An die Freude (歓喜に寄せて).
(Beethoven's 9th Symphony)

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E...A8.B3.EF.BC.89

Seid umschlungen, Millionen!
抱き合おう、諸人よ!
tommy_san
2 days ago
たくさんの言語に訳していただいたので、文字数をまとめてみました。

(1 tweet)
[cmn] 中国語 #2794922 96字
[jpn] 日本語 #2684884 140字

(3 tweets)
[epo] エスペラント #2684953 338字/#2684912 377字
[eng] 英語 #2687863 365字
[pol] ポーランド語 #3808293 367字
[rus] ロシア語 #2689034 367字/#2688160 382字
[por] ポルトガル語 #2688632 380字
[spa] スペイン語 #2687952 388字
[dan] デンマーク語 #2684938 396字
[ita] イタリア語 #2803281 400字

(4 tweets)
[fra] フランス語 #3526165 430字
[deu] ドイツ語 #2684893 440字

みなさんの言語では何文字になるでしょうか?☺
bobby_87
3 days ago
My proposal for this sentence is the following translation:

"This sentence is being displayed by TATOEBA at random."
CK
CK
3 days ago
Tommy,

I wouldn't use the phrase "sleepless night" if I wanted to say "insomnia."

Here are two good sentence examples with that phrase.

[#2439255] Tom spent a sleepless night thinking of Mary. (CK) *audio*
[#3441967] Tom had bags under his eyes after several sleepless nights. (patgfisher)
arihato
3 days ago
上記に関しては全く異論が無いです。
日本語のニュアンスに関しては私の使い方/解釈と完全に一致していると思います。

従って、состязаниеが「試合」を意味するのであればtommy_sanの提示された日本語訳が適訳だと思います。

試しにсостязаниеを機械英訳にかけてみるとgameやraceではなくcompetitionでした。
Glutexo
3 days ago
Well, at least I am not the only one who finds this sentence strange. After reading your insights I think I finally realized how its pieces are related and why it means what it means. It’s actually more understandable than it looked like at the first (and twentieth) glance. Thanks for prodding me in a right direction! Worth it or not, 大成功だ!

Now rather leave it quickly before I start to be unsure again. :D
tommy_san
3 days ago
By the way, ときの should modify a noun.
If it were ときに, it should modify a verb (or an adjective). But neither 授業設計をするときに学生の思考を触発する nor 授業設計をするときに~理解する makes sense to me.

Let's just stop thinking about this sentence. It's obviously not worth it.
tommy_san
3 days ago
Japanese speakers very often put a comma in a strange place.

This comma seems to be an attempt to show that ときの doesn't modify 学生 (or 思考), but after reading it twenty times, I still haven't get it's structure. It seems that ときの modifies 選択および活用方法 (Does it mean "選択 & 活用方法" or "選択方法 & 活用方法"?). I understand that you choose メディア教材 during your 授業設計, but I think you use them rather during your 授業, not during your 授業設計...

Anyway, I believe this sentence was taken from a real syllabus. It looks very natural in some way.

In a real situation, you'll often face this kind of sentence, and you'll have to simply pretend to understand it.
sharptoothed
3 days ago
Thanks, Tommy! I hope my Russian translation matches the idea. :-)
tommy_san
3 days ago
Why don't I have an opportunity to sleep? Because my boss forces me to work all night? That's definitely a 徹夜.
tommy_san
3 days ago
ぼくもロシア語もドイツ語もそこまで細かいことは分からないので、まず日本語のニュアンスから確認しましょうか。

ぼくにとって「競争」というのは具体的なイベントではなくて、抽象的な「競り合っている状態」というイメージです。例えばある業界を一社が独占していたところに別の企業が入ってきたら、競争が始まったと言えるでしょう。

具体的なイベントとして思いつくのがとりあえず「大会」と「試合」です。「大会」は何日にも及ぶことがあって、例えばオリンピックも「大会」です。
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E...83%83%E3%82%AF
「大会」はいくつもの「試合」(あるいは他の何らかの勝負)から成っています。来年のオリンピックは8月5日に始まって8月21日に終わります。「大会」が始まる時を尋ねるには「いつ」「何日」「何時」のどれでも使えそうな気がします。

一方で「試合」が何日もかかることは多分あまりなくて、例えばサッカーの試合は7時に始まって9時に終わります。この場合、始まる時を聞く質問には「何時」を使うのが自然に感じます。

arihatoさんもこの理解でよろしいでしょうか? 他に関連する言葉を思いつきますか?
Glutexo
3 days ago - edited 3 days ago
Very strange usage of 、. Or maybe I would just expect ときに instead of ときの and because of that I don’t like the comma there. :)
sharptoothed
3 days ago
But, Tommy, do you call 徹夜 the situation when you don't have an opportunity to sleep thought you'd probably really like to?
tommy_san
3 days ago
@CK
The word "sleepless" reminds me of 不眠 (insomnia). Is this a correct association?

(When you're trying to sleep and cannot sleep, we don't call it 徹夜.)
tommy_san
3 days ago
Wow, I didn't expect CK would translate this. ☺
I thought it would go into his "not for my project" list.

Maybe we can have a variant with "once upon a time", too.
arihato
3 days ago
私はロシア語が解りませんが、英文を参照するとtommy_sanの訳の方が良さそうです。
(もしかするとドイツ語が既に「競争」に訳されてしまっているかも知れません。)
CK
CK
3 days ago
I think this is a pretty good description of the word.

徹夜(てつや)とは、夜通し寝ないで作業を続ける状態を指す。仕事、学業、娯楽など幅広い目的で徹夜となる場合がある。朝まで全く寝ない(一睡もしない)完全な徹夜を「完徹」(かんてつ)と表現することもある。http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%BE%B9%E5%A4%9C
sharptoothed
3 days ago - edited 3 days ago
What about other people who have a lot of things / troubles to deal with in the night?
CK
CK
3 days ago - edited 3 days ago
Students would say this if they were going to study all night.

To me, sleepless doesn't quite capture the meaning.

sharptoothed
3 days ago
Ones upon a time when Pluto was still a planet there was a boy named Tom.
?
sharptoothed
3 days ago
Looks like it will be a sleepless night today.
?
CK
CK
3 days ago
If I used this at the university talking to students, it would mean last period on Friday. Our campus doesn't have Saturday classes.

However, in other cases, I would mean Sunday night.

Why not ask Dejo what he thinks? He owns the English sentence.
tommy_san
3 days ago
I thought "the end of the week" would mean Sunday night. Does it mean Friday night?
CK
CK
3 days ago
Note HARUMI's email notifications are turned off, and the latest contribution is in 2008.

I think you can go ahead and make any needed corrections.

CK
CK
3 days ago
週末前 = before Friday night

We usually consider the weekend to start as soon as you get off work or out of school.

I suppose in the context of an office where the week's work ends on Friday, this could be used as a translation of the English. I'm not sure about the French.

CK
CK
3 days ago
In this case since there is already a translation of the Japanese into another languages, all we can do is unlink the English and the Japanese.
tommy_san
4 days ago
начать = 始める(他動詞)
начаться = 始まる(自動詞)

普通「競争」ではなく「試合」と言うと思います。

「試合はいつ始まりますか?」なら一応正しい訳になります。

個人的には「試合開始は何時ですか?」と言います。
tommy_san
4 days ago
@check translations

週末前 = before Saturday
tommy_san
4 days ago
ケーキ屋さんはお店のことですが、おいしいのはケーキ屋さんではなくてケーキです。
Ooneykcall
4 days ago - edited 4 days ago
The most closely related sentence would be "«Sun» signifie «soleil» en anglais.", I suppose, given that it basically contains the same information as the other one, i.e. that the English word "sun" and the French word "soleil" mean the same.)
tommy_san
4 days ago
I added a related sentence: #3804115. ("Soleil" means sun in French.)

I've long been thinking about a "related sentence" as a sister of a translation. My sentence above, in turn, cannot be translated into French, but when it's "linked" in some way to #1533795 "«Tatoeba» signifie «par exemple» en japonais", you'd probably get the information you want.
Ooneykcall
4 days ago - edited 4 days ago
I guess it doesn't make sense to translate these then - such sentences could not be adapted except by a complete change - and the best one can do is make a related non-translation and post a link in the comments.
tommy_san
4 days ago
Maybe we could "translate" it as "for example は英語で「例えば」という意味です", but then you'll start translating it as ""For example" signifas "ekzemple" en la angla", "'for example' обозначает 'например' по-английски" etc. and I'd hate it.

Somewhat related: #2703589
tommy_san
4 days ago
> 'Tatoeba' is a romanisation of 例えば
That's true, but I wouldn't call it a translation of the Chinese.
Ooneykcall
4 days ago
So this is a tautological sentence like "X means X"? Harumph.
(But it would probably make sense to say something like "'Tatoeba' is a romanisation of 例えば", would it?)
tommy_san
4 days ago
tommy_san
5 days ago
そんな感じです。

知って驚いたか、それか単純に知らなくて聞いているのかもしれません。
CK
CK
5 days ago
Perhaps an elementary school child would say something like one of these to a college student if he were surprised when he saw a college student doing homework.

Do you have homework in college, too?
Do they give you homework in college, too?

Is that the implication you're after?
tommy_san
5 days ago
Yes, and "Anything that is under CC-BY is compatible with CC-BY." I quoted it from the same page.
CK
CK
5 days ago
Anything that is under a license that has a "share alike" condition is NOT compatible with CC-BY. CC-BY-SA is not compatible with CC-BY. That means you can't copy text from Wikipedia into Tatoeba. But CC-BY is compatible with CC-BY-SA, so you may insert sentences from Tatoeba in Wikipedia, or Wikiquote for instance.

[snip]


Anything that is not under any license is not NOT compatible with CC-BY. If there's no license, it means by default that the author doesn't authorize re-use.

Anything that basically doesn't say "You can do absolutely whatever you want with this" is NOT compatible with CC-BY.
tommy_san
5 days ago
I don't see that anywhere in the article.

It must be theoretically possible for us to use CC BY sentences.

"If you want to import text that you have found elsewhere or that you have co-authored with others, you can only do so if it is available under terms that are compatible with the CC-BY
license.
If you import text under a compatible license which requires attribution, you must, in a reasonable fashion, credit the author(s). Where such credit is commonly given through sentence comments, it is sufficient to give attribution in the edit summary, which is recorded in the sentence history when importing the text."
(The terms of use)

The only (and a grave) problem is that this last sentence doesn't match the reality.
CK
CK
5 days ago
No. Because to use CC-BY, you have to give credit to another offsite writer.
Trang explains it fairly well in her blog post.
tommy_san
5 days ago
Why?
"Anything that is under CC-BY is compatible with CC-BY", right?
CK
CK
5 days ago - edited 5 days ago
>Is this text released under a CC BY license?

Even if it's released under CC BY, we can't have it here.

It has to be public domain.

See this page.

http://blog.tatoeba.org/2011/01...d-content.html
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