menu
Tatoeba
language
Register Log in
language English
menu
Tatoeba

chevron_right Register

chevron_right Log in

Browse

chevron_right Show random sentence

chevron_right Browse by language

chevron_right Browse by list

chevron_right Browse by tag

chevron_right Browse audio

Community

chevron_right Wall

chevron_right List of all members

chevron_right Languages of members

chevron_right Native speakers

search
clear
swap_horiz
search

Sentence #118238

info_outline Metadata
warning
Your sentence was not added because the following already exists.
Sentence #{{vm.sentence.id}} — belongs to {{vm.sentence.user.username}} Sentence #{{vm.sentence.id}}
{{vm.sentence.furigana.info_message}} {{vm.sentence.text}}
star This sentence belongs to a native speaker.
warning This sentence is not reliable.
content_copy Copy sentence info Go to sentence page
subdirectory_arrow_right
warning
{{transcription.info_message}}
Translations
Unlink this translation link Make into direct translation chevron_right
{{translation.furigana.info_message}} {{translation.text}} Existing sentence #{{::translation.id}} has been added as a translation.
edit Edit this translation
warning This sentence is not reliable.
content_copy Copy sentence info Go to sentence page
subdirectory_arrow_right
warning
{{transcription.info_message}}
Translations of translations
Unlink this translation link Make into direct translation chevron_right
{{translation.furigana.info_message}} {{translation.text}} Existing sentence #{{::translation.id}} has been added as a translation.
edit Edit this translation
warning This sentence is not reliable.
content_copy Copy sentence info Go to sentence page
subdirectory_arrow_right
warning
{{transcription.info_message}}
{{vm.expandableIcon}} {{vm.sentence.expandLabel}} Fewer translations

Comments

KK_kaku_ KK_kaku_ July 8, 2022 July 8, 2022 at 7:31:56 AM UTC link Permalink

英文とのリンクを削除しました。
[#466236] All of us went except for him.
[#466241] All of us, except him, went.

KK_kaku_ KK_kaku_ July 8, 2022 July 8, 2022 at 8:19:05 AM UTC link Permalink

@CK
"彼のほかに私たち皆が行った" means "He and all of us went."

RobinS RobinS February 19, 2023, edited February 19, 2023 February 19, 2023 at 1:06:15 PM UTC, edited February 19, 2023 at 1:07:50 PM UTC link Permalink

I think this Tanaka Corpus sentence pair has created a bit of a mess.

The Japanese is presumably a translation from the English, but the English sentence ("All of us went besides him") is awkward and ambiguous. Although the basic meaning of "besides" is "in addition to", most people would read it as "All of us went except for him".

The translations into other languages (with the exception of Japanese) appear to be based on this interpretation as well.

The "in addition to" interpretation doesn't feel right because "all of us" would ordinarily already include "him". It's more natural to say something like "All of us went, including him".

I think it might be best to delete the English sentence and change the Japanese to "彼以外に私たち皆が行った" (or whatever sounds most natural).

@JimBreen, could I also hear your thoughts on this?

Cabo Cabo February 19, 2023, edited February 19, 2023 February 19, 2023 at 5:27:16 PM UTC, edited February 19, 2023 at 5:28:37 PM UTC link Permalink

We all went with him. ?
probably he asked to check out a new place, and we (as a group) decided to follow him and check out that new place, too

JimBreen JimBreen February 20, 2023 February 20, 2023 at 12:49:21 AM UTC link Permalink

Yes, a mess. Maybe just changing the English to "We all went as well as him" would be best, but as you say the other languages seem to derive from the other interpretation. I'll add that as an alternative, and maybe someone can unlink the other.

Metadata

close

Lists

Sentence text

License: CC BY 2.0 FR

Logs

We cannot determine yet whether this sentence was initially derived from translation or not.

linked by an unknown member, date unknown

彼のほかに私たち皆が行った。

added by an unknown member, date unknown

linked by CK, August 17, 2010

linked by CK, August 17, 2010

linked by Espi, August 17, 2010

linked by Espi, August 17, 2010

linked by zipangu, June 3, 2011

unlinked by KK_kaku_, July 8, 2022

unlinked by KK_kaku_, July 8, 2022

linked by JimBreen, February 20, 2023