menu
Tatoeba
language
Register Log in
language English
menu
Tatoeba

chevron_right Register

chevron_right Log in

Browse

chevron_right Show random sentence

chevron_right Browse by language

chevron_right Browse by list

chevron_right Browse by tag

chevron_right Browse audio

Community

chevron_right Wall

chevron_right List of all members

chevron_right Languages of members

chevron_right Native speakers

search
clear
swap_horiz
search

Sentence #1436051

info_outline Metadata
warning
Your sentence was not added because the following already exists.
Sentence #{{vm.sentence.id}} — belongs to {{vm.sentence.user.username}} Sentence #{{vm.sentence.id}}
{{vm.sentence.furigana.info_message}} {{vm.sentence.text}}
star This sentence belongs to a native speaker.
warning This sentence is not reliable.
content_copy Copy sentence info Go to sentence page
subdirectory_arrow_right
warning
{{transcription.info_message}}
Translations
Unlink this translation link Make into direct translation chevron_right
{{translation.furigana.info_message}} {{translation.text}} Existing sentence #{{::translation.id}} has been added as a translation.
edit Edit this translation
warning This sentence is not reliable.
content_copy Copy sentence info Go to sentence page
subdirectory_arrow_right
warning
{{transcription.info_message}}
Translations of translations
Unlink this translation link Make into direct translation chevron_right
{{translation.furigana.info_message}} {{translation.text}} Existing sentence #{{::translation.id}} has been added as a translation.
edit Edit this translation
warning This sentence is not reliable.
content_copy Copy sentence info Go to sentence page
subdirectory_arrow_right
warning
{{transcription.info_message}}
{{vm.expandableIcon}} {{vm.sentence.expandLabel}} Fewer translations

Comments

Silja Silja November 21, 2014 November 21, 2014 at 12:49:26 PM UTC link Permalink

I just wonder if one of these would be a better way to end this sentence:

洗いたかった --> 洗いたがった (洗いたい + がる + past tense)
or
洗いたかった --> 洗いたかったでしょう

Now it seems quite straightforward to me.

tommy_san tommy_san November 21, 2014 November 21, 2014 at 1:01:25 PM UTC link Permalink

You can use this sentence if you're writing a story.

http://www.aozora.gr.jp/cards/0...223_28386.html
彼は取るにも足らない良心の脅迫を軽蔑したかった。
http://www.aozora.gr.jp/cards/0...903_13370.html
灸は弁当を下げたかった。早くオルガンを聴きながら唱歌を唄ってみたかった。
http://www.aozora.gr.jp/cards/0...718_22926.html
この秦啓源を、星野は文学に復帰させたかったのである。彼の詩は中国文学に一つの生気を齎すであろうと、そう考えた。そして彼を文化活動の表面へ誘致したかった。彼のような能才を市井に潜没させておくのは、惜しみても余りあることだ。星野は、一種の在野文化使節としての使命から、また文学者同士の友情から、彼に逢いたかった。

Silja Silja November 21, 2014 November 21, 2014 at 1:32:38 PM UTC link Permalink

Ah, great!

Could you please add also a Japanese translation that is something you can say aloud when you speak?

tommy_san tommy_san November 21, 2014 November 21, 2014 at 2:13:03 PM UTC link Permalink

I'd love to, but I'm not sure how I should translate it.
When I speak Japanese, I rarely end a sentence with た that means the past, because that sounds very abrupt.
I might say トムが手洗いたがってたよ. That would mean that I know that Tom wanted to wash hands shortly before and perhaps still now, so the addressee should take him somewhere and let him wash hands. I don't feel like adding it without an annotation.
There must be many other possibilities, but in most cases, I don't think I'd put a period here when I speak Japanese.
トムが手洗いたいって言うんだけどさ、そんな山の中で手洗える場所とかあるわけないじゃん? だから我慢しなさいって言ったんだけど、いやだ今洗いたいって……

A sentence in spoken Japanese tends to be very long. Therefore, when we try to translate a short sentence into Japanese, it often happens that the only comfortable way to translate it is to translate into written Japanese. That's why more than 3/4 of the Japanese sentences in Tatoeba are written in the written language. There are also lots of sentences that look like the spoken Japanese but are actually different from the way people actually speak. People in novels, dramas and animes often speak that way.

This is not a problem by itself, but when people try to learn to speak Japanese using Tatoeba sentences, the result would be laughable. And I believe it's difficult even for intermediate learners to distinguish different styles of Japanese.

al_ex_an_der al_ex_an_der November 21, 2014, edited November 21, 2014 November 21, 2014 at 2:21:51 PM UTC, edited November 21, 2014 at 2:27:57 PM UTC link Permalink

"A sentence in spoken Japanese tends to be very long."
Oh, das ist überraschend. Mir scheint, im Deutschen ist es umgekehrt.
The best way to write a good German text, is to imitate the sentence length and syntactic simplicity of the spoken language, I would say. ☺

And whenever I can, I try to avoid to write "something I can't say aloud when I speak" (even more: something that does not flow easily over the tongue).
But of course, that's what I do in German and Esperanto, the languages where I feel "at home". Unfortunately I know nothing about Japanese. :(

tommy_san tommy_san November 21, 2014 November 21, 2014 at 2:37:37 PM UTC link Permalink

Vielleicht ist es besser zu sagen, dass ein gesprochener japanischer Satz dazu neigt, nicht wirklich zu enden. Es kann manchmal zu unhöflich klingen, wenn man beim Sprechen einen Punkt setzt! Wenn ich Englisch und Deutsch spreche, verwundre ich mich darüber, wie ruhig ich einen punkt setzen kann.

al_ex_an_der al_ex_an_der November 21, 2014, edited November 21, 2014 November 21, 2014 at 2:52:14 PM UTC, edited November 21, 2014 at 2:54:25 PM UTC link Permalink

Aha. Darüber muss ich nachdenken.
Bisher habe ich noch nie über dieses "Beim-Sprechen-einen-Punkt-setzen" nachgedacht. Das scheint mir unbewusst und mühelos zu gelingen. Wenn ich aber jetzt beginne, mir das bewusst zu machen, fürchte ich fast, es wird mir in Zukunft nie mehr gelingen, einen Gedanken abzuschließen und einen Punkt zu setzen, denn denkt nicht unser Gehirn ständig und unaufhörlich weiter, und sollte ich nicht – dem Beispiel der Japaner folgend – um Höflichkeit bemüht, einen zu plötzlichen Abbruch meines Gedankenflusses zu vermeiden suchend, dem Beispiel unseres unvergessenen Thomas Mann folgen und — Halt! Was wollte ich sagen? Ich habe es vergessen. Du siehst, ich bin gar nicht in der Lage, lange Sätze zu denken. Die begrenzte Speicherkapazität meines Gehirns lässt dies nicht zu.

Metadata

close

Lists

Sentence text

License: CC BY 2.0 FR

Logs

This sentence was initially added as a translation of sentence #1436014Tom quería lavarse las manos..

トムは手を洗いたかった。

added by marcelostockle, February 15, 2012

linked by marcelostockle, February 15, 2012

linked by marcelostockle, February 15, 2012

linked by Silja, November 21, 2014

unlinked by Silja, November 21, 2014