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Sentence #146715

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Comments

small_snow small_snow March 15, 2025, edited March 15, 2025 March 15, 2025 at 10:19:38 PM UTC, edited March 15, 2025 at 10:33:33 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Hi, @terrywallwork
When I first saw the 水に漬かった, I thought you were wrong.
But now I know you are right.

参考URL:
https://salon.mainichi-kotoba.j...81%99%E3%80%82

However, I agree with the last part of the above article. In this sentence, I would have written “水につかった” in hiragana.

Thanks for your contribution. I've learned a lot today, too.

DJ_Saidez DJ_Saidez March 16, 2025 March 16, 2025 at 7:41:12 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Also, since it's a Tanaka Corpus sentence, aren't there restrictions on how sentences can be edited?

terrywallwork terrywallwork March 16, 2025 March 16, 2025 at 5:58:46 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

@DJ_Saidez Im not sure on the Tanaka Corpus rules, but I made a copy of the original and altered that, as I didn't think the original needed altering for the translation it had linked to it but it did seem that the Kanji version should also be there.

@small_snow Thanks, just to be clear I don't think the original Japanese sentence is wrong I just figured the Kanji version should be there also. Also thanks for the link. So it is an odd situation where the official dictionaries say use the Kanji but everyone else says they use hiragana?

small_snow small_snow March 20, 2025, edited March 20, 2025 March 20, 2025 at 9:25:13 AM UTC, edited March 20, 2025 at 10:51:26 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

>So it is an odd situation where the official dictionaries say use the Kanji but everyone else says they use hiragana?

結構よくあることだと思う。この場合に限っては、
「漬かる」は「漬物(つけもの)」をイメージさせるのに対して
「浸かる」は「浸水(しんすい)」をイメージさせるけど常用外漢字。
じゃぁ、無難に「つかる」にしよう。という流れです。

全くの余談ですが、日本人の私として「ひざまで水に漬かった」と言われると「ひざまで=ふくろはぎあたりまで=大根足=大根」が連想されます。そして「漬かる=漬物」になると「大根を漬物にしたもの=沢庵(たくあん)」が連想されます。

そうすると「ちょっと待って、それて『漬かる』じゃなくて『浸かる』もしくは『つかる』だよね?」と思ってしまうのだと思います。言葉足らずだとは思いますが。

漢字とひらがなの使い分けという意味で言うと「ありがとうございます」も同じような感じです。「有り難うございます」という漢字表現はあるけど「ありがとうございます」とひらがなで書くのが一般的なのは「ひらがなで書いた方が気持ちが伝わる」という文化的な背景があるのは興味深いと思います。


> Im not sure on the Tanaka Corpus rules,
右上のTagに「TanakaCorpus」と書かれている文については、むやみやたらに変更されない方がいいと思います。:)


https://jp.indeed.com/career-ad...82%93%E3%80%82

漢字にすることも大切だと思うけど、同じぐらいひらがなも大切だと思います。

JimBreen JimBreen March 23, 2025 March 23, 2025 at 12:28:58 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Just adding to the discussion on a couple of aspects:
- the JE dictionaries such as the 新和英大辞典第5版 use hiragana in examples for 浸かる/漬かる
- 6 of the 8 sentences in the Tanaka corpus used hiragana. The other two use 浸かる.
- the evidence from the Google n-grams is that people are actually using kanji more often:
水につかって 9382
水に浸かって 21759
水に漬かって 1552
海水につかる 533
海水に浸かる 996
海水に漬かる 61

If this sentence is to use the kanji form, I think 浸かる is more appropriate.

terrywallwork terrywallwork March 23, 2025 March 23, 2025 at 11:09:50 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

@JimBreen Thanks updated. Also thanks to everyone else.

small_snow small_snow March 23, 2025, edited March 23, 2025 March 23, 2025 at 1:13:19 PM UTC, edited March 23, 2025 at 1:20:59 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

@terrywallwork

>漢字にすることも大切だと思うけど、同じぐらいひらがなも大切だと思います。

私のコメントを完全に無視されたことに絶望する。

JimBreen JimBreen March 23, 2025 March 23, 2025 at 7:21:16 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

> 私のコメントを完全に無視されたことに絶望する。

My preference would be to leave the sentence as it was originally.

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License: CC BY 2.0 FR

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少女はひざまで水につかった。

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少女はひざまで水に漬かった。

edited by terrywallwork, March 15, 2025

少女はひざまで水に浸かった。

edited by terrywallwork, March 23, 2025