menu
Tatoeba
language
Register Log in
language English
menu
Tatoeba

chevron_right Register

chevron_right Log in

Browse

chevron_right Show random sentence

chevron_right Browse by language

chevron_right Browse by list

chevron_right Browse by tag

chevron_right Browse audio

Community

chevron_right Wall

chevron_right List of all members

chevron_right Languages of members

chevron_right Native speakers

search
clear
swap_horiz
search

Sentence #20225

info_outline Metadata
warning
Your sentence was not added because the following already exists.
Sentence #{{vm.sentence.id}} — belongs to {{vm.sentence.user.username}} Sentence #{{vm.sentence.id}}
{{vm.sentence.furigana.info_message}} {{vm.sentence.text}}
star This sentence belongs to a native speaker.
warning This sentence is not reliable.
content_copy Copy sentence info Go to sentence page
subdirectory_arrow_right
warning
{{transcription.info_message}}
Translations
Unlink this translation link Make into direct translation chevron_right
{{translation.furigana.info_message}} {{translation.text}} Existing sentence #{{::translation.id}} has been added as a translation.
edit Edit this translation
warning This sentence is not reliable.
content_copy Copy sentence info Go to sentence page
subdirectory_arrow_right
warning
{{transcription.info_message}}
Translations of translations
Unlink this translation link Make into direct translation chevron_right
{{translation.furigana.info_message}} {{translation.text}} Existing sentence #{{::translation.id}} has been added as a translation.
edit Edit this translation
warning This sentence is not reliable.
content_copy Copy sentence info Go to sentence page
subdirectory_arrow_right
warning
{{transcription.info_message}}
{{vm.expandableIcon}} {{vm.sentence.expandLabel}} Fewer translations

Comments

sacredceltic sacredceltic February 4, 2012 February 4, 2012 at 1:02:01 PM UTC link Permalink

added tag "controversial"

Scott Scott February 4, 2012 February 4, 2012 at 4:04:49 PM UTC link Permalink

I don't think that either the "lie" or "controversial" tags are appropriate here. This is a statement. It could be Tom saying to Mary: "We must observe the rules." (and then Mary replies "No way Tom, go to hell!") There's nothing controversial about it. It's a simple statement.

sacredceltic sacredceltic February 4, 2012 February 4, 2012 at 4:08:43 PM UTC link Permalink

everything is a simple statement, then...

Scott Scott February 4, 2012 February 4, 2012 at 4:18:12 PM UTC link Permalink

Not everything. If I say, "All birds are not mammals.", that's a universal statement.

sacredceltic sacredceltic February 4, 2012 February 4, 2012 at 4:19:50 PM UTC link Permalink

"we must observe the rules" sounds to me like a universal statement that dictators should love...

Scott Scott February 4, 2012 February 4, 2012 at 4:21:55 PM UTC link Permalink

If you think that it's controversial, I don't really mind.

sacredceltic sacredceltic February 4, 2012 February 4, 2012 at 10:14:35 PM UTC link Permalink

Yep...

marcelostockle marcelostockle February 4, 2012 February 4, 2012 at 10:21:19 PM UTC link Permalink

I don't understand how can this be controversial, much less a lie, when "We" might refer to any group of existing or unexisting subjects.
@sacredceltic: If you're going to tag another person's sentence as "Lie" or "controversial", I would ask you to wait first for that user's agreement, or at least explain the reasons to it, which are not "sounds to me like a universal statement that dictators should love..."

sacredceltic sacredceltic February 4, 2012 February 4, 2012 at 10:31:20 PM UTC link Permalink

I'm sorry but I'm not going to do this.Rules should not be changed all the time.
The former rule was that advanced contributors may tag.
The new rule is that they must comment that they do so, and I agreed to that.

marcelostockle marcelostockle February 4, 2012 February 4, 2012 at 11:52:22 PM UTC link Permalink

@sacredceltic: I don't make the rules, nor I am any kind of ruler. What I'm asking is for a little courtesy when tagging a user's contribution as a lie, but it seems I'm asking too much.

sacredceltic sacredceltic February 5, 2012 February 5, 2012 at 11:35:22 AM UTC link Permalink

That has nothing to do with courtesy but with your conception, totally subjective, of what is a sentence and what is a tag. Sentences are not sacred cows and are a public expression that are never neutral and often illustrate it's author's agenda. They're propaganda and are often lies and controversial, but many people don't realise it because people tend to take things for granted. It's good to open their eyes...
Tags, on the other side, are no desecration and do not belong to sentences owners but to the public. Sentences owners are no better judge of what applies to their sentences.
I sometimes wrote things myself of which I hadn't realised all the implications. Tags made me see it. Sentences escape their authors and that is good.

To me, keeping people blind and mute is not courteous, it is just slavish. Your kind of courtesy is good for lambs. I'm a human being.

Scott Scott February 5, 2012 February 5, 2012 at 5:15:00 PM UTC link Permalink

These sentences were originally written by students. See http://www.edrdg.org/wiki/index.php/Tanaka_Corpus I doubt they had a big agenda.

sacredceltic sacredceltic February 5, 2012 February 5, 2012 at 5:38:40 PM UTC link Permalink

Agendas are sometimes subconscious. Some people are more subservient and conformist, others are more rebelious. That's the controversy. The fact that you are unaware that something you write is controversial doesn't make it less so.

Metadata

close

Sentence text

License: CC BY 2.0 FR

Audio

by {{audio.author}}

License: {{vm.getLicenseName(audio.license)}} {{vm.getLicenseName(audio.license)}}

Logs

We cannot determine yet whether this sentence was initially derived from translation or not.

We must observe the rules.

added by an unknown member, date unknown

linked by an unknown member, date unknown

linked by sacredceltic, October 11, 2010

linked by martinod, July 1, 2011

linked by sacredceltic, July 1, 2011

linked by duran, December 10, 2011

linked by fanty, June 3, 2012

linked by eirik174, December 6, 2013

linked by shanghainese, April 2, 2015

linked by shanghainese, April 2, 2015

#4763038

linked by marafon, December 13, 2015

linked by Yorwba, November 18, 2019

#8429781

linked by Elsofie, January 5, 2020

linked by Elsofie, January 5, 2020

#8429781

unlinked by Elsofie, January 5, 2020