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Sentence #327658

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Comments

blay_paul blay_paul November 19, 2010 November 19, 2010 at 5:53:10 PM UTC link Permalink

I'm a bit dubious of this as a translation of the Japanese.

AlanF_US AlanF_US October 26, 2022 October 26, 2022 at 4:30:15 PM UTC link Permalink

Please check Japanese translation.

@small_snow
@Pfirsichbaeumchen
@KK_kaku_
@CK

small_snow small_snow October 26, 2022, edited October 27, 2022 October 26, 2022 at 11:42:54 PM UTC, edited October 27, 2022 at 10:35:11 AM UTC link Permalink

I'm not good at translating "should", but...

>[#76060] 自分でもわかってるくせに。
>I'm a bit dubious of this as a translation of the Japanese.
+1

I think [#76060] means the followings:
- [#2376574] I know you know.
- [#1687475] I know that you know.

I would like to hear their opinion, @Pfirsichbaeumchen, @KK_kaku_, @CK

In addition, I have a question, @AlanF_US
Is this one natural? or not?
- I think you know it yourself.
- I'm sure you know it.

DJ_Saidez DJ_Saidez October 26, 2022 October 26, 2022 at 11:56:02 PM UTC link Permalink

My opinion only, and I'm not the best judge, but
I think this is ambiguous, and natural

It can mean
-You need to know it.
-I think you know it.

I'm not sure why, but those are the interpretations I feel
I'll wait for Alan to confirm though

CK CK October 27, 2022 October 27, 2022 at 9:13:26 AM UTC link Permalink

> I'm a bit dubious of this as a translation of the Japanese.
> 自分でもわかってるくせに。
> You should know it.

I think if I thought about this long enough, I could likely come up with a situation in which they would match. However, nothing clearly pops into my mind at this time.

small_snow small_snow October 27, 2022, edited October 27, 2022 October 27, 2022 at 9:42:01 AM UTC, edited October 27, 2022 at 9:55:27 AM UTC link Permalink

@Pfirsichbaeumchen

I also think this pairing is OK.
[#327658] You should know it.
[#1452344] 知っておくべきだよ。

@CK
I'll think about it together, too. Please give me some hints.
Below you will find a link to Eijiro.
What number does should mean in this sentence? (3)?

https://eow.alc.co.jp/search?q=should

small_snow small_snow October 27, 2022 October 27, 2022 at 10:04:04 AM UTC link Permalink

Or, if @CK says that this link is fine, we can leave it to him. :)

AlanF_US AlanF_US October 27, 2022, edited October 27, 2022 October 27, 2022 at 11:03:34 PM UTC, edited October 27, 2022 at 11:05:32 PM UTC link Permalink

As the Google dictionary says, "should" can have two meanings, indicating duty or probability:

:::
1.
- used to indicate obligation, duty, or correctness, typically when criticizing someone's actions.
-- "he should have been careful"
- indicating a desirable or expected state.
-- "by now students should be able to read with a large degree of independence"
- used to give or ask advice or suggestions.
-- "you should go back to bed"
- used to give advice.
-- "I should hold out if I were you"
2.
- used to indicate what is probable.
-- "$348 million should be enough to buy him out"
:::

So "You should know it" could mean either that the listener has a duty to know something, or just that the listener probably knows it. This agrees with DJ_Saidez's interpretation.

>> In addition, I have a question, @AlanF_US
>> Is this one natural? or not?
>> - I think you know it yourself.
>> - I'm sure you know it.

Yes, these are both natural sentences. One could also omit "it":

:::
- I think you know yourself.
- I'm sure you know.
:::

The first sentence in that pair then becomes ambiguous, with the possible meaning that the speaker thinks the listener has a knowledge of him- or herself, but it's still valid. (There are various ways to reword the sentence to eliminate the ambiguity.)

These sentences capture the "probability" meaning of "should".

small_snow small_snow October 28, 2022 October 28, 2022 at 3:26:14 AM UTC link Permalink

@AlanF_US
Thank you for your detailed explanation. I would like to overcome "Should", so based on your comments, I'll focus on translating "Should" for a while.

Please let me know if you notice my mistakes, @Pfirsichbaeumchen, @DJ_Saidez, and Everyone.

Also, to Lisa,

>To me it sounds like something someone would say when they're upset, "You know that yourself/you know that very well (and still you act like you don't).

I think so. When I heard 自分でもわかってるくせに, I would think the speaker is upset with me. Also, I often use "くせに" when I'm upset.

Pfirsichbaeumchen Pfirsichbaeumchen October 28, 2022 October 28, 2022 at 5:41:17 AM UTC link Permalink

Hi, everyone.

I went ahead and unlinked the sentence with くせに because it sounds angry while the English does not. Hope you're all OK with it. I suppose we can leave the other one and remove the tag, but the honour should be Alan's. 😊

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You should know it,,,

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You should know it.

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