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Sentence #4737352

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sharptoothed sharptoothed December 1, 2015 December 1, 2015 at 10:08:38 AM UTC link Permalink

Русское предложение изменилось. Вероятно, француский перевод тоже следует изменить.

tommy_san tommy_san December 1, 2015 December 1, 2015 at 10:23:09 AM UTC link Permalink

Dima, "жить" means "to live" and "мучительно" is an adjective, right? "Durement" in this translation is an adverb. I wonder if it matches the Russian.

sharptoothed sharptoothed December 1, 2015, edited December 1, 2015 December 1, 2015 at 10:27:07 AM UTC, edited December 1, 2015 at 10:32:03 AM UTC link Permalink

Tommy, here "мучительно" is an adverb, too. This word can be a short adjective (used as predicate) as well, but not in such situation.

sharptoothed sharptoothed December 1, 2015, edited December 1, 2015 December 1, 2015 at 10:30:24 AM UTC, edited December 1, 2015 at 10:32:26 AM UTC link Permalink

Oh, there are two "мучительно" in the Russian. The first one is an adverb and the second one is a predicate short adjective. :-)

tommy_san tommy_san December 1, 2015, edited December 1, 2015 December 1, 2015 at 10:51:59 AM UTC, edited December 1, 2015 at 12:30:22 PM UTC link Permalink

Oh, really? But I'm still not sure if this matches.

I understand "Pourquoi vivre si durement" as "Why do I (have to) live such a hard life" and "Почему жить так мучительно" as "Why is it so hard to live". Maybe I take both wrong, though.

@marafon, may I have your opinion?

sharptoothed sharptoothed December 1, 2015, edited December 1, 2015 December 1, 2015 at 10:53:38 AM UTC, edited December 1, 2015 at 10:55:27 AM UTC link Permalink

Unfortunately, I don't understand French at all. Let's wait for Marina.
You understood the Russian perfectly, by the way. :-)

Wezel Wezel December 1, 2015 December 1, 2015 at 11:22:18 AM UTC link Permalink

I feel like "Pourquoi vivre si durement" corresponds to "Зачем так мучительно жить", although it sounds a bit weird, in Russian at least. "Почему жить так мучительно" in French would be something like "Pourquoi est-ce si dure à vivre" or, better perhaps, "Pourquoi la vie est-elle si dure".

tommy_san tommy_san December 1, 2015 December 1, 2015 at 12:22:03 PM UTC link Permalink

Dima, it seems we were confused by the word "adverb".
Let me ask this way. Am I right to assume that "Почему жить так мучительно" means "Why *is* жить so мучительно"?

sharptoothed sharptoothed December 1, 2015 December 1, 2015 at 12:32:38 PM UTC link Permalink

I think you're right. We can get rid of verbs and adverbs and produce the following equivalent phrase: Почему жизнь так мучительна ~ Why life is so painful.

Wezel Wezel December 1, 2015, edited December 1, 2015 December 1, 2015 at 12:40:14 PM UTC, edited December 1, 2015 at 12:41:31 PM UTC link Permalink

I think "мучительно" in "жить мучительно" is a категория состояния.
http://padeji.ru/morfologiya/ka...ak-chast-rechi

Basically, they look like adverbs but act as predicates.

sharptoothed sharptoothed December 1, 2015 December 1, 2015 at 12:46:10 PM UTC link Permalink

> I think "мучительно" here is a категория состояния.

That's really possible indeed. Though it will confuse most of learners and a lot of native speakers, too. :-)

marafon marafon December 1, 2015, edited December 1, 2015 December 1, 2015 at 12:54:25 PM UTC, edited December 1, 2015 at 1:34:30 PM UTC link Permalink

@tommy_san
You're right.

Почему жить так мучительно? = Pourquoi vivre est-il si dur (pénible / douloureux) ?

Wezel Wezel December 1, 2015 December 1, 2015 at 12:58:33 PM UTC link Permalink

> Though it will confuse most of learners
> and a lot of native speakers, too. :-)

Well, life is hard. :) As for native speakers, I think they touch this subject at school nowadays, at least we did. Although that doesn’t mean most of them won’t be confused, of course. :P

sharptoothed sharptoothed December 1, 2015 December 1, 2015 at 1:00:55 PM UTC link Permalink

2Wezel
You really did study category of state, predicate words and stuff at school? Lucky you! :-)

Wezel Wezel December 1, 2015, edited December 1, 2015 December 1, 2015 at 1:04:35 PM UTC, edited December 1, 2015 at 1:07:03 PM UTC link Permalink

I’m not sure about predicate words, but we definitely had category of state. ^^' In, like, 8th or 9th grade.

sharptoothed sharptoothed December 1, 2015 December 1, 2015 at 1:17:40 PM UTC link Permalink

Actually, I don't remember if we had studied those topics at school. I have to check my ancient textbooks. :-D

Ooneykcall Ooneykcall December 1, 2015 December 1, 2015 at 7:26:54 PM UTC link Permalink

Люди постарше могли не изучать в школе категорию состояния, потому что выделение её в отдельную часть речи ещё не стало мэйнстримом ;) (традиционное изложение рассматривало её как разновидность наречия)

marafon marafon December 26, 2015 December 26, 2015 at 2:33:16 PM UTC link Permalink

Pourquoi vivre si durement > Pourquoi vivre est-il si dur
?

nimfeo nimfeo December 30, 2015 December 30, 2015 at 9:04:46 AM UTC link Permalink

Pas de réaction depuis plus de 15 jours. Phrase modifiée.

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License: CC BY 2.0 FR