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Sentence #649903

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arihato arihato December 5, 2010 December 5, 2010 at 1:25:26 AM UTC link Permalink

simsa lo ponjo
http://tatoeba.org/jpn/sentences/show/649895

Zifre Zifre December 5, 2010 December 5, 2010 at 1:27:08 AM UTC link Permalink

lo jbini be loi valsi cu clani

.i na nitcu zo su'o

arihato arihato December 5, 2010 December 5, 2010 at 1:43:51 AM UTC link Permalink

"An" is not "su'o" ?

Zifre Zifre December 5, 2010 December 5, 2010 at 2:01:39 AM UTC link Permalink

pe'anai zo'oi an xe se fanva zo pa

.i le glico jufra cu se smuni pe'a lo du'u lo nazbi be ba'e lo'e xanto cu clani .i zo su'o na ni'i sarcu

tijlan tijlan December 8, 2010 December 8, 2010 at 3:30:55 PM UTC link Permalink

数の明示を伴わない <su'o> は <少なくとも幾つかの> を意味します。 つまり自然言語一般における複数を表すのに使えるものです。 <su'o lo xanto> とその省略形 <su'o xanto> は <elephants> に最も近い訳です。 一方の <an elephant> をそのまま訳すなら <pa (lo) xanto> です。 ただしこれだと <1匹の象は鼻が長い> という特定的な表現になり、目的の総称的な文意と違います。 英語の <an> の曖昧さのせいです。 ロジバンの <lo> は文脈に応じて単数にも複数にも対応できるので、総称表現は <lo xanto> で間に合います。

英語の直訳としてなら <ponse> でも良いですが、観点を変えれば次のようにも捉えられます ―

lo xanto cu se nazbi lo clani
(象は長い鼻を具える)

lo xanto zo'u lo nazbi cu clani
(象というのは、鼻が長い)

lo xanto zo'u nazbi clani
(象というのは、鼻長である)

後者2つの <zo'u> は日本語の主題標識 <は> を訳すのにうってつけです。

arihato arihato December 9, 2010 December 9, 2010 at 2:04:18 PM UTC link Permalink

ありがとうございます。
この文章は649895と合わせてロジバンがいかに原文の情報を欠落させる事なく翻訳できるかを示すと同時に日本語、英語の違いを示すのが目的でした。
従って、ある意味では<pa xanto>が私の書きたかったロジバン文でもあるようですが、むしろ直訳過ぎて情報欠落になっている気がしますので<lo xanto>に変更することにしたいと思います。

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License: CC BY 2.0 FR

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This sentence was initially added as a translation of sentence #268258An elephant has a long nose..

su'o lo xanto cu ponse lo clani nazbi

added by arihato, December 5, 2010

linked by arihato, December 5, 2010

su'o lo xanto cu ponse lo clani nazbi

edited by arihato, December 5, 2010

lo xanto cu ponse lo clani nazbi

edited by arihato, December 9, 2010

linked by nonong, October 13, 2012

lo xanto cu se ke clani nazbi

edited by gleki, July 29, 2013