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sysko {{ icon }} keyboard_arrow_right

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sysko's messages on the Wall (total 1,397)

sysko sysko August 29, 2017 August 29, 2017 at 10:26:44 PM UTC link Permalink

> This machine has half the spec of the previous one, but weirdly enough it seems to perform just fine. Keeping a look nonetheless!

according to google analytics, there's hasn't been much traffic this last two days :(

sysko sysko August 14, 2015 August 14, 2015 at 9:03:44 PM UTC link Permalink

I agree with you on that,

I proposed on github and the wall, without any response on both :( , to separate the level and nativeness , i.e to still have the level and a checkbox native/not native (or something more contrasted if people feel the urge)

as you said, one can be a professional United Nation translator from French to English (and so with a high academic level in English but not native) while an other can be a an american car-wash employe

one will sometimes make "perfect" sentence that nobody says and the other will make mistake that everybody does.

I agree also that nativeness , as currently it's not verified, should not be promoted that much for the time being.

sysko sysko August 7, 2015 August 7, 2015 at 9:36:56 PM UTC link Permalink

Feature requests:

When one post a message on the wall

1. when the message get posted, we should directly got the button to edit/delete/link to it so that we don't need to refresh the page

2. if the session has expired, in addition to the message "your session has expired" it would be great to get the original message back too so that one can copy paste it rather than getting stab in the back and to lose the message.

sysko sysko August 7, 2015, edited August 7, 2015 August 7, 2015 at 9:25:30 PM UTC, edited August 7, 2015 at 9:27:51 PM UTC link Permalink

Interesting remark. I think here come the question of drawing the line to have an easy definition vs. a complex one that brings more precise data.

I would say when making the decision one can't impersonate himself as being of another linguistic group, and we consider other factor (sex/age/mood/location) as being "change-able" and the female/male young/old formal/informal distinction to be expressed by the mean of the "tags" feature.

In order to improve the chance of people understanding the feature, the very first time one click on it , we could pop a short text "by clicking this, you mean that you would say it regardless of your age/sex/mood" (or something phrased better of course)

After I think Saeb made an insightful comment regarding how to treat the unavoidable case of people using it without understanding it.

sysko sysko August 7, 2015 August 7, 2015 at 12:08:47 PM UTC link Permalink

(damn my message didn't get posted the first time)

I **would** say it , admitting I’m a woman or given the right context, hence the importance of the would.

I think this way we can use the "knowledge of the mass" to reflect the only things it is able to reliably measure

=> how widely a given sentence is accepted as natural (as said before, in contrast to "correct", as we often do "natural" mistakes) for a given population
i.e with anonymised stats we could have like
* 65% of british english speaking user(1) would say it
* 10% of american english speaking user(1) would say it
* 0.5% of austrilian english speking user(1) would say it

(1) => user who have voted, note that i use user and not "people" , as we'll be always limited to people a) having a connection to the internet b) using tatoeba c) voting


And this way we could keep the great and holy "correct" to people with the authority for it (I would for one recognized as such, clearly identified people not hiding behind a nickname with easily checkable credential, writer/native teacher of said language/academic people etc. , i know it would a very scarce resource but eh here we're talking about giving a an absolute approval "it is correct, period")

sysko sysko August 6, 2015 August 6, 2015 at 11:46:31 AM UTC link Permalink

(i'm on my mobile phone, so i haven't been through all thread)

wouldn't it be more accurate to have

* i would say it
* i would not say it

because if incorrect , you got to propose a correction (and maybe permit people to +1 a correction)
and especially for language like french or english that are widely spoken accross the world, regional difference may be interpreted as 'uncorrect' , with a result of regional specifities or archaic form to be wipe out and only the minimal common block to be kept

also it would be better to keep 'ok' (correct) as something only done by a minority of approved people (yeah how they get approved is where the troll begin) both native and with a approved mastery on the language.
so that for example a construction like

apres que je sois arrive chez moi ... would not have ok but a lot of 'i would say it' because it's a mistake a lot of people do ,especially native french, while the correct version that does not sound natural for a lot of french people woud have 'ok' but a lot of ' i would not say it'

(that's just an example, so no need to comment on it, that people more and more consider it correct etc. as its not the subject)

especialy this kind of voting system soon will be used by people to downvote vulgar/religious/offensive statement or just as a mean of retaliation.

sysko sysko August 6, 2015, edited August 6, 2015 August 6, 2015 at 11:32:38 AM UTC, edited August 6, 2015 at 11:51:33 AM UTC link Permalink

Hello, it has been a long time

some feedback

1. can we make two separate category for language level
a) the acamedic level b) native/not native

for example my former boss was an american with a really mediocre mastery of grammar, and though he was of course able orally to make more idiomatic or convoluted construction, his writing was far below than some of our non-english native colleagues which had perfect grammar but non-natural use of expression

or even myself, after only 5 years abroad, with very limited contact with other french people, i find it very difficult now expressing myself in French without intermixing it with chinese or english construction and words, and if not for my parents (who only speak french) that makes me repeat from times to times, i would not know i'm making such mistakes.
2. i can't add translation without precising my level but i can link/unlink without precising anything (or maybe its because i still have admin right?)


sysko sysko August 6, 2015 August 6, 2015 at 11:26:42 AM UTC link Permalink

what about this


------ sentences below are indirect( what does it mean?) translation-----

separating both, with indirect bein in an other color and text hover explaining the concept to new comer ?

sysko sysko December 11, 2014 December 11, 2014 at 6:20:36 PM UTC link Permalink

extremly sad :(

sysko sysko September 2, 2014 September 2, 2014 at 11:26:15 AM UTC link Permalink

also for people following computer science news, there was some big "boooh bad guy" for a guy who refused to change in the comments in the code of node.js the "he" by a a neutral "they". because it was considered shocking by feminist movement.

sysko sysko September 2, 2014 September 2, 2014 at 11:22:41 AM UTC link Permalink

and also I think an other point to be aware of is that the author may not mean it. If I write a book about the life in concentration camp or about the life in France during the 1930s , I will make a lot of sentences that are offensive, but it's okay because we know it's a fiction.

So the same state of mind should be applied when going through the corpus.

After of course it does not apply to the Wall or the sentence comments, as here, except if explicitly stated, we assume that one is expressing is point of view.

sysko sysko September 2, 2014 September 2, 2014 at 10:51:58 AM UTC link Permalink

for example you can use "jaune" (yellow) in French, which as in English is mostly an adjective, as a noun but then it becomes a pejorative way to describe a person from the extreme east of Asia.

sysko sysko September 2, 2014 September 2, 2014 at 10:38:50 AM UTC link Permalink

>A racist sentence is going to have the same grammatical structure as a non-racist one,

learning a language is not about only vocabulary and grammar, but also about sayings. You may want to know also what to say and what not to say in such or such language.
Also in French, a common way to make a word being more "violent" is to add "-ard / asse" to the end of the word.

To continue on racism, what is racist or even the fact that "racist" is bad is culturally and time dependent, Chinese people as said have no problem saying and calling me "foreigner" (as it was my name, like 'hey foreigner') or saying 'black guy' when they see a black guy without anybody Chinese being shocked. So Chinese contributor will need to be make aware of it when contributing, in the other way you want to know that every single English sentences referring to Chinese characters as "Kanji" (the name in Japanese) will highly hurt them as it's well known in China that these are a Chinese invention and that a quite important number of Chinese people "hate" Japanese.

Now in the time-dependent, you may not want to import books in the public domain from the colonial period as it may contains things a bit racist to today's standard.

and a tomorrow's vegan youth will ask for a purge in Tatoeba about all the sentences making the apology of eating a good steak, a great act of barbarity if any.

sysko sysko September 1, 2014 September 1, 2014 at 2:28:05 AM UTC link Permalink

just to illustrate my point, here some example of things that are not controversial for me as a occidental young man of the 21st century

sentences talking about alcohol and the apology of it, same as for before-marriage sex, which both would have been seen has quite provocative and "bad" by Victorian minds.

sentences joking about cancer, death, rape, things that someone who have experience it directly or not my not find appropriate or hurting.

oh and while I’m at it.

if a Chinese friend of mind learning French wants an example sentence of a racist joke about Chinese/Asian to get a panel of the kind of oral jokes he may hear in the street while in Paris so that he can understand them and not simply smile stupidly while people are making fun of him, should I add it ?

My Chinese friend will not really mind racist examples, (in China we even get a very popular brand of toothpaste for which the logo is a black guy smiling and showing his white teeth, and no one here find it shocking or even think there might be something wrong about it), not that he's racist, but just that culturally he don't see that some people might take the joke personally. In the same idea, taking about world war 2 with Chinese friends, I've already seen some of my friends making the hitlerian salute in the street for *joking* though the same action put in a european city's street would have been has highly provocative and insulting (and in France I think it's punishable by law). So if you reverse the situation, one might do, say or write things that my Chinese friends will find very provocative (you can try as starter a joke on Tibet, the status of Taiwan, Hongkong and their reaction) , multiply it by the number of culture and opinion and you get what i stated above.

sysko sysko September 1, 2014 September 1, 2014 at 2:06:48 AM UTC link Permalink

on a side note, it seems to me there's no sentence with Darwinism

sysko sysko September 1, 2014 September 1, 2014 at 2:05:20 AM UTC link Permalink

my point of view on the matter is that one should read Tatoeba's content as being there only for the "example" rather than taking the "this sentence is on tatoeba" has a "the author/tatoeba supports that idea".

i.e the same way I'm not shocked my dictionary contains words like creationism with an explanation of what is , or the word Darwinism, I'm will not be shocked if Tatoeba contains a sentence making the apology of one or the other.

Same, as I myself will not participate to debate pro or anti abortion, i totally tolerate that some happens in my city, i tolerate that people in tatoeba had sentences related to that controversial issue though i will not do it myself, with the addition point for Tatoeba that the author of an example sentence my not mean it or adhere to the principle stated in a sentence he add

An other way I see support my view on this is to put the "no provocative stuff" to the extreme, i.e removing something as soon as someone or a group of people find it offensive, as Tatoeba is made to be a worldwide and eternal service (we plan other planets for the next release), you will always shocked somebody, hence Tatoeba will finish with opinion-less universal-truth-only sentences, which will be at the opposite of the initial goal of providing a set of *natural* *example* sentences

sysko sysko June 25, 2014 June 25, 2014 at 2:09:04 AM UTC link Permalink

Ce probleme-ci est reporte par le ticket 266, le fait que le tri des caracteres se fait de maniere "naive" (c.a.d par le code binaire du caractere) , au lieu de suivre les regles de tri de la langue en question.

sysko sysko June 22, 2014 June 22, 2014 at 5:29:26 PM UTC link Permalink

hmm le probleme avait deja ete reporte ici https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/266, vu que ce probleme m'embete aussi je vais essayer de voir ce que je peux faire (surtout que normalement ca n'impact pas enormement de code)

sysko sysko June 22, 2014 June 22, 2014 at 1:25:51 PM UTC link Permalink

J'ai cree une entree sur github https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/327 pour suivre ce probleme.

sysko sysko June 8, 2014 June 8, 2014 at 10:31:22 AM UTC link Permalink

[eng]
Today it's my 5th Tatoeba birthday \o/, what a way between the time when I've registered which, when the 5th language had only a thousand of sentences, where the total of languages was 10, and the number of contributions per day was around 0~1 , and now.

Thanks everyone to have made it possible, even though we all know Tatoeba has a lot of defects, I think we're globally going in the good direction.
Can't wait to see where we will be in 5 more years
[fra]

aujourdhui c'est mon 5eme anniversaire sur Tatoeba. Que de chemin parcouru depuis que je me suis enregistre sur le service. A l'epoque il n'y avait que 10 langues, la plupart n'atteignait meme pas le millier de phrase, et le nombre de contributions par jour etait plus souvent proche de 0 que d'autre chose.

Donc je voulais en profiter pour remercier tout le monde, car c'est ensemble, au fur et a mesure des petites et grosses contributions que le projet a pu non seulement subsister mais aussi atteindre la position qu'il a present (de nombreux sites, application pour apprendre les langues nous utilisent, nous participons au GSOC etc.) Je sais que nous avons tous a redire sur les defauts, nombreux de Tatoeba, mais je pense que dans l'absolu, nous avancons dans la bonne direction.
Vivement dans 5 ans.