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Sentence #177023

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Comments

sharptoothed sharptoothed April 29, 2013 April 29, 2013 at 8:47:00 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

bunbuku-san, is it OK to use 君 along with -です? I sometimes see -です/-ます sentences in Tatoeba where 君 pronoun is used and this confuses me a lot. I've always been taught that 君 is an element of familiar/colloquial language while -です and -ます indicate polite/formal speech. So, is it natural and/or acceptable in some contexts to use 君 in -です/-ます sentences?
Thanks!

bunbuku bunbuku April 30, 2013 April 30, 2013 at 4:17:32 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

君(きみ) is usually used by men and authorities like a boss at work or a teacher at school. I rarely use it personally, but I don't think it sounds unnatural.

Indeed, if people know each others well, they don't use です or ます in their conversation. However, like in this case, if a speaker doesn't know much about a listener but they are newcomers at the same situation, he probably tries to be polite even though he uses 君.

sharptoothed sharptoothed April 30, 2013 April 30, 2013 at 9:40:00 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Thanks, bunbuku-san!
So, do I understand it right, although 君 is not somewhat polite itself, it's still possible to hear it in formal situations in -です/-ます sentences when a man of superior position (teacher, boss) addresses a junior/minor person (pupil, subordinate)?
By the way, I've heard that 君 is used towards a female persons only. Is that so?

bunbuku bunbuku May 1, 2013 May 1, 2013 at 3:36:28 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I think it's possible. It doesn't matter a speaker is superior or not, it's determined by his preference for speech.

I don't think 君 is used to women only. It's used to both men and women.

sharptoothed sharptoothed May 1, 2013 May 1, 2013 at 5:27:10 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I see! Thanks again, bunbuku-san!

tommy_san tommy_san May 1, 2013 May 1, 2013 at 12:50:35 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

この文はぼくも許容範囲だと思いますが、↓のいくつかは訳し直された方がいいかもしれません。「君」を使うかというより、そもそも you をわざわざ訳出するかという問題だと思います。
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/178933
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/179088
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/179115
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/194436

tommy_san tommy_san May 1, 2013 May 1, 2013 at 1:38:49 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I'm not opposed to using "君" itself, but these sentences sound weird to me, and changing these to "あなた" won't be a solution.
I wouldn't insist if bunbuku-san (or another native Japanese) thinks they're natural. But if none of us do, and if Japanese textbooks show these kinds of sentences, then it's the textbooks that need to be revised. We won't obey what bad textbooks say.

bunbuku bunbuku May 1, 2013 May 1, 2013 at 2:53:10 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

@tommy_san
ご指摘の文ですが、私はどの文も変な感じがしません。
ただ、どちらかというと「話し言葉」というよりは、手紙などの「書き言葉」という感じがします。男性が女性に向けて書いた手紙のような印象です。

ただ、個人的にこのような手紙をもらったことはないので、実際に殿方がこのような文体で女性に手紙を書くかどうかは定かではありませんが・・・。

男性歌手の歌で見聞きする文とよく似ているから、私が違和感を感じないのかもしれません。

tommy_san tommy_san May 1, 2013 May 1, 2013 at 3:38:49 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

そうですか。ぼくもこういう文体の手紙は書いたことももらったこともありません^^;

http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentence...comment-242105
以前ここに書いたのですが、歌うときにだけ「君」と言う人は少なくないんじゃないかという気もしています。

ぼくならこう言うというのを2つ追加してみました。
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/2413154
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/2413157

bunbukuさんも、ご自身が使われる表現が他にありましたら、ぜひ投稿なさってください。男性の言い回しを想像するよりも、そちらがはるかに有意義だと思います。

bunbuku bunbuku May 1, 2013 May 1, 2013 at 4:01:45 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

>歌うときにだけ「君」と言う人は少なくないんじゃないか
そうかもしれませんね。今、頭の中でオフコースの曲がグルグルしています。自分が使うとか以前の問題で、この表現を受け入れてしまう土台が私の脳内にできあがっているのかも。

>ご自身が使われる表現が他にありましたら、ぜひ投稿なさってください
もう一度見直してみます。(^.^)

tommy_san tommy_san May 1, 2013 May 1, 2013 at 4:09:49 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

J-POP「だけ」から日本語を勉強したとしたらどんなふうに話すようになるのか、想像してみたら面白そうです。思っている以上に、ぼくらの普段の日本語からは離れたものになるのかもしれません。

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君は日本の学生ですか。

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