İpuçları

Burada Tatoeba'nın nasıl kullanılacağı, hatalar veya garip davranışların nasıl raporlanacağı gibi genel sorular sorabilir ya da en basitinden topluluğun geri kalanı ile kaynaşabilirsiniz.

Soru sormadan önce SSS'yi okuduğunuzdan emin olun.

Wall (4295 threads)

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CK
CK
yesterday - düzenlendi yesterday
** We have a new voice recording audio for us. **

Gonsalet has added 23 Catalan audio files
https://tatoeba.org/sentences_lists/show/6213/und

You can see the progress of audio file additions here.
https://tatoeba.org/wall/show_message/26389
sacredceltic
yesterday
ich brauche mehr Sätze mit dem Wort "Verwaltung", bitte. Trotzdem nicht nur Witze...
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sacredceltic
yesterday
auch Vermittlung

Danke
TRANG
6 days ago
** Tatoeba Day #22 **

Tatoeba Day starts now and as usual will end in 24 hours!

Tatoeba Day is an event where you can get involved a little bit (or a lot) more than you usually would, to help make Tatoeba more awesome. You can find more details about it here:
http://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/arti...ow/tatoeba-day

In addition to the regular Tatoeba Day activities, I'd like to bring up again the topic of having a Tatoeba coding event. If that's an idea you're interested in (even if you won't be coding yourself), please refer to this thread and share your thoughts over there:
https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/sh...#message_25645

Happy Tatoeba Day!
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TRANG
5 days ago
The dev website has been updated with a beginning of implementation for this issue:

Title: offer ability to mark a list inactive
URL: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/654

If you have a moment, please go test it on https://dev.tatoeba.org and give us your feedback.

Thanks!
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AlanF_US
2 days ago
The list inactivation feature works fine. I'm looking forward to being able to use it from the main website. Thanks for taking care of it, Zach and Trang!
TRANG
5 days ago
** Mobile friendly UI **

I've updated the dev website to include a beginning of implementation to make Tatoeba user interface mobile-friendly. The new UI has to be enabled via the Settings: "Activate new user interface".

Don't expect too much at this stage though, this option will not make Tatoeba suddenly look good on mobile devices. Re-designing Tatoeba's UI is going to be a very big project that will maybe take a whole year, maybe more. But this is a start :)

The parts of the UI that are currently affected when you activate the new UI is:
1) the font
2) the page to add new sentences ("Contribute" > "Add sentences")

If you're interested, then please go try it out on the dev website (https://dev.tatoeba.org/eng/), and try it with all sorts of browsers and devices! Let me know if it doesn't work on a particular browser or device. Again, it will NOT look good on mobile devices, but right now this is not about making it pretty, it's about making sure that it works.

Thanks!
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bill
5 days ago
Well, it's better than nothing. What framework are you using?
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TRANG
5 days ago
AlanF_US
2 days ago
The "Contribute > Add sentences" page is messed up when I enable "Use the new interface" on Firefox on Windows 7. Here's what I see, verbatim:

Add a sentence
{{language.name}} No results for {{ctrl.searchText}}.
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TRANG
2 days ago
I also use Firefox on Windows 7, this is how I see it: http://prntscr.com/b8e97q

Do you have any userscript enabled that could affect the display?
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AlanF_US
2 days ago
No, I don't have any userscript enabled. I sent you an e-mail with screenshots of the way it looks in Firefox and Chrome on my machine.
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CK
CK
2 days ago - düzenlendi 2 days ago
This is how it looks on a Macintosh running Chrome.

http://prnt.sc/b8i1g2
Screenshot of https://dev.tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/add


Perhaps the other settings a member has set makes a difference, so here are the settings I am using.

http://prnt.sc/b8i6cq
TRANG
yesterday
I figured out why. It was a problem with not using HTTPS for the new javascript links. I was actually viewing the dev website from http://dev.tatoeba.org instead of https.

I think now you should be able to see it properly.
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CK
CK
yesterday - düzenlendi yesterday
Here's what the page looks like on an iPod Touch, which should be about the same as an iPhone.

http://prnt.sc/b8m307

Left image = how the page looks at first.

Center image = how the page looks when scrolled down to the "add" section of the page.

Right image = how the page looks after contributing a sentence, and then scrolling down to that part of the page. (Notice the strange question mark at the bottom of the page for "Need some help?".)
Guybrush88
yesterday
I can confirm that also on Firefox under Ubuntu 16.04
Guybrush88
2 days ago
The new layout seems pretty messed up on my Asus tablet using Chrome. This is how the homepage looks like: http://i66.tinypic.com/123r6kk.jpg
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TRANG
yesterday
Yes that's to be expected. For now only test the "Add sentences" page, see if you can add sentence and translate your new sentences right away, or favorite them, etc.

The general layout will be messed up on mobiles and tablets because that part has not been reworked yet.
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Guybrush88
yesterday
Ok, then. I tried all the features and everything seems to be working
TRANG
5 days ago
Tatoeba Day is now over :)

Next Tatoeba Day is scheduled for June 5th.
sacredceltic
yesterday
*** Appel aux bonnes volontés pour créer un cours d'espéranto pour les francophones sur www.duolingo.com ***

Bonjour,

je suis utilisateur du service gratuit et collaboratif d'apprentissage de langues duolingo, que je recommande vivement car, même s'il n'est pas parfait, il emploie les bonnes méthodes d'apprentissage écrit et oral.

Je déplore qu'il n'y figure aucun cours d'espéranto pour les francophones, alors qu'il y a un cours d'espéranto pour les anglophones auquel sont déjà abonnés 400.000 apprenants !
Je ne peux pas croire que la communauté espérantophone francophone ne veuille pas contribuer à éduquer davantage de francophones à l'espéranto, surtout lorsqu'on voit l'enthousiasme renouvelé des anglophones pour l'espéranto.

Même s'il y a déjà beaucoup de cours d'espéranto disponibles ailleurs pour les francophones (je m'y suis moi-même formé), je pense qu'il est important que l'espéranto soit présent sur Duolingo pour les francophones, car Duolingo est un outil vraiment innovant et efficace d'apprentissage des langues, qui a reçu de l'écho dans la presse et est en train de devenir incontournable.

Je ne me sens pas moi-même assez compétent pour développer un cours d'espéranto, mais si des espérantophones francophones, plus avancés que moi en espéranto, voulaient bien lancer la création de ce cours, je donnerai un coup de main pour les tests lors de la phase d'incubation.

Merci
Aleksandro40
3 days ago
La hungara ortografkontrolo nun ne funkcias. Kial?
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AlanF_US
2 days ago
There's no spellchecker associated with the website. If you have one, it's probably controlled through your browser settings.
sharptoothed
4 days ago
** Sentences & Translations Stats **

These stats have been updated:

http://tatoeba.j-langtools.com/transtop/

Graphs have been updated, too.

http://tatoeba.j-langtools.com/graphs.html
kemushi69
6 days ago
A question about punctuation ... not relevant to "Tatoeba day"

I actually have a few questions:

1. The "em dash"

In typesetting (and in html) there are two types of dash: the "n dash", which usually appears between numbers (eg, 1-9), and the "em dash" that's longer and usually appears between words, generally to indicate a pause (colon or semicolon) or parenthetical sentence. I mean, for example, "late againーwhat a surprise!".

When I use HTML/XML for this kind of thing, I just use the "mdash" HTML glyph, but here I've ended up just switching over to Japanese input mode and entering a hyphen, which get rendered as in my example above.

So my question is whether this is a good/correct way to get that symbol into a sentence?

2. Localisation of quotation marks

In English and Irish (which are my main languages), it's simply a case of using the double-apostrophe key, whereas other languages (eg, Spanish, German) use different characters to delimit quotations.

My question is whether English-style quotes are acceptable in general, or whether the localised text should always follow local rules (eg, 「」 for Japanese) ?

This is more a question about any automatic tools that process the data rather than what I should be typing in (ie, I guess I should always use the correct language-specific punctuation).

3. double-width space characters

If I make a mistake and include a double-width space character (due to being in Japanese input mode) instead of the usual space, will it mess up the value stored in the corpus? Or are these automatically converted to regular spaces (and coalesced, should I hit space twice)?

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TRANG
5 days ago
1. I'd say this is not the correct way. Even though they look similar, they are not detected as the same symbol, and might look different with other fonts.

- http://unicode-table.com/en/30FC/ (the Japanese dash that you've entered in "late againーwhat a surprise!")
- http://unicode-table.com/en/2014/ (the em dash)


2. In theory each language uses its own standard quotes. In practice there could be English quotes in non-English sentences because we don't pre-process and standardize punctation.


3. As said above, we currently don't standardize punctuation so if you enter a double-width space it will be saved as double-width space.
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kemushi69
5 days ago
Thanks, I'll have to be careful with points 1 and 3 then.
kemushi69
6 days ago
I have a few suggestions for how the "random sentence" feature might be improved. I initially posted this on github, but was advised to repost here instead.

## 1 Include an option somewhere to limit the number of languages shown. ##

There can be a lot of scrolling involved to skip past the translations and languages that you're not interested in. If we had a way of suppressing those languages in the results, that would eliminate much of it.

This could be done with an option like "only display profile languages in results". That might also encourage users to fill in their profile languages.

Other, more fine-grained systems could work, too, though. For example, you could let users divide languages into three "piles"---core languages (ie, profile languages), languages that you have an interest in, and languages that you're not interested in. The first group would always appear, the second would only appear if the user wants them to (via a global option or local options relevant to where they are), while the last group would never be displayed (user would have to move them from the "uninteresting" category into the "core/profile" or "interesting" category), except, perhaps as a summary ("+results in 25 other languages")

## 2 Make translations invisible by default ##

This would be especially useful for the random sentence feature since it would let users test their reading comprehension without being tempted to take a peek at the translation.

This would be an option that could be turned on or off. It could be called "hide translations initially" (or something along the lines of "make translations invisible ..." as above) or it could be given a name like "reading practice mode" or "flashcard mode" or something like that.

The way it would would, I think, would be to have a horizontal "flag bar" immediately below the sentence. It would show a flag for each available translation. Then pressing on one of the flags would toggle visibility of that particular translation. There might also need to be an icon (or text button) to toggle visibility of all translations. Newly-visible translations would appear beneath the flag bar in the same way that they do now.

A simpler alternative to the flag bar would be to keep translations where they are and just have a single toggle button beside them to control visibility. That still wastes a lot of space, though, and wouldn't look very good.

## 3 Make random selection feature work within "collections" or "favourites" ##

I'm not sure what the difference between these two is, but it's not that important. The idea I have here is, again, to make the interface more useful for someone wanting to use collections of sentences as a study/revision aid. In other words, for "collections" to work more like independent stacks of flashcards, to continue the analogy from the last point.

The whole area of collections/favourites (or simply lists/sets of sentences) doesn't seem to be too well developed on the site. I don't see any way of easily sharing collections/favourites beyond trawling user profiles. A simple feature to show a random selection from a particular collection should be a very easy thing to implement and it would, in my opinion, improve the utility of the site no end.

### Closing Remarks

I haven't looked at the code, but it seems that points 1 and 2 could be done on the client side, so it should be pretty easy. Point 3 probably needs a lot of server-side work, though.
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CK
CK
6 days ago - düzenlendi 6 days ago
By "random sentence feature", do you mean this URL?

https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/random
(The first item on the "browse" menu.)
CK
CK
6 days ago - düzenlendi 6 days ago
##1

Note that it's already possible to get sets of random sentences limited to one language at a time using the advanced search function.

There are several useful preset searches for those on these pages.

Translating Irish to English - Studying English-Irish pairs
http://study.aitech.ac.jp/tatoe...=gle&t=eng

Here is the same page set up for French to English
http://study.aitech.ac.jp/tatoe...=fra&t=eng

Here is the same page set up for Japanese to English
http://study.aitech.ac.jp/tatoe...=jpn&t=eng

You can easily set up similar pages for other languages by accessing this page.
http://study.aitech.ac.jp/tatoe...late/links.php
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kemushi69
6 days ago
re:##1

That's useful to know, CK. Thanks. I didn't see any obvious way of doing that.

I still think it might be useful to allow display of all one's profile languages. Can the search engine do that, I wonder?
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bill
6 days ago - düzenlendi 6 days ago
You can do that on the settings page:

http://imgur.com/ln5FT0X
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kemushi69
6 days ago
Excellent. Thank you, bill. I'd already looked at the search options and never noticed that that section could do what I wanted.
CK
CK
6 days ago
##2

https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/1157

##3

https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/767

If this issue were addressed, then the random results in the advanced search could be limited to lists which are collections of sentences.
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kemushi69
6 days ago
Re: ##2

I've responded to the newly-created issue in github. Further conversation moves to:

https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/1157

Re: ##3

If I'm reading this correctly, the code to do a search would be able to do a join on a table containing a list of sentences (in SQL speak). I'm not sure if collections or favourites are handled any differently from lists, but in theory if one can be implemented, then so can the others. I worry if these database joins might not be too slow or heavy on resources, though?

One other question on this: is the "random" interface separate from the "search" interface, or are they the same thing with "sort=random" giving more specialised output?
TRANG
5 days ago
Regarding #2, I don't think it would be a good approach to tweak the UI on a gloabal level to add a "hide translations" feature. Practice-mode features should be a completely separate section of the site, or could be also a completely separate app.

What you're asking for is somewhat achievable with lists and Anki. If you browse lists, you can see that some lists are downloadable, like this one: https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences_lists/show/9.
You could therefore create your own lists, or download someone else's list, and use Anki or other similar apps to exercise with these sentences.


Regarding #3, the theoretical difference between collections and favorites is that favorites are sentences that you personally like, because they're interesting or funny to you. Collections are sentences that you've reviewed.

I wouldn't consider it a priority to extend the random feature to favorites and collections. We could make favorites and collections downloadable though, just like we've made some lists downloadable, so that users can import them into flashcard apps like Anki.


Generally speaking, I don't think Tatoeba should focus on providing better features for language learners to practice. Maybe someday, but right now I believe we should focus on improving the quality of our data, provide better features to organize/categorize it, and make it easier to extract subsets of our data to be used in external apps. We should rely on other apps to provide features for language learners to practice a language based on our data.
CK
CK
8 days ago - düzenlendi 8 days ago
** We now have over 220,000 English Audio Files **

◼ Listen to the audio on the most-recently contributed sentences using this link.

https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...nly-with-audio

◼ Listen to the most-recently added audio using these links.

▪ Audio added by rhys_mcg (Australian)
https://tatoeba.org/sentences_lists/show/6036/und

▪ Audio added by CK (American)
https://tatoeba.org/sentences_lists/show/4000/und
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bill
8 days ago
It's nice to have new voices on Tatoeba. Thanks for your contribution, Rhys.
CK
CK
5 days ago - düzenlendi 5 days ago
We now have over 222,222 English audio files.

https://tatoeba.org/sentences/s...nly-with-audio
MystyrNile
7 days ago
"Search error

An error occured while performing the search. If the problem persists, please let us know."

This is all I'm getting when I search right now. Wanted to ensure you guys knew there was a problem.
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Guybrush88
7 days ago
Even the random sentences feature is not working
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TRANG
7 days ago
The random sentence feature is relying on the search engine, which is why if the search is down, the random sentences will not be working either.
TRANG
7 days ago
It should be fixed now.
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MystyrNile
7 days ago
Ça marche à nouveau, merci !
don_ramon
5 days ago
It is broken again.
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TRANG
5 days ago
It should work again now.
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