Duvar (738 başlık)

<<< 1234567 >>
CK
CK
16 gün önce
** Duplicate Sentences **
I wanted to know this information, so I generated this data from last Saturday's export of the data.
This list includes all languages that had over 100 duplicate sentences.

4.31% of hun (2417 of 56116) are duplicates
3.09% of ita (7991 of 258233)
2.91% of rus (5803 of 199734)
2.79% of tur (5473 of 196471)
2.28% of epo (7961 of 349293)
2.20% of ber (1968 of 89604)
2.17% of tat (122 of 5620)
1.66% of fin (749 of 45003)
1.27% of lat (175 of 13792)
1.15% of nob (112 of 9737)
1.11% of srp (182 of 16460)
1.10% of fra (2629 of 239725)
0.99% of por (1496 of 151162)
0.96% of eng (4473 of 464668)
0.90% of deu (2540 of 282869)
0.88% of ina (146 of 16511)
0.87% of spa (1834 of 211857)
0.82% of bul (132 of 16018)
0.78% of dan (146 of 18657)
0.72% of pol (455 of 63087)
0.56% of mar (117 of 20956)
0.45% of heb (460 of 102880)
0.43% of nld (167 of 38906)
0.08% of jpn (136 of 179148)
Pfirsichbaeumchen
15 gün önce
Has any progress been made on the development of a new duplicate merging script?
AlanF_US
15 gün önce
I just sent saeb a note to ask.
sacredceltic
10 gün önce
The former merging script worked wonders. Why on Earth was it ever changed ?!
CK
CK
10 gün önce - düzenlendi 10 gün önce
Unfortunately, the existing script wasn't perfect and some data was being lost when it was run.

Apparently, it's taking a lot of time to rewrite the script and thoroughly test it before running it again, or perhaps our existing programmers can't quite figure out how to write a script that can safely be used. If there are any programmers here who think they can help, there is information in the wiki on how to setup a local version of the Tatoeba website. Write team@tatoeba.org to offer your services after doing that.
sacredceltic
10 gün önce
Data is lost when Corpus maintainers manually merge sentences while forgetting to merge comments, tags and lists attachments.
sacredceltic
8 gün önce
and update histories, without which comments don't make sense...
corvard
8 gün önce
update history must be editable at least
sacredceltic
8 gün önce
what do you mean ? History shouldn't be changed...
tommy_san
4 gün önce
This is true indeed. We should check if someone has not put the sentence into a list if we manually delete a duplicate.
Guybrush88
3 gün önce - düzenlendi 3 gün önce
Also, I think that merging with a script would be preferrable to make sure that any effort made by any user to add a sentence, even if it's a duplicate, will be credited in the sentences logs. if two different users add the same sentence, why should we credit only one user for having added it and completely ignore the other one?
wallebot
1 gün önce
Tal vez se podrian añadir el autor y los comentarios al final de los comentarios de la frase no borrada.

Aunque que criterio se usa para decidir cual de las dos frases se borra y cual se mantiene?

AlanF_US
17 saat önce - düzenlendi 17 saat önce
wallebot wanted to know what criteria would be used to decide which sentences are deleted and which are kept. A number of developers had a brainstorming session where we collected requirements for the new script. You can see it on the wiki: http://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/arti...icate-merging# The discussion was written for developers rather than users, but you still may find it useful. Throughout the discussion, you can see some mention of the criteria. For instance, the new script should save a sentence with audio preferentially over a sentence without. The old script did not do this, which meant that audio was lost when the script was run.

I asked saeb when he expected to have the script ready. He told me on Saturday, when we were chatting on IRC, that he thought he could submit it that day, along with some tests. However, apparently it didn't happen. I'll ask him again.
wallebot
4 saat önce
Muchas gracias.
Una frase puede tener mas de un audio?

Seria util que las frases pudiesen tener mas de un audio, para oir diferentes acentos por ejemplo.
al_ex_an_der
2 saat önce - düzenlendi 2 saat önce
ENGLISH
Well, it would be certainly advantageous to hear the examples pronounced both by a male and a female voice. Also the pronunciation in different regions would be interesting. But I think this is not the most urgent matter, as at the time being an overwhelmimg majority of the sentences don't have audio at all.

ESPERANTO
Nu, estus certe avantaĝe aŭdi la ekzemplojn prononcitajn kaj de vira kaj de virina voĉo. Ankaŭ la prononco en diversaj regionoj estus interesa. Sed mi kredas, ke tio ne estas la plej urĝa afero, ĉar nuntempe la grandega plimulto de la frazoj tute ne havas sonon.

DEUTSCH
Nun, es wäre sicherlich von Vorteil, könnte man die Beispiele sowohl von einer männlichen als auch von einer weiblichen Stimme gesprochen hören. Auch die Aussprache in verschiedenen Regionen wäre interessant. Aber ich denke, das ist nicht die dringendste Angelegenheit, da zur Zeit die übergroße Mehrheit der Sätze gänzlich ohne Vertonung ist.
CK
CK
11 gün önce - düzenlendi 10 gün önce
* The top 10 languages with exact duplicates added last week *

ita = 234
epo = 164
rus = 115
hun = 93
deu = 46
eng = 37
tur = 21
pol = 12
spa = 11
fra = 10


49,416 = total number of duplicates in the database
sacredceltic
8 gün önce - düzenlendi 8 gün önce
Duplicates can be introduced in different ways :

1) because the same sentence is being simultaneously translated in the same target language, by different people who are unaware of it.
This is particularly a side-effect of showing last sentences on the front page => every newcomer jumps on what is being shown and translates it...
Maybe we should not show latest contributions on the front page but on a different, dedicated page...

But this might also happen because several people translate simultaneously from the same list, and I can't see how to avoid this

2) because different sentences, in the same or different languages, end up being translated into the same target sentence.
That is unavoidable, especially since the two source sentences that are being translated are not directly linked.

When I translate "I show her" and then "I show him" into French, I have to create a duplicate, because these 2 sentences are initially unlinked, but they have the same translation in French : « Je lui montre ». I can't see how to avoid this.
All the procedures I have seen so far, based on javascript gimmicks are awkward (you need to copy sentences numbers...) and inconvenient and they don't work on all devices.
I want to be able to translate what I want from any device, at any time.

One way I could see would be to be able to link my latest translations to a sentence from a list. But that would work only if the 2 sentences are close to each other in the list I'm translating...
VilhelmsPort
2 gün önce
Does Tatoeba tell if a sentence has already been added? If not, it would be a good idea to develop a system to do so. :)
wallebot
1 gün önce
The search don't found recently added sentences. Maybe works for older sentences, but I think is a heavy work for server.
marcelostockle
20 saat önce
Every time I log in I am taken to a certain page
http://tatoeba.org/fin/sentences/show/3204881
TRANG
13 saat önce
This has been reported some time ago. I've updated an ticket we have on the topic.
https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/229
tommy_san
1 gün önce
I wonder if it's really good for the community that we cannot post comments to deleted sentences. There are various reasons we want to write comments. Sometimes we want to object to the deletion, sometimes we want to continue the discussion concerning the sentence. Even if the sentence itself it deleted, related discussions can still be meaningful. Of course we can use private messages and the wall, but I think it would be most practical to simply keep writing on the same page.
sacredceltic
1 gün önce
+100
Pfirsichbaeumchen
1 gün önce
+1
wallebot
1 gün önce
Yo yambien.

+1
Inego
1 gün önce
+1
TRANG
1 gün önce
VilhelmsPort
2 gün önce
I've submitted so me nonsense sentences, like "I like Tom's blue pineaple" or "I swear saw a tardigrade waving to me!". Is it ok to submit sentences like these?
CK
CK
2 gün önce
In my opinion, it would be better not to submit these.
Perhaps these are not good example for students of foreign languages.

Some nonsense sentences are obviously nonsense.
However, some can be confusing and seem like errors.

For example, the word "blue" can be translated into the same word used for "green" in Japanese.
In English, "green" is often used when referring to fruit that isn't ripe.
VilhelmsPort
1 gün önce
Ok then, I'll stop writing these.
sacredceltic
1 gün önce
PaulP s'amuse à délier des traductions valides sans prévenir l'auteur du lien

http://tatoeba.org/fre/sentences/show/1534458

Ce comportement, qui n'est ni plus ni moins que du sabotage du Corpus, car il fait perdre de précieuses et rares traductions, est inacceptable.
TRANG
28 gün önce - düzenlendi 26 gün önce
​** Tatoeba update (August 2rd, 2014) **​

http://blog.tatoeba.org/2014/09...d-2014.html​


​# ​New design for messages

​* ​The main change in this update is the new design for comments on sentences, messages on the Wall, and private messages.
​* ​​You will now also be able to use the sentence URL syntax everywhere, and not only for comments on sentences. The syntax doesn't require brackets anymore (you can simply type #123 instead of [#123]).​​ If you were not aware of this feature: for instance typing #123 in your message will be displayed as a link to the corresponding sentence.
​* ​The button to send a private messages to the author of a message is now present on all the messages, and not just for comments on sentences.


​# ​Other fixes

​* ​The tags count is updated properly. It was previously not incremented/decremented when adding a tag to a sentence.
​* ​The sentences count is updated properly. Same issues as with tags, the count was not incremented/decremented properly when adding a sentence.
sharptoothed
28 gün önce
It looks like sentence URLs are broken.
#123 is not http://tatoeba.org/rus/sentences/show/123
TRANG
27 gün önce
It's fixed.
Pfirsichbaeumchen
28 gün önce - düzenlendi 28 gün önce
The user search doesn’t work any more. Die Benutzersuche funktioniert nicht mehr.
TRANG
27 gün önce
It's fixed as well.
Hybrid
28 gün önce
Everything looks different!
Pfirsichbaeumchen
28 gün önce - düzenlendi 28 gün önce
If everything looks different in a disagreeable way, try to refresh the site a few times or clear your cache.
CK
CK
28 gün önce - düzenlendi 3 gün önce
[REMOVED by CK: This comment was no longer needed.]
Hybrid
28 gün önce - düzenlendi 28 gün önce
Thank you both. Clearing the cache worked. (It still looks different though)
Gulo_Luscus
27 gün önce
Won't we be able to edit or delete our comments anymore?
al_ex_an_der
27 gün önce
Only if we'll be very nice. ;-)
Gulo_Luscus
27 gün önce
Santa knows I'm a nice kid but I'm still unable to edit or delete my own comments :)
TRANG
27 gün önce
You should be able to now.
Gulo_Luscus
27 gün önce
Indeed. Thank you.
sharptoothed
22 gün önce
Before update we had nice links for every comment. I mean links like "http://tatoeba.org/rus/sentence...-388537". Can we have them back?
tommy_san
2 gün önce
> You will now also be able to use the sentence URL syntax everywhere, and not only for comments on sentences.

It would be more convenient if this feature were also available in email notifications. Would that be possible?
TRANG
2 gün önce
Yes, I have added an issue for it: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/448
sharptoothed
1 gün önce
It would be also nice if the 'Subject:' header of the e-mail message was MIME-encoded as per RFC 2047.
sacredceltic
2 gün önce
Il semble qu'une nouvelle restriction ait été introduite sans que les contributeurs en soient informés.
Il apparaît que non seulement, les phrases désapprouvées par une partie des gestionnaires du corpus apparaissent en couleur rouge (ceci a fait l'objet d'une information) mais qu'il ne soit plus possible de les lier à des traductions (et ceci n'a pas fait l'objet d'une information, à ma connaissance)
S'agit-il d'une nouvelle forme de censure ?
Pourquoi empêcher des contributeurs qui trouvent ces phrases valides, de les traduire ?
Qui est membre de ce comité de censure ? Quelles sont les modalités d'élection de l'invalidité ? Que se passe-t-il lorsque tous les gestionnaires du corpus ne s'accordent pas sur la validité d'une phrase ?
TRANG
2 gün önce
> Il semble qu'une nouvelle restriction ait été introduite sans que les contributeurs en soient informés.

http://blog.tatoeba.org/2014/09...27th-2014.html

The "translate" button has been disabled on unapproved sentences.


> S'agit-il d'une nouvelle forme de censure ?
> Pourquoi empêcher des contributeurs qui trouvent ces phrases valides, de les traduire ?

Les contributeurs qui trouvent qu'une phrase est valide ont tout à fait le droit de demander à ce que la phrase ne soit plus non-approuvée. Le but n'est pas de censurer mais d'empêcher les nouveaux contributeurs de perdre leur temps, et de perdre le temps des gestionnaires de corpus, à traduire des phrases qui seraient effectivement non valides.


> Qui est membre de ce comité de censure ?
> Quelles sont les modalités d'élection de l'invalidité ?
> Que se passe-t-il lorsque tous les gestionnaires du corpus ne s'accordent pas sur la validité d'une phrase ?

A l'heure actuelle, seuls les admins peuvent désapprouver une phrase ou la réapprouver.
Même s'il était prévu que cette fonctionnalité soit accessible aux gestionnaires de corpus, cela n'a pas encore été fait, vu qu'il n'y a pas encore suffisamment de documentation et de règlementation mise en place à ce sujet.

Dans certains cas, le désapprouvement s'applique à l'ensemble des phrases d'un contributeur qui copie-colle du contenu à partir d'autres sources, ou qui contribuent des phrases dont un grand pourcentage jugé de mauvaise qualité par d'autres contributeurs parlant la langue en question. Ce n'est donc pas impossible qu'une phrase soit désapprouvée alors qu'elle est valide. Mais dans ce cas, encore une fois, il est possible de demander à ce que la phrase soit réapprouvée.

Concernant les conflits, on verra au cas par cas. Mais à partir du moment où au moins un gestionnaire de corpus (évidemment natif dans la langue en question), voire même un contributeur avancé, juge que le phrase ne devrait pas être désapprouvée, alors elle ne sera pas désapprouvée.
sacredceltic
2 gün önce
Je trouve très curieux qu'on consacre des développements à des fonctionnalités répressives que personne n'a réclamées, au détriment de développements qu'on réclame à corps et à cris (comme un bon script de fusion de doublons, par exemple, dont le sujet revient chaque semaine sur la table...)
En parlant de doublons, la situation risque d'ailleurs de devenir cocasse, car des phrases « non-approuvées » vont se retrouver en doublon avec d'autres qui ne le sont pas...
TRANG
2 gün önce
Il n'y a rien de curieux.

Le problème de la fusion des doublons est un problème complexe sur lequel personne n'a pu, pour l'instant, aller jusqu'au bout de sa résolution.

Les fonctionnalités répressives dont vous parlez n'ont pas été introduites sans raisons. Elles résultent de la demande des contributeurs d'avoir un corpus de meilleure qualité.

Les gens qui consacrent leur temps au développement de Tatoeba le font dans leur temps libre, et le font selon ce qui les inspirent/frustrent le plus sur le moment. Ils ont leurs propres priorités.
Nous n'empêchons personne de développer ou faire développer le nécessaire, puis faire une "pull request"[1] sur notre dépôt GitHub[2].


[1] https://help.github.com/article...-pull-requests
[2] https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2
Pfirsichbaeumchen
4 gün önce
** Bontenanto por la franca frazaro, Korpuspfleger für den französischen Korpus, Corpus Maintainer for the French Corpus **

Profilo (Profil, profile): http://tatoeba.org/deu/user/profile/nimfeo.

[EPO] Mi povas anonci, ke Roland (nimfeo) pretas transpreni la rolon de bontenanto por la franca lingvo. La plej grava tasko de bontenanto estas ŝanĝi malĝustajn frazojn, kies aŭtoro ne reagis dum pli ol du semajnoj. Lia respondeco estas ĝuste juĝi, ĉu la ŝanĝo estas prava.

Ĉar ni atribuas grandan gravecon al la opinio de ĉiuj kontribuantoj de Tatoeba, ni petas, ke vi ne hezitu sendi al Shishir kaj mi mesaĝon per la sekva ligilo: http://tatoeba.org/eng/private_...sichbaeumchen.

[DEU] Ich darf mitteilen, daß Roland (nimfeo) sich bereit gefunden hat, sich für den französischen Korpus als Korpuspfleger zur Verfügung zu stellen. Die wichtigste Aufgabe eines Korpuspflegers besteht darin, fehlerhafte Sätze zu korrigieren, falls der Autor mehr als zwei Wochen nicht reagiert. Der Korpuspfleger steht in der Verantwortung, richtig zu beurteilen, ob die Korrektur gerechtfertigt ist.

Wir legen Wert auf die Meinung aller, die bei Tatoeba mitwirken. Zögert also nicht, Shishir und mir mit Hilfe der folgenden Verknüpfung eine Nachricht zukommen zu lassen: http://tatoeba.org/eng/private_...sichbaeumchen.

[ENG] I am pleased to announce that Roland (nimfeo) has agreed that he would fulfil the role of corpus maintainer for the French corpus. The most important task of a corpus maintainer is to amend incorrect sentences whose authors have not responded for more than two weeks. It is his responsibility to rightly judge whether a change is justified.

Since we attribute great importance to the opinions of all who contribute to Tatoeba, we ask that you not hesitate to send a message to both Shishir and me to let us know what you think. Please use the following link: http://tatoeba.org/eng/private_...sichbaeumchen.
TRANG
3 gün önce
I am pleased to know that we finally have a candidate for the role ^^
Pfirsichbaeumchen
2 gün önce
[EPO] Ni havas novan tekstaran bontenanton.

[DEU] Wir haben einen neuen Korpuspfleger.

[ENG] We have a new corpus maintainer.
mraz
2 gün önce
Gratulálok! mraz
marafon
2 gün önce
Toutes mes félicitations à Roland.
trieuho
2 gün önce
Why I can not find the sentence which have just added ? How long the database will be indexed ?
Ooneykcall
3 gün önce - düzenlendi 3 gün önce
Directly linked sentences now appear twice under a sentence, first as linked directly and then as if linked indirectly, while the real indirectly linked sentences don't show at all. That's one fun bug. I wonder what that means!
TRANG
3 gün önce
That was just me, I was updating some code and didn't notice that bug ^^
Pfirsichbaeumchen
3 gün önce - düzenlendi 3 gün önce
This is another bug I noticed: I see translations in all languages again rather than just those that I've chosen in my profile.
TRANG
3 gün önce
Is it okay now?
Pfirsichbaeumchen
3 gün önce
As far as I can tell, it seems back to normal again. Thanks. ☺

One more thing: The string "Remember the last list to which you assigned a sentence, and select it by default" found in the options doesn't seem to be available for translation yet. (I didn't want to send you an extra message about it.)
AlanF_US
2 gün önce
The Launchpad strings were updated just before that option went live on the server. The next time the English strings on Launchpad are updated, you'll see that string.
tommy_san
3 gün önce - düzenlendi 3 gün önce
Another bug: Translations aren't shown in "edit the list" pages.
http://tatoeba.org/jpn/sentence...edit/3737/und/
TRANG
3 gün önce
The translations were indeed displayed incorrectly in "edit" mode (they were displayng fine in "show" though). It should be fixed.
tommy_san
3 gün önce
Thanks. ☺
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