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İpuçları

Burada Tatoeba'nın nasıl kullanılacağı, hatalar veya garip davranışların nasıl raporlanacağı gibi genel sorular sorabilir ya da en basitinden topluluğun geri kalanı ile kaynaşabilirsiniz.

Soru sormadan önce SSS'yi okuduğunuzdan emin olun.

Wall (4481 threads)

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Ricardo14
52 minutes ago
:: New languages added into Tatoeba ::

> Extremaduran (ext) - http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/of_user/TORRES
Thanks to TORRES - http://tatoeba.org/eng/user/profile/TORRES

> Swabian (swb) - http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentence...rantostern/swg
Thanks to Esperantostern - http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentence...rantostern/swg
AlanF_US
yesterday
I'm thrilled that Trang has fixed the major source of slowdown and reenabled search. I'm especially impressed that she accomplished this in the middle of the workweek. You're amazing, Trang!
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sabretou
yesterday
Seconded. Brilliant work on the part of Trang, and anyone else involved.
bill
yesterday
She rocks! :)
Pfirsichbaeumchen
20 hours ago
Greatly done, Trang, and many thanks to you. ☺
Ricardo14
an hour ago
+1,000,000,000,000
TRANG
3 days ago
** Disabled search and "Browse by language" **

As most of you know, in the past weeks the site has become slower and slower. From my investigations, the search feature and the "Browse by language" page are the most resource hungry, which is why those two features are currently disabled.

At the time I'm writing this, the website should no longer be slow, but at the cost of disabling two the of main features of Tatoeba, and I cannot guarantee these features will be back anytime soon.

I do have specific ideas of some changes that may improve the performance of the website, but I don't know if these changes will be enough. We may need to migrate to a new server. But before we consider this path, we have to try and see what can be optimized.

If you have strong programming knowledge and are reading this, and could help optimizing the website, please contact me. Or/and join our Gitter chatroom: https://gitter.im/Tatoeba/tatoeba2
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CK
CK
3 days ago - düzenlendi 3 days ago
This won't solve everyone's problem, but for those who want to browse English sentences with audio, you could temporarily try this.

http://study.aitech.ac.jp/browse/

These are 240,199 English sentences with audio by CK.

This is something I put online a couple of months ago.




There is also another option for browsing English sentences with audio, showing translations owned by native speakers.

http://www.manythings.org/sentences/audio/

These pages were generated in early 2016, so aren't up-to-date, but would still likely be useful for those who are looking for English sentences to translate into their own languages.

Depending on the time of day, this website may have a lot of traffic and be a little slow for you.
silvan
2 days ago
Wow. Just so I'm clear, there's no longer a way for me to find sentence examples of specific words (in my case, mandarin ones) that I'm learning? Or is there some work-around I'm not seeing?
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TRANG
2 days ago
A possible workaround suggested by CK: https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/sh...#message_27333

Other workaround (more complex to achieve), for anyone who has programming knowledge, is to develop your own website or software to search Tatoeba sentences, by using the data that we distribute https://tatoeba.org/eng/downloads
baudelaire
2 days ago
What kind of use are we expected to do of the website if it is not possible to find sentences? It might sound like a rhetoric question, but it is not, I am really curious how are we supposed to interact with tatoeba now.
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TRANG
2 days ago
Contributions. Like creating new sentences, translating sentences, proofreading sentences... These are still things you can do.
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baudelaire
2 days ago
How can I translate sentences if I can't find them?

Maybe I am misunderstanding the site a lot, but what I used to do was to go to "navigate by language" find all the sentences in Polish that had no translation to Spanish, and start translating. That is impossible now. The only option is to wait on the main page and wait for a sentence in Polish to show up. So, how are we supposed to interact with the website if it is impossible to find any information?

And what would be the point of adding new sentences that nobody can find to translate?
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TRANG
2 days ago
You can start from the contributions instead. You can filter them by language:
https://tatoeba.org/eng/contributions/latest/pol

You can also browse by tags:
https://tatoeba.org/eng/tags/sh...with_tag/7/pol

Or browse sentences from a specific user:
https://tatoeba.org/eng/users/for_language/pol

It will for sure be more tedious to find sentences that are untranslated, but you can still find sentences this way.
Sevolfo
2 days ago - düzenlendi 2 days ago
Honestly, I prefer a slow website. What's the point of a fast website if missing the main feature of all Tatoeba?
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sabretou
2 days ago
+1

I did not find the website any slower than normal before the update, and I don't find it any faster now. All I see is that Search is gone. Perhaps it would be better to redirect Search queries to Google site search queries while this problem exists, because I legitimately do not understand how Tatoeba can be useful to anyone without Search.
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Pfirsichbaeumchen
2 days ago
Tatoeba is significantly faster for me now. However, without the ability to find sentences, Tatoeba is bereft of its main feature.
TRANG
2 days ago
Well, if that tells you anything, the load average of the server was reaching up to 14, on Monday. The server was definitely suffering.

Tatoeba is not going to be useful at the moment. But this is a temporary measure. In the worst case, we'll have to move to a more powerful server. Well actually... in the worst case, Tatoeba will have to shut down. But I don't think the problems we are facing right now are too much to handle. It'll take a week, maybe two, to stabilize. Or, if we find out we need to move to another server, maybe a month. I can't say for sure, and I don't want to give false hope before things actually get solved.

In the meantime, for sure I will add the link to http://tatoeba.ueuo.com/google.html on the search error page. I personally didn't think about it before, so thanks to CK for the top.
aliaila
2 days ago
Possibly this was contributing to the problem, but I really didn't mind opening other pages and having them load in the background while I browsed another. Searching this site by Google isn't even half as fast and organized as that.
TRANG
2 days ago
The point is that contributors can still make contributions in decent conditions.

If you haven't seen it, CK suggested an alternative for searching sentences, it's a pretty decent alternative: http://tatoeba.ueuo.com/google.html
DostKaplan
2 days ago
Since the google search site (http://tatoeba.ueuo.com/google.html) is so fast, a temporary fix could be having Tatoeba execute a search with the google search URL behind the scenes, then "screen-scrape" the returned page with awk, sed, regexp whatever to present the user with what he is normally used to seeing. Of course, we'd have to give up the ability to submit fancy search requests, but at least Tatoeba gets its search capability back to some extent.
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TRANG
2 days ago
We'd have to make sure it's okay with Google terms and conditions... which I don't think it would be okay. I think we use Google search, we have to redirect to their page.
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DostKaplan
2 days ago
Well, technically, you'll be using http://tatoeba.ueuo.com/google.html, not Google directly. The ueuo.com site has permission to use Google search I assume (or not, perhaps it is not necessary). It's like if you wrote your own web page and screen-scrape the info from stocks.yahoo.com. That's how sites like trivago.com and skyscanner.com get their info from other existing travel websites.
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TRANG
2 days ago
http://tatoeba.ueuo.com/google.html uses a script provided by Google.

We could reuse the same script, but we would need to display exactly what Google sends, including the ads. We can maybe change the CSS, but we cannot do the parsing of the content to present the sentences like they are usually displayed on Tatoeba.
TRANG
yesterday
The search is currently re-enabled.

I have possibly found the main source of the slowdown: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/1324

If things go well, we can keep the search enabled while taking care of the rest of the optimization.

The "Browse by language" page will remain disabled for now because there is an issue to fix about it: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/1323
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Guybrush88
yesterday
thank you so much for your (and, obviously, of any other developer who helped) effort :)
brauchinet
2 hours ago - düzenlendi 2 hours ago
The search offers almost all the functionality of the "browse by language" page.
For example: browse recent contributions in Spanish not translated into English:
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...p;sort=created

It comes up with the last 1000 sentences, and it's reasonably fast.
CK
CK
2 days ago - düzenlendi 2 days ago
The "browse by language" is temporarily not available, but the "browse by list" still works.

For those wishing to find English sentences that have already been proofread, you can try links like the following.

https://tatoeba.org/sentences_lists/show/907/jpn

This shows all 400,000+ Proofread English sentences along with any existing Japanese translations.

If a sentence doesn't yet show a Japanese sentence, that means it still needs a translation.


To convert this URL to your own native language, change the "jpn" at the end of the URL to the 3-letter code for your language.

For example:

Esperanto:
https://tatoeba.org/sentences_lists/show/907/epo
Turkish:
https://tatoeba.org/sentences_lists/show/907/tur
Italian:
https://tatoeba.org/sentences_lists/show/907/ita
Russian:
https://tatoeba.org/sentences_lists/show/907/rus
German:
https://tatoeba.org/sentences_lists/show/907/deu
French:
https://tatoeba.org/sentences_lists/show/907/fra
Spanish:
https://tatoeba.org/sentences_lists/show/907/spa
Portuguese:
https://tatoeba.org/sentences_lists/show/907/por
Hungarian:
https://tatoeba.org/sentences_lists/show/907/hun


You can also browse native language sentences by username.

The sentence counts are a few weeks old, but you can easily click the links to native language sentences by our contributors from this page.

http://tatoeba.byethost3.com/members.htm
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CK
CK
yesterday
** Search the 400,000+ Proofread English Sentences on List 907 **

http://aitech.ac.jp/~itesls/c/qs/907.html

I'm not sure if my web sever will support this if it gets a lot of use, but at least temporarily, I'll leave it online. So far, it seems to be working well.
CK
CK
yesterday - düzenlendi yesterday
** Browse Proofread English Sentences **

http://tatoeba.byethost3.com/browse/eng/1.html

This is a temporary page to help you more easily find English sentences to translate while the "browse by language" feature of tatoeba.org is disabled.

◼ Features
▪ 100 sentences per page
▪ only sentences that were on CK's List 907 (proofread good English sentences)
▪ only sentences that had no translations into any language in last Saturday's exported data
▪ sorted from shortest to longest, If you prefer long sentences, jump to the last page.
▪ These pages should be very fast for you. They are each less than 10 KB and also don't require accessing a database. Once you click a link, though, you'll have to wait for tatoeba.org to connect to the database, and deliver the 115+ KB page with the sentence.


There were over 7,000 such sentences.
maaster
2 days ago
#5464360

I think this sentence of mine is right in this way as it is and needs no changes.
I want to discuss it with others who speak Hungarian.

Szerintem ez a mondat így jó; szeretném kikérni más magyarul beszélő tatoebások véleményét is.
CK
CK
2 days ago - düzenlendi 2 days ago
** Google Custom Search for Tatoeba.org **

http://tatoeba.ueuo.com/google.html

Temporarily, while the search on tatoeba.org is disabled, you can try this.

In addition to standard Google searches, you can also limit the searches to just words found in the sentences, not the whole page, by limiting the Google search to words found in the "title" of the page.

Here is an example.

allintitle: tom mary boston actually


For those of you who are using my "Dashboard of Customized Links", I've inserted the Google Custom Search at the top of your pages. (You may possibly need to force a reload to get the latest external JavaScript code.)


If you aren't already using the Dashboard of Customized Links, you can create a page for yourself here.

http://study.aitech.ac.jp/tatoe...late/links.php
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hamzah
2 days ago
Dankeeeee
AlanF_US
2 days ago - düzenlendi 2 days ago
Thanks, CK! That page is quite useful.

Note that if you wanted to search for, say, the word מתעטש in Hebrew, you could type this in:

allintitle: מתעטש "Hebrew example sentence"

That would show only English versions of the sentence page, such as:

Hebrew example sentence: אני מתעטש הרבה. - Tatoeba

and would eliminate search results with such titles as:

Phrase d'exemple en hébreu : אני מתעטש הרבה. — Tatoeba
ejemplo de oración en Hebreo: אני מתעטש הרבה.- Tatoeba

all of which would point to the same page.

In practice, you can leave out the "alltitle:" and your results will be mostly the same.
DostKaplan
2 days ago
Wow, I didn't know to come in here before to learn of a temporary alternative to doing searches. The http://tatoeba.ueuo.com/google.html URL works pretty well. Maybe this info should be part of the error message on the tatoeba website when a search is attempted and fails.
dnnywld
2 days ago
Hi to all
In my opinion a slow but fully optioned site (search function is a must for those who want to learn foreign languages) is much better than a fast but (where i am?) site.
Hope to see last version reinstalled... anyway... these are only my two cents
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odexed
2 days ago
I agree. Tatoeba becomes worse every day. This new interface, desired vocabulary set that doesn't work as expected and disabled search and random sentences block now.
DostKaplan
2 days ago
But if you had experienced when tatoeba was really fast (when I first joined), you'd understand why the slowness issue has to be addressed. I used to use tatoeba.org as a goto page for testing if my home's wifi connection was up. It was pretty damn fast.
hamzah
2 days ago
مشكلة في البحث
يرجى ان تقوموا بأسرع وقت في حل مشكلة البحث في داخل الموقع .. مع الشكر
JimBreen
4 days ago
I find I am practically unable to use Tatoeba any more. Recent changes to the interface ar causing a lot of problems. In particular:

(a) when I try and use any of my links to Tatoeba functions it asks me to to log in. The "Remember me" option simply doesn't work. Once I log in I go to some sort of front page with no way of navigating to the sentence I want.

(b) in the WWWJDIC system I have links to sentences and also to the functions for amending the sentence indices. I can no longer get to these, so I can no longer work on keeping them up-to-date (I just get sent to "login", over and over again") How can I get to a link like "http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentence...ow/21660"; which worked properly for years?

(c) in the past I could find sentences by searching for them using part of the text they contained. This has vanished. Why? It was extremely useful! As an example I want to get to this sentence: "サンプルは世界200の医療機関から収集された。" How can I do it?

Hoping for some assistance.

Jim
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JimBreen
4 days ago
Hmm. Just after posting that I find it's started remembering that I've logged in. I wonder why it took a couple of hours to start doing that?
TRANG
3 days ago
There has been no change made on the "sentence annotations" section. Everything should be working the same as before.

(a) Some people have reported issues with the "Remember me". We haven't identified what's the cause. It doesn't seem to happen systematically. I personally never had the problem so far. If you get logged out despite checking the "Remember me" option, you would have to just try again.

(b) If you cannot get to some sentences anymore, this may be because they have been deleted. The example you mentioned (#21660) is a sentence that has been deleted, as you can see in the logs.

(c) There is still a search box in the sidebar. From what I've tried, it is still possible to search. You probably cannot find "サンプルは世界200の医療機関から収集された。" either because it has been modified, or because it has been deleted.
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JimBreen
3 days ago
Thanks, Trang. Now that I'm being "remembered" it's a lot better, and I can get the annotations pages again. I guess it's a cookie setting issue. I can see I (now) have a "CakeCookie[user]" set from Tatoeba. which will expire in 6 days. Fingers crossed that I can get it set again. Yesterday it took about 10 tries over several hours. Is there any way login cookies can be set to a longer period?

Re: "There is still a search box in the sidebar" - I can't see any sidebar. To you mean the search box at the top of the page? I can't use that at present as it's disabled (?). The sentence I quoted (サンプルは世界...) is still there - it's #216604. I just can't seem to locate it using a search function. I have to bring up another sentence, e.g. select a random sentence, and then put the number into the "Show sentence #:" box.
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bill
3 days ago - düzenlendi 3 days ago
Maybe it's because this sentence (#216604) is an orphan.
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JimBreen
3 days ago
Should that ever render a sentence unsearchable? All the ~160,000 Japanese/English sentence pairs from the Tanaka corpus that were rolled into Tatoeba at the beginning were orphans to start with, and I guess many still are.
TRANG
3 days ago
I thought you were referring to this search: http://prntscr.com/cmtzk7

For the general search feature, I disabled since yesterday it because the website has been very slow in the past weeks, to the point where it's almost unusable.

Cf. https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/sh...#message_27277
and https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/sh...#message_27267

I am not sure yet when I can re-enable it. It seems that with the growth of the database, the growth of visits of the website and possible as well because of the recent changes in the search feature, our server can no longer meet the demand.
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JimBreen
3 days ago
Thanks. For searching for Japanese sentences I can do that elsewhere via WWWJDIC:
e.g. http://nihongo.monash.edu/cgi-bin/wwwjdic?10 and then access them in Tatoeba using the sentence number.

Sorry to hear about the load issues. They are a pain and once you are dependent on a big relational database there's not much you can do but throw expensive resources at them.
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