menu
Tatoeba
language
Register Log in
language English
menu
Tatoeba

chevron_right Register

chevron_right Log in

Browse

chevron_right Show random sentence

chevron_right Browse by language

chevron_right Browse by list

chevron_right Browse by tag

chevron_right Browse audio

Community

chevron_right Wall

chevron_right List of all members

chevron_right Languages of members

chevron_right Native speakers

search
clear
swap_horiz
search

Lists

License

CC BY 2.0 FR

Logs

This sentence was initially added as a translation of sentence #1473What keeps you up so late?.

ما جعلك تتأخر حتى الآن؟

added by Amastan, May 19, 2012

linked by Amastan, May 19, 2012

ما جعلك تبقى مستيقظا حتى الآن؟

edited by Amastan, May 19, 2012

ما يجعلك تبقى مستيقظا حتى الآن؟

edited by Amastan, September 25, 2012

ما يجعلك تبقى مستيقظًًا حتى الآن؟

edited by Amastan, September 26, 2012

ما يجعلك تبقى مستيقظاً حتى الآن؟

edited by Amastan, September 26, 2012

ما يجعلك تبقى مستيقظاَ حتى الآن؟

edited by Amastan, September 26, 2012

ما يجعلك تبقى مستيقظاَ حتى الآن؟

edited by Amastan, September 26, 2012

ما يجعلك تبقى مستيقظاً حتى الآن؟

edited by Amastan, September 26, 2012

Sentence #1581511

warning
Your sentence was not added because the following already exists.
Sentence #{{vm.sentence.id}} — belongs to {{vm.sentence.user.username}} Sentence #{{vm.sentence.id}}
{{vm.sentence.furigana.info_message}} {{vm.sentence.text}}
star This sentence belongs to a native speaker.
warning This sentence is not reliable.
content_copy Copy sentence volume_up Play audio Play audio recorded by {{vm.getAudioAuthor(vm.sentence)}} volume_off No audio for this sentence. Click to learn how to contribute. info Go to sentence page
subdirectory_arrow_right
warning
{{transcription.info_message}}
Translations
Unlink this translation link Make into direct translation chevron_right
{{translation.furigana.info_message}} {{translation.text}} Existing sentence #{{translation.id}} has been added as a translation.
edit Edit this translation
warning This sentence is not reliable.
content_copy Copy sentence volume_up Play audio Play audio recorded by {{vm.getAudioAuthor(translation)}} volume_off No audio for this sentence. Click to learn how to contribute. info Go to sentence page
subdirectory_arrow_right
warning
{{transcription.info_message}}
Translations of translations
Unlink this translation link Make into direct translation chevron_right
{{translation.furigana.info_message}} {{translation.text}} Existing sentence #{{translation.id}} has been added as a translation.
edit Edit this translation
warning This sentence is not reliable.
content_copy Copy sentence volume_up Play audio Play audio recorded by {{vm.getAudioAuthor(translation)}} volume_off No audio for this sentence. Click to learn how to contribute. info Go to sentence page
subdirectory_arrow_right
warning
{{transcription.info_message}}
{{vm.expandableIcon}} {{vm.sentence.expandLabel}} Fewer translations

Comments

Eldad Eldad September 25, 2012 September 25, 2012 at 8:32:02 PM UTC link Permalink

Hi Amastan! :)
Could you add tanwin fatha?

Eldad Eldad September 25, 2012 September 25, 2012 at 8:34:25 PM UTC link Permalink

And a suggestion:

According to the other languages, it's "What is it that makes you... etc.", so would:
ما يجعلك تبقى مستيقظا حتى الآن؟
be more accurate?

Amastan Amastan September 25, 2012 September 25, 2012 at 10:20:35 PM UTC link Permalink

Yes, I agree with the additional accuracy you suggest for the sentence.

OK, I agree with adding the "tanwiin".

By the way, I am planning to add much more sentences in Arabic soon. However, I am concerned by the accurary of the pronunciation. I mean that I would like Tatoeba's corpus in Arabic to be much more helpful to Arabic learners through, however, I don't know how to make this.

What do you think we should do? Should we write every sentence without tashkeel (diacritics) and then, rewrite it with tashkeel? I insist on the necessity of writing the sentences without tashkeel because all fluent Arabic-speakers are used to write and TYPE Arabic without tashkeel. However, it is also necessary to accompany each sentence with tashkeel in order to make its reading accurate.

Another question: should we add a transcription in Roman characters (just as Chinese has pinyin transcription)?

Thank you for helping me to correct this sentence, and I also would appreciate very much if you could help me to think about the issues I raised in my questions.

Ĝis revido frato
^v^


Eldad Eldad September 25, 2012 September 25, 2012 at 10:22:43 PM UTC link Permalink

Kara frato,

Yes, I agree that the Arabic sentences should be written without tashkeel (as this is the normal way of writing/reading Arabic).

As for adding parallel sentences with tashkeel, I don't know how this is accommodated by Tatoeba (regarding Chinese etc.). Maybe you could ask sysko about that.

It will be quite a lot of work to add a parallel set of sentences with tashkeel to all the existing Arabic sentences in Tatoeba, wouldn't you think so? Plus we are all volunteers here, so I guess you would rather use your time adding more sentences both in Amazigh and in Arabic, instead of adding the parallel sentences with tashkeel.

Eldad Eldad September 25, 2012 September 25, 2012 at 10:26:35 PM UTC link Permalink

You should also take into account that tashkeel is not always unequivocal - sometimes there are two forms of pronouncing the same word; partial tashkeel is always helpful, for instance, damma on the last letter of the verb to distinguish between "I" and "you":

ta'akhart*u (rather than ta'akhart[a])

Amastan Amastan September 25, 2012 September 25, 2012 at 10:42:10 PM UTC link Permalink

I have modified the verb "ǧaɛala-ka" (made you) into "yaǧɛalu-ka" (makes you).

For the tanween, I need to find the right key on my keyboard. I shall try it tomorrow, inshallah.

About time and parallel sentences: I don't mind spending time in writing them. Indeed, I would like the corpus of every language I contribute into to be very accurate and useful for possible users. Many years ago, when I heard for the first time about the Internet, I used to hear that you could find absolutely all you needed on it, however, it turned out that this wasn't really true ^v^ For example, you can't find a corpus of 100.000 sentences in Zulu, and you can't find the audio of 100.000 sentences in Irish Gaelic (neither in Berber, for the moment :-)), however, we, even as volunteers, we got to do our best in order to make everything good and efficient. You know that the absence of tashkeel in Arabic doesn't just pose a problem to non-native learners, but, sometimes even to native learners and people (sometimes natives) who learn it under literacy programs.

Let's make the corpuses as accurate as possible :-) As long as it benefits people, let's do it ^v^

By the way, I wish we could find Roman character transcriptions even for the rest of languages using non-Roman alphabets/non-alphabetic/complexe alphabetic scripts (Japanese, Hebrew, Thai, Burmese, Tibetan, languages of India, and even Georgian and Armenian).

Amastan Amastan September 26, 2012 September 26, 2012 at 1:15:25 PM UTC link Permalink

Hey, Eldad, have you noticed that sometimes, some diacritics can hardly be seen or noticed with some letters?

Eldad Eldad September 26, 2012 September 26, 2012 at 3:55:02 PM UTC link Permalink

No, I'm not sure, could you give me an example, or a link to a specific sentence?

You put there a double tanwin fatha ;) you have to delete one.

BTW, we had a little discussion, saeb and myself. I used to put the tanwin fatha on the letter preceding the aleph. I learned from saeb to add it on the aleph, instead of the letter preceding it.

Amastan Amastan September 26, 2012 September 26, 2012 at 4:06:14 PM UTC link Permalink

Is the Arabic text now OK?

What I meant by the diacritics that can hardly be noticed (if not at all), was just like in the sentence above: the fatha sign is so close (and stuck) to the aleph that it can hardly be noticed. In our textbooks, we had a much better display of the diacritics. They were clearly visible and clearly separated from the letters.

Ĝis revido
^v^

Eldad Eldad September 26, 2012 September 26, 2012 at 4:09:03 PM UTC link Permalink

I believe it's a question of display. I can see the diacritics quite well.

This time I believe you added a shadda over the aleph, instead of tanwin fatha ;-)

Eldad Eldad September 26, 2012 September 26, 2012 at 4:15:06 PM UTC link Permalink

I copied the sentence to my virtual keyboard space and added the tanwin fatha - do you see it better in the comment area, below?

ما يجعلك تبقى مستيقظاً حتى الآن؟

Amastan Amastan September 26, 2012 September 26, 2012 at 8:52:17 PM UTC link Permalink

Answer to comment no. 1: No Eldad, I assure you that I put a fatha, not a shadda. However, I put only one fatha. Now, I'm going to put a double fatha.

Answer to comment no. 2: Yes, I can see the tanwin (double fatha), but it's still stuck to the aleph.

Thank you for all the trouble you take in order to correct my sentences ^^ We'll work much more in the coming days, inshallah ;-)

Eldad Eldad September 26, 2012 September 26, 2012 at 9:12:01 PM UTC link Permalink

It still looks like shadda ;-)
Anyhow, can you easily input the tanwin fatha here over the aleph? (it took a me a while before I managed to locate it on my keyboard three hours ago). If you need me to input it - no problem.

Amastan Amastan September 26, 2012 September 26, 2012 at 10:06:36 PM UTC link Permalink

I have copied and pasted your very sentence and in it, the tanwin sign can be seen much better in mine (that I typed with my keyboard). I don't know why... Anyway, dankon por la ideon :-)

Hey, by the way, and before I start submitting new sentences in Arabic, do you agree with submitting each sentence twice, once with tashkeel (diacritics) and another one without it?

Diru al mi, mi petas :-)

Eldad Eldad September 26, 2012 September 26, 2012 at 10:32:25 PM UTC link Permalink

Well, I don't have any objection to that, on the contrary. If it's not too much work for you, I'm certainly in favor. However, don't you think it may look as tautology? After all, you repeat the sentence, once without the diacritics and yet another time with them. I'm in favor if you deem it necessary.

Eldad Eldad September 26, 2012 September 26, 2012 at 10:34:49 PM UTC link Permalink

(Dankon por la ideo ;-)
Ne dankinde! Mia plezuro.

Parenteze, lastatempe mi komencis skribi "dankon pro" anstataŭ "dankon por...", sed mi kredas, ke "dankon por..." estas sufiĉe multe uzata en Esperantio, kaj oni konsideras tion ĝusta.

Amastan Amastan September 26, 2012 September 26, 2012 at 11:03:46 PM UTC link Permalink

Hehehe... dankon pro la klarigo sur "dankon por" kaj "dankon pro" ^v^

Vi diris:
However, don't you think it may look as tautology?

Mi ne pensas tion. Mi pensas ke se mi havas tempon, tio estas necesa ĉar la araba havas skrito ke bezonas "taŝkil" (aŭ "diacritic signs" :-p) ^v^ Se homoj ne povas trovi bonajn ekzemplojn en Tatoeba, ili ne povos trovi tion en aliaj retejojn ^b^ Tatoeba devas iĝi Vikipidion de frazojn ^v^ JES!

Bonan nokton frato ^_^²²²²

Eldad Eldad September 26, 2012 September 26, 2012 at 11:08:28 PM UTC link Permalink

Vi tute pravas, mia kara frato.
Do, al tio mi povas respondi al vi: Nu, bone, do skribu dekomence ĉiujn novajn frazojn viajn kune kun la taŝkilo ;-) Ĉu vi bezonas duoblajn frazojn, unu sen taŝkilo kaj la dua KUN ĝi? :)

Tamen, eble vi pravas. Mi ne testis ankoraŭ: eble, kiam la frazo havas taŝkilon, oni ne povas GUGLi kaj trvoi ĝin.

Eldad Eldad September 26, 2012 September 26, 2012 at 11:09:24 PM UTC link Permalink

*GUGLi kaj trovi ĝin.

Amastan Amastan September 27, 2012 September 27, 2012 at 4:51:33 PM UTC link Permalink

"oni ne povas GUGLi kaj trvoi ĝin."

Jes!!! Do, ni aldonos frazojn kun taŝkilo kaj sen taŝkilo ^b^

Eldad Eldad September 27, 2012 September 27, 2012 at 4:52:53 PM UTC link Permalink

Bonege. Ĉu vi jam diskutis tion kun sysko?

Amastan Amastan September 27, 2012 September 27, 2012 at 5:38:18 PM UTC link Permalink

Mi ankoraŭ ne diskutis tion kun li :-p Mi skribos al li.