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We cannot determine yet whether this sentence was initially derived from translation or not.

linked by an unknown member, date unknown

もう七時30分だ、大急ぎで行かなくては。

added by an unknown member, date unknown

今は七時半です。僕は飛ばなければなりません

edited by 888goober888, December 18, 2019

今は七時半です。僕は飛ばなければなりません。

edited by 888goober888, December 18, 2019

今は七時半です, 僕は飛ばなければなりません。

edited by 888goober888, December 18, 2019

もう七時30分だ、大急ぎで行かなくては。

edited by JimBreen, December 22, 2019

7時30分だ。大急ぎで行かなくては。

edited by Pfirsichbaeumchen, February 29, 2020

linked by Pfirsichbaeumchen, February 29, 2020

Sentence #194178

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Comments

JimBreen JimBreen December 22, 2019 December 22, 2019 at 2:09:19 AM UTC link Permalink

I have reverted this sentence to its original form. If you feel the need to have an alternative sentence, add it as a fresh sentence; don't make such a radical change to an existing sentence.

JimBreen JimBreen December 22, 2019 December 22, 2019 at 2:36:01 AM UTC link Permalink

I'd have used a semicolon, but then I'm ancient. I see things like: "大失敗だ、..." in conversational writing. Japanese punctuation can be pretty fluid. Feel free to change them both to sentence pairs.

JimBreen JimBreen December 22, 2019 December 22, 2019 at 2:46:41 AM UTC link Permalink

Well, the Japanese is as it arrived from the original Japanese source (not that it means it's correct, idiomatic, etc.) 8-)}

Aiji Aiji December 22, 2019 December 22, 2019 at 3:33:17 AM UTC link Permalink

Don't you find it weird to write 七時30分? I'd think one would choose between kanjis or digits.

Pfirsichbaeumchen Pfirsichbaeumchen December 22, 2019 December 22, 2019 at 5:12:59 AM UTC link Permalink

Nowadays probably half-width numbers (7時30分), I would assume?

Pfirsichbaeumchen Pfirsichbaeumchen December 22, 2019 December 22, 2019 at 5:13:42 AM UTC link Permalink

@tommy_san

JimBreen JimBreen December 22, 2019 December 22, 2019 at 5:28:36 AM UTC link Permalink

I think you see this mixed usage a lot in informal Japanese writing.

small_snow small_snow February 29, 2020, edited February 29, 2020 February 29, 2020 at 1:59:15 AM UTC, edited February 29, 2020 at 2:05:44 AM UTC link Permalink

皆さま!私はこれについて、コメントがしたいです!:)
私だったら、*最小限*に直すとして、

7時30分だ。大急ぎで行かなくては。

にします。私がそう考える理由は、以下の通りです。

(1) 漢数字と算用数字を混合させなければ、以下のいずれでもいいと思います。
- 7時30分
- 7:30
- 7時半
- 七時半 (縦書きで主に使われる)
- 七時三十分
算用数字を全角で書くか半角で書くかは、文書によって異なります。

(2) 終止形の後の句読点は、基本、句点(。)なので、この場合の「だ」の後の読点(、)は、とても違和感を感じます。

If you are interested, please read the following a more detailed explanation, too.
- 体言(名詞・代名詞・数詞の類)の後の助動詞「だ」は(断定)になります。
断定の助動詞(だ)の活用とそれに続く言葉は、以下の通りです。
未然形 「だろ」+「う」
連用形 「だっ」+「た」または「で」+「ある」
終止形 「だ」+句点(。)
連体形 (な)+「ので」
仮定形 「なら」+(ば)
命令形 -
よって、この場合の「だ」の後は、読点ではなく句点になります。

small_snow small_snow February 29, 2020, edited February 29, 2020 February 29, 2020 at 1:59:46 AM UTC, edited February 29, 2020 at 2:03:44 AM UTC link Permalink

PS:
CKの最後のコメントのリンク先は、ほとんどがnon-native speakerの方が書かれたもので、一部日本人の投稿もあるようですがそれは恐らくTypoだと私は思います。

Pfirsichbaeumchen Pfirsichbaeumchen February 29, 2020 February 29, 2020 at 2:24:27 AM UTC link Permalink

I've changed this according to Small Snow's suggestion. I hope everyone is OK with that, @JimBreen, @CK. 🙂

JimBreen JimBreen February 29, 2020 February 29, 2020 at 2:28:17 AM UTC link Permalink

Re the "most of those examples were by non-native speakers", it's worth noting that the Tanaka corpus was a compilation of sentence pairs by Japanese university students. See: http://www.edrdg.org/wiki/index...us#Compilation
You have to wonder where they got them from, given that many are not exactly idiomatic Japanese.

CK CK February 29, 2020, edited February 29, 2020 February 29, 2020 at 2:47:25 AM UTC, edited February 29, 2020 at 2:53:31 AM UTC link Permalink

> You have to wonder where they got them from, given that many are not exactly idiomatic Japanese.

A number of these look suspiciously like what we see in those "study for entrance exam" books, including the errors seen in the English sentences. I used to have several thousand of these in my office. Since I was interested in seeing them, and many people knew that, my collection grew quite large.

As for not idiomatic Japanese, that's sort of the way Japanese students are taught to translate from English into Japanese, and how many textbooks translate English.

small_snow small_snow February 29, 2020, edited February 29, 2020 February 29, 2020 at 2:51:56 AM UTC, edited February 29, 2020 at 4:05:42 AM UTC link Permalink

@JimBreen
>it's worth noting that the Tanaka corpus was a compilation of sentence pairs by Japanese university students.

Wow! そうでした。

>You have to wonder where they got them from, given that many are not exactly idiomatic Japanese.

なるほど、固定観念に縛られるなということですね。奥深いですね。勉強になりました。ありがとうございました。

small_snow small_snow February 29, 2020 February 29, 2020 at 2:59:27 AM UTC link Permalink

@CK

>Perhaps you could add a few example sentences with 急がなくちゃ.
そうなんです。それを付け加えたかったです。Done!

JimBreen JimBreen March 2, 2020 March 2, 2020 at 12:05:00 AM UTC link Permalink

CK wrote: "As for not idiomatic Japanese, that's sort of the way Japanese students are taught to translate from English into Japanese, and how many textbooks translate English. "

Indeed. One of my early Japanese instructors said that she visited a JSL school in Japan and saw that students were being taught rather non-idiomatic Japanese (sentences starting 私は, あなたは, etc.) When she asked about it, the staff said: "Oh, but gaijin expect to be taught to say things like that!".

Pfirsichbaeumchen Pfirsichbaeumchen March 2, 2020 March 2, 2020 at 12:37:06 AM UTC link Permalink

That's a great anecdote. 😊

JimBreen JimBreen March 2, 2020 March 2, 2020 at 1:26:40 AM UTC link Permalink

I have Naganuma & Mori "Practical Japanese" (1962) right here. Totally in romaji.

Aiji Aiji March 2, 2020 March 2, 2020 at 2:15:45 AM UTC link Permalink

> "Oh, but gaijin expect to be taught to say things like that!"
Ha ha, that's so true ^^ But to be fair with them, I think it's partly due what I call the "主語がないとわからない" phenomenon :P
Even Japanese sometimes can't get the content of a news because the speaker gives too much information without any subject and object (the classical "who did what to who").
At work, I've seen Japanese strangely misunderstanding each other because of this, so now I intentionally overuse 私 and the kinds in emails and meetings, so I'm sure what I say and what is understood are the same.

Japanese is a subtle language ^^