noka mi -> noka [?]

(awen e = to protect)
awen e -> awen lon weka pi

-> mi wile tawa kepeken noka. mi wile ala awen lon weka pi tomo tawa kulupu.

awen = to wait
so: awen e ijo = to wait for something
toki pona is a contextual language and in this context I think "awen e" is more for "waiting" and not "protect"

noka mi -> noka; I agree with you, thanks.

You're welcome.

"e" doesn't mean "for" though. (*"mi pali e jan lawa mi" doesn't mean "I work for my boss".) Instead, "awen" being an adjective meaning "remaining", "staying" etc. can be turned into a transitive verb "awen e" meaning "to make sth remain", "to make sth stay", which can be extended to "to protect", and possibly "to make someone wait", which is not "to wait for someone". Plus, I don't know about any course that teaches "awen e" the way you're using it here. Do you know of any?

Hello Tepan,
I just follow "pu".
"e" is for introducing a direct objet and "awen" can be translate by "to wait", a transitive verb in this sentence.
Here we have "tomo tawa kulupu" as the direct object and "awen" as the transitive verb.
So I simply applied the rule -> mi awen e tomo tawa kulupu.

I found other examples:
- https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/4712201
- https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/9497772
Maybe you think they are wrong too, but at least I'm not alone to think that way ;-)

I am not saying "awen lon weka pi" is wrong but my version seems good to me too. Toki Pona can have a lot of way to say the same thing according to the person who speaks it, maybe you can add you version in a new translation of this sentence?

Best regards

Hi Zyrus,

thanks for following Pu.

You are right, that "e" introduces a verb's direct object. Alas, "awen" is not a verb.

awen ADJECTIVE enduring, kept, protected, safe, waiting, staying
PRE-VERB to continue to

So, even though "to be waiting" can be translated as "to wait", "awen e" implies a conversion from adjective to verb. The Pu rule is (cf. Lesson 6): "You can convert any adjective into a verb." The examples given are "pona - good", "pona e - to make good, improve" as well as "suli - large", "suli e - to make large, enlarge". Hence "awen e" can also mean "to make safe, to save". Applied to "waiting" this means "awen e - to make waiting", i.e. "to let someone wait".

The two sentences you have mentioned are also wrong, yes. I will notify the owners.

There are certainly many ways to convey the same idea. "awen e" for "to wait" happens to break Pu rules (+ examples), though. I don't want you to use "lon weka pi" at all costs. It was just a suggestion.

Hello Tepan,

You say "awen" is not a verb but in jan Lope toki pona lessons (https://htmlpreview.github.io/?...0000000000000) it is explicitly written awen : to stay, to wait, to remain.

I don't understand why you does not want to accept awen as a multi-meaning verb
and I think it is an endless conversation at this point :-)

Hello Zyrus,

we're making progress, so I don't think this conversation is endless.

First of all, Lope is not "Pu". Pu uses the term "verb" for transitive verbs only. Since you said that you just follow Pu, I thought you know that. But anyway, Lope describes "awen" as an *intransitive* verb, "to wait", whereas "awen e" is a *transitive* verb, derived from the *intransitive* verb. So far, so Pu (if you read Pu's "verb" as Lope's "transitive verb" and Pu's "adjective" as Lope's "intransitive verb", with "(to be) waiting" = "to wait"). But even for Lope, "awen e" doesn't mean "to wait for" or "to await", but "to keep" - rightfully so, since that is "to make (something) remain", all in accordance with above mentioned Pu rules. But "awen e" for "to wait for" is neither in accordance with Pu nor with Lope.

I hope my explanation was helpful. If you have any questions, please let me know.

@Zyrus ?

mi wile ala awen e tomo tawa kulupu.
-> mi wile ala awen lon weka pi tomo tawa kulupu (kama).
-> mi wile ala awen tawa kama pi tomo tawa kulupu (kama).

toki. I'm even more convinced now that "awen tawa kama" is clearer, and "kama" after "tomo tawa kulupu" is needed, as otherwise "prochain" would be mising.

mi wile ala awen lon weka pi tomo tawa kulupu.
-> mi wile ala awen tawa kama pi tomo tawa kulupu.

tomo tawa kulupu
-> tomo tawa kulupu kama

@Zyrus

mi pana e ante.