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This sentence was initially added as a translation of sentence #3551615Сильно проголодался?.

Are you very hungry?

added by AlanF_US, November 10, 2019

license chosen by AlanF_US, November 10, 2019

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#8327581

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#8327582

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Sentence #8315175

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Comments

Gulo_Luscus Gulo_Luscus November 17, 2019 November 17, 2019 at 12:50:39 AM UTC link Permalink

How to trigger Turkish people? Just tell us you are very hungry :)

JGEN JGEN November 17, 2019 November 17, 2019 at 2:22:11 AM UTC link Permalink

Gulo_Luscus. I think should be at least 3 or 5 Turkish translations in my opinion.

Gulo_Luscus Gulo_Luscus November 17, 2019 November 17, 2019 at 2:43:56 AM UTC link Permalink

@JGEN

<<<
Gulo_Luscus. I think should be at least 3 or 5 Turkish translations in my opinion.
>>>

I used only the question structure (not "you are very hungry?"); my sentences are in the correct tense, and all sound natural. I see no harm in adding them all if all are used by native speakers.

I invite @soliloquist @deyta and @tulin to check my sentences and add more if I've missed any so far.

soliloquist soliloquist November 17, 2019 November 17, 2019 at 11:54:18 AM UTC link Permalink

Good job! I added 15 more alternatives. #7873568

I also linked all the alternatives to #8328540 (it covers both singular and plural you) so that they would be seen in sharptoothed's alternative translation charts.

Long story short: https://i.ibb.co/xHQHnQV/milletacac.png

tulin tulin November 17, 2019 November 17, 2019 at 3:12:39 PM UTC link Permalink

Ben hayatımda bu kadar açlık görmedim:)
Tebrik ederim. Cümleler benim önümde yazılı olsa bile birbirine ķarıştırır, eksik yazardım. Sizde birkaç harf hatası var yalnızca.
Açıktı->acıktı

Gulo_Luscus Gulo_Luscus November 17, 2019 November 17, 2019 at 3:26:35 PM UTC link Permalink

:) Teşekkür ederim, düzelttim onları.
(I corrected the four typos tulin pointed out)

deyta deyta November 18, 2019, edited November 18, 2019 November 18, 2019 at 1:15:47 PM UTC, edited November 18, 2019 at 1:16:41 PM UTC link Permalink

bir ara ufak bir deneme yapmıştım.
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/8092871

sırf bu cümlede yüzlerce varyant-kombinasyon-karşılık eklenebilirdi.
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...omment-1115726

biraz program kullanılsa kolayca absürt sayıda cümleye ulaşılabilir.

Inego Inego December 1, 2019 December 1, 2019 at 2:33:59 AM UTC link Permalink

I know all those Turkish translations have been added by hand, but, really, they seem as generated by recursive iteration or something like that.

Gulo_Luscus Gulo_Luscus December 1, 2019 December 1, 2019 at 3:59:20 AM UTC link Permalink

@Inego

“I wouldn't let some recursive iteration rob me of my glory!”

And besides, I am not the developer one)


Well, it is possible and actually very easy for a Turkish contributor to add more than 100 translations to a single sentence in general. Consequently, more words mean more translations. I added more than 240 translations to “Are you very hungry? and it is possible to add more than 600 to “Are you very much hungry?”

However, we do not have the energy to do it. We usually add one (sometimes two due to plural "you") translation for each sentence. That is why the Turkish corpus does not have the most sentences on Tatoeba.

Inego Inego December 1, 2019 December 1, 2019 at 4:05:45 AM UTC link Permalink

Yes, some languages allow much freedom in rephrasing the same sentence in multiple ways, and the longer the sentence is, the more substitutions/combinations are possible. But I see something of a problem here, if we really will strive to add all those combinations: if one, say, is looking for examples of a couple of words for a given language, one would be overwhelmed by the same sentence repeating in its various combinations over and over. So, in this sense, the "value" of search results would be watered down.One would always have to scroll through multiple pages of search results to find *really" different sentences.

Gulo_Luscus Gulo_Luscus December 1, 2019 December 1, 2019 at 4:31:57 AM UTC link Permalink

The idea of adding all possible translations to sentences should not harm a project whose concept is to collect sentences and their translations, as long as the sentences are considered to be OK by Tatoeba guidelines.

Modern problems require modern solutions.
If the search results are to cause problems, developers can come up with solutions. I am just a mere contributor.

Inego Inego December 1, 2019, edited December 1, 2019 December 1, 2019 at 5:00:43 AM UTC, edited December 1, 2019 at 5:02:38 AM UTC link Permalink

@Gulo_Luscus
> Modern problems require modern solutions.

Yes, in theory you're right, but in the reality this site is run by the efforts of the community. Programmatically isolating clusters of semantically identical sentences in search results seems to be a daunting technical task, which I doubt can be feasible outside of a tech giant like Google or Facebook.

Gulo_Luscus Gulo_Luscus December 1, 2019 December 1, 2019 at 5:12:00 AM UTC link Permalink

>It's likely enough to give one or just a few, especially if conversions from one >example to others is something that any moderately-competent second language >learner could figure out to do.

I have to disagree because we cannot decide what is "proper" for other languages that we do not speak fluently. In Turkish, natives can change the word orders and sound very natural whereas learners usually sound weird when they try to do the same thing.

Even for Russian, which I have been learning, I would like to see all possible translations of the verb "to go" because I (or anyone else) may not figure them out by myself. Like this: #8348726

https://youtu.be/a-ZksypPgE0

Inego Inego December 1, 2019, edited December 1, 2019 December 1, 2019 at 5:24:42 AM UTC, edited December 1, 2019 at 5:41:46 AM UTC link Permalink

Yes, sure, this is not a trivial problem. On the one hand, one would like to know all possible ways to express some notion or idea in a given language, and on the other hand, trying to display them all for a single long sentence can lead to a combinatorial explosion of variants. So that's probably the matter of personal taste, conscience and responsibility of the author.

Gulo_Luscus Gulo_Luscus December 1, 2019 December 1, 2019 at 5:30:37 AM UTC link Permalink

>If you were a teacher, which do you think would be the best one or two for your >students? Do some of the patterns occur with a higher frequency than others?

are YOU very hungry
are you VERY hungry
are you very HUNGRY

Instead of this kind of stressing, we (generally) change the word orders in Turkish. We also do not need to use pronouns and we have singular and plural versions of "you". It is similar to Russian but more complicated.

And when we change the word orders, we usually need to change the words too because of suffixes.

That is why I cannot say my students which one is the perfect choice to go with. Different kinds of people use different versions based on their characteristic features and their moods— caring, ignoring, wondering, etc.

soliloquist soliloquist December 1, 2019 December 1, 2019 at 6:58:54 AM UTC link Permalink

All these alternatives may not sound equally natural, but they are grammatically acceptable. This was probably a record breaking attempt (the previous was #30341), and it's not all a bad thing having several examples of such large alternative translation groups in a 600K+ corpus to show the vast flexibility of the syntax. How else could we show learners this aspect of the language on Tatoeba? It definitely shouldn't be a habit or the norm, but I don't think anyone intends for this to happen.

Another approach might be to link such repetitive alternative translations to the most preferable same-language sentence (if they match of course) rather than to a foreign one, but there are people opposing same-language links, too. It's not possible to please everyone.

Gulo_Luscus Gulo_Luscus December 1, 2019, edited December 1, 2019 December 1, 2019 at 7:23:03 PM UTC, edited December 1, 2019 at 7:44:22 PM UTC link Permalink

It was actually not an attempt and is not an attempt anymore.

>How else could we show learners this aspect of the language on Tatoeba? It >definitely shouldn't be a habit or the norm, but I don't think anyone intends for this >to happen.

I agree with this. It summarizes my purpose.

I had also added several English sentences here #2827871 in a similar manner.


The funny thing is, karma hit me :/

A random(!) sentence on my main page:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9svk7...1-22_11_02.png

soliloquist soliloquist December 1, 2019 December 1, 2019 at 10:04:22 PM UTC link Permalink

> It was actually not an attempt and is not an attempt anymore.

OK, whatever. But I still reserve the right to set a new record (this time with a 4-figure group) if this one gets broken by another language in future. :-)

Inego Inego December 2, 2019 December 2, 2019 at 12:47:51 AM UTC link Permalink

@Gulo_Luscus

You can always fix your karma in the settings, either by enabling "Display a link to expand/collapse translations when there are too many translations." or even "Hide random sentence on the homepage" 😊