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Wall (6,249 threads)

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Before asking a question, make sure to read the FAQ.

We aim to maintain a healthy atmosphere for civilized discussions. Please read our rules against bad behavior.

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AlanF_US AlanF_US March 5, 2021 March 5, 2021 at 3:42:30 AM UTC link Permalink

When you see a sentence thread that has 96 comments, does that make you more inclined to leave another one? When you see that seven of those comments call to the admins, but no admin has replied yet, do you conclude that another call to the admins is likely to do the trick? When you see that a particular style of punctuation brings widespread criticism, do you persist in it? When you see that someone loves nothing more in life than to stir up an argument, do you oblige them?

Or do you just focus on adding high-quality sentences, translations, and corrections rather than trying to insist that everyone adhere to your interpretation of the rules?

I see both approaches being applied here, but you might be able to guess which one I think gets us closer to our goal.

Tepan Tepan February 22, 2021 February 22, 2021 at 4:14:48 PM UTC link Permalink

Dear Admins,

in my opinion, this sentence
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/4470815

violates the Tatoeba guidelines:
https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...how/guidelines

"Use correct capitalization and punctuation.
Sentences should be written in the normal way that an educated native speaker would write them."

My opinion is: either the guidelines are clear and can be followed, at which point you should react accordingly and block the author for repeatedly trolling us, or the guidelines are vague and should be updated in order to avoid lengthy discussions.

Regards
Stephan

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helloroto helloroto February 22, 2021 February 22, 2021 at 10:05:42 PM UTC link Permalink

Can the comments at least get shut down? It's just turned to vitriol

Thanuir Thanuir February 23, 2021 February 23, 2021 at 5:30:19 PM UTC link Permalink

Vaikka sacredceltic ei kerääkään itselleen ystäviä, taitaa hän kuitenkin olla oikeassa. Englanti, myös oikein kirjoitettu englanti, on hyvin laaja käsite. Tatoeba myös hyväksyy vanhahtavaa kieltä, murteita, slangia, ja niin edelleen, joten eiköhän se muutamista erilaisista pilkutustavoistakin selviä. Samoin erilaiset lainausmerkit ovat täysin hyväksyttäviä ja esimerkiksi koneoppimisen kannalta on jopa hyvä, jos sisältö on mahdollisimman monimuotoista.

Kuten aina, suosittelen että kukin keskittyy luomaan sellaista sisältöä, jota itse toivoo näkevänsä, ja antaa muiden tehdä samaa, kunhan ei selkeitä virheitä tule vastaan.

Ja ken omaa linkitysoikeuden voi samalla linkittää lauseet, jotka eroavat pelkällä välilyönnillä tai välilyönnin tyypillä toisistaan.

Tepan Tepan March 3, 2021 March 3, 2021 at 7:03:44 AM UTC link Permalink

@tatoebaadmins

Worth a bump!

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brauchinet brauchinet March 3, 2021 March 3, 2021 at 7:19:47 AM UTC link Permalink

> Worth a bump!
Shouldn't there be a space before the exclamation mark ?

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sacredceltic sacredceltic March 3, 2021 March 3, 2021 at 11:51:46 PM UTC link Permalink

Definitely !

Nero Nero March 4, 2021 March 4, 2021 at 2:54:38 PM UTC link Permalink

I agree. This kind of behavior has directly contributed to users leaving the project over the years. It's been the same nonsensical Dickens and typewriter arguments for probably 10 years now. The admins are and have been aware of this exact issue and other issues of this nature for years now and haven't taken action.

Your best course of action is to add the "non-standard punctuation" tag and move on. The other option is becoming annoyed enough with people injecting their political beliefs into spacing before punctuation that you too eventually leave the project.

Everyone knows that conventions are no replacement for a governing body for a language and therefore have no power to determine how a language is used...

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Ooneykcall Ooneykcall March 4, 2021 March 4, 2021 at 6:28:05 PM UTC link Permalink

A governing body has the power to control how you use language beyond official settings? What a totalitarian nightmare that would be!

helloroto helloroto March 4, 2021 March 4, 2021 at 6:49:31 PM UTC link Permalink

I guess it's over then.

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DJ_Saidez DJ_Saidez March 4, 2021 March 4, 2021 at 6:49:59 PM UTC link Permalink

Sadly, far from it

sacredceltic sacredceltic March 4, 2021 March 4, 2021 at 9:12:58 PM UTC link Permalink

You bet ?

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helloroto helloroto March 4, 2021 March 4, 2021 at 9:40:55 PM UTC link Permalink

I couldn't see the option to comment, so I assumed no one else could, so I assumed the discussion was over. I was wrong, it was getting really juicy.

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sacredceltic sacredceltic March 4, 2021 March 4, 2021 at 11:45:37 PM UTC link Permalink

Lorsque deux personnes sont du même avis, l’une d’elles est inutile.
Vive la dialectique et mort aux idées reçues !

LanguageExpert LanguageExpert March 4, 2021 March 4, 2021 at 4:48:56 AM UTC link Permalink

Hello everyone! I hope everyone's doing well. Anyway, on Internet Explorer, there's an unfortunate problem. First thing is that, it shows the latest sentences on the home screen, but the option to click on them doesn't show up. Also, the other problem on Internet Explorer that has been going on is that it doesn't let you click on "Stats per languages" or "Activity timeline."

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Thanuir Thanuir March 4, 2021 March 4, 2021 at 5:40:38 AM UTC link Permalink

Hei vaan! Olisiko mahdollista käyttää jotain muuta selainta kuin Internet exploreria? Microsoftkin nykyään tarjoaa Edge-selaintaan, ymmärtääkseni.

Objectivesea Objectivesea March 4, 2021 March 4, 2021 at 8:03:40 AM UTC link Permalink

Internet Explorer is deprecated now. It's better to use a standards-compliant browser like Firefox, Google Chrome, Safari or Opera. Even Microsoft's current product, Edge, is far better than Internet Explorer, which is no longer under development. Try viewing this and other sites in a more modern browser, and see if your particular problem with the Tatoeba site disappears. Good luck.

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LanguageExpert LanguageExpert March 4, 2021 March 4, 2021 at 8:09:13 AM UTC link Permalink

Thank you for your message! It works really well on Chrome! :)

CK CK March 4, 2021 March 4, 2021 at 12:24:50 AM UTC link Permalink

https://imgur.com/a/vIr5G3P

2 screenshots of the "Stats per Language" page.

March 4, 2021 and March 4, 2020

LisaBaker3 LisaBaker3 March 3, 2021 March 3, 2021 at 6:33:59 AM UTC link Permalink
warning

The content of this message goes against our rules and was therefore hidden. It is displayed only to admins and to the author of the message.

User74101 User74101 March 2, 2021, edited March 2, 2021 March 2, 2021 at 1:11:07 PM UTC, edited March 2, 2021 at 1:11:44 PM UTC link Permalink

#9809114

I need help about English here. Please comment. Only natives please.

sharptoothed sharptoothed March 1, 2021 March 1, 2021 at 5:59:46 PM UTC link Permalink

** Stats & Graphs **

Tatoeba Stats, Graphs & Charts have been updated:
https://tatoeba.j-langtools.com/allstats/

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DJ_Saidez DJ_Saidez March 1, 2021 March 1, 2021 at 6:11:13 PM UTC link Permalink

どうもありがとう

Guybrush88 Guybrush88 March 1, 2021 March 1, 2021 at 6:54:32 PM UTC link Permalink

thanks

CK CK February 28, 2021 February 28, 2021 at 5:19:12 AM UTC link Permalink

** Stats - 2021-02-27 **

English on List 907 with Native-speaker-owned Translations

http://tatoeba.ueuo.com/stats-2...907-links.html

This table shows the number of English sentences on my list of proofread English sentences that are linked to sentences in other languages owned by native speakers.

I've also included links for a random selection of English sentences with audio that do not yet have translations into these languages.

Native speakers translating these sentences will be helping me with several projects.

Sobsz Sobsz February 24, 2021, edited February 27, 2021 February 24, 2021 at 3:25:20 PM UTC, edited February 27, 2021 at 6:00:30 PM UTC link Permalink

would it be okay for me to mass-add ~6k sentence ids to a tatoeba list with a script?
i think it might be encouraged by `how to be a good contributor` point 11, but that might just apply to contributions to tatoeba itself (and i don't want my account restricted in case my actions are considered flooding)
also, if mass-importing is restricted to admins, mass-adding-to-a-list might be too

context: i want to translate english cc0 sentences (and set the translations to be cc0 too, once that functionality gets added) and maybe share the workload, but as far as i know there's no way to filter sentences by license

i asked about this earlier for another project but didn't get an answer, and jan Tomen ended up going through those sentences by himself anyway (praise be)

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Ricardo14 Ricardo14 February 24, 2021 February 24, 2021 at 11:14:05 PM UTC link Permalink

PMed you.

AlanF_US AlanF_US February 25, 2021 February 25, 2021 at 12:14:12 PM UTC link Permalink

The first line of your profile says "i come in here on some days to translate 30 sentences and mess up like half of them", and you don't give yourself five stars in any language. If you are accurate in your self-assessment, adding ~6K sentences at one shot would mean ~3K new sentences that need to be fixed. If you do end up deciding to add the sentences, please get them reviewed by someone first.

Also, in my experience, when someone adds a large number of sentences in one shot, they're generally near-duplicates. If you're adding translations, please try to select as diverse a set of original sentences as possible, perhaps with the help of random sort order.

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Sobsz Sobsz February 25, 2021 February 25, 2021 at 12:26:21 PM UTC link Permalink

i meant "adding to a list" as in clicking the list button (figuratively in this case) on existing sentences matching the criteria i want
i am not adding original sentences of my own, sorry for the misunderstanding

the line you quote is quite exaggerated, i thought it was funny but since it leads to miscommunication i might need to remove it
i do have some trouble with certain sentences, but i always mark my translations as `unsure` when that happens (in the hopes of having people review them, but at the very least as a warning)
that being said the sentences i'm listing do seem to be more complex on average (probably because none of them are from ck) so you have a point there, i'll leave the harder ones for when i'm more experienced

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AlanF_US AlanF_US February 25, 2021 February 25, 2021 at 12:34:44 PM UTC link Permalink

I see. That makes sense.

CK CK February 25, 2021, edited February 25, 2021 February 25, 2021 at 10:34:39 PM UTC, edited February 25, 2021 at 11:09:03 PM UTC link Permalink

This is apparently the list.

https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...ts/show/169276
CC0

Perhaps these are all the sentences that members have created and designated as public domain (CC0). If so, that means you can now use that list to limit your "advanced" searches to public domain sentences if you want to.



[EDIT - 30 minutes later]

I just checked. Last week's export had 33,4044 lines in this file.
https://downloads.tatoeba.org/e...es_CC0.tar.bz2

So, perhaps....

1. Sobsz only included CC0 sentences in languages he/she is studying.

2. Or perhaps to make the list more useful, Sobsz filtered out the massive number of Berber and Kabyle sentences and several other languages that didn't have translations before creating the list. I just tried doing that and the number of sentences is approximately the same as his/her list.

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Sobsz Sobsz February 26, 2021, edited February 26, 2021 February 26, 2021 at 7:30:04 AM UTC, edited February 26, 2021 at 10:38:11 AM UTC link Permalink

yeah i had to exclude kabyle because i didn't want to have my computer keep adding those sentences for a week
it's not a large loss since 60% of the kabyle sentences are cc0 anyway

@[didn't have translations] actually the goal for me was specifically to *make* some translations, in the hopes that i'll eventually be able to switch them to cc0
i don't think they'd be particularly useful to study given their low amount, but maybe in the future who knows

DostKaplan DostKaplan February 21, 2021, edited February 21, 2021 February 21, 2021 at 11:06:52 AM UTC, edited February 21, 2021 at 11:11:23 AM UTC link Permalink

I forget how to construct my query without any intervening words:

English -> Turkish
Search string: "Problem *ing"

I am looking for sentences like:
There is no problem doing this.

I don't want any intervening words.

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Cabo Cabo February 21, 2021 February 21, 2021 at 12:57:26 PM UTC link Permalink

use this: problem *ing - it shows sentences what you searching for
when you put in quotation marks * means an intervening word
https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...ow/text-search

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AlanF_US AlanF_US February 21, 2021, edited February 21, 2021 February 21, 2021 at 2:37:36 PM UTC, edited February 21, 2021 at 2:51:36 PM UTC link Permalink

DostKaplan, this is a good opportunity to use the proximity operator, which is a tilde (~). The search should be this:

"problem *ing"~1

which means "Search for 'problem' followed by a word ending with '-ing', separated by less than 1 intervening word."

If you use this:

problem *ing

(without quotation marks), you will get what you are searching for, but you'll also get some sentences where the words are not consecutive.

The proximity operator is described near the bottom of the page that Cabo mentioned.

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Cabo Cabo February 21, 2021 February 21, 2021 at 3:40:05 PM UTC link Permalink

You are right, that line is more efficient.
@DostKaplan
Actually that mentioned page is just a click from the advanced search table, you can reach by clicking the "more search options" button (and it also under the search button in the right side when you already made a search).
@AlanF_US
Everything is green, if you don't search for it you can't find it, may it would be better in other color.

brauchinet brauchinet February 21, 2021 February 21, 2021 at 4:27:01 PM UTC link Permalink

"problem *ing"~1
also finds sentences where the -ing word comes first: Tom is having problems; a drinking problem, ...

This one doesn't:
problem NEAR/1 *ing -"*ing problem"
(it's hard to understand the syntax)

Nonetheless, the fact that "problem *ing" only finds sentences with one intervening word is unintuitive and seems a bit like a bug.

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AlanF_US AlanF_US February 22, 2021 February 22, 2021 at 11:39:40 PM UTC link Permalink

You raise a good point:

"problem *ing"~1

also finds sentences where the -ing word comes first. Just to be clear for other people who might be reading this thead, this search query has the same issue:

problem NEAR/1 *ing

In both cases, to eliminate the words that are in the wrong order, you would need to use the same approach you took, namely to add this to the search query in order to subtract those hits explicitly:

-"*ing problem"

The behavior of "problem *ing" regarding the intervening word is indeed not what I'd expect, but it's not under our control.

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CK CK February 23, 2021 February 23, 2021 at 12:22:52 AM UTC link Permalink

Is there a possibility of changing some setting in the search engine we use to allow regex searches like the following?

\bproblem \b[a-z]+ing\b

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gillux gillux February 25, 2021 February 25, 2021 at 1:17:49 AM UTC link Permalink

No.