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Dejo Dejo November 7, 2010 November 7, 2010 at 3:30:39 AM UTC link Permalink

Bienvenido Arashi!

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arashi_29 arashi_29 November 7, 2010 November 7, 2010 at 3:37:37 AM UTC link Permalink

Gracias por la bienvenida, este sitio es muy interesante.

kroko kroko November 4, 2010 November 4, 2010 at 12:25:03 PM UTC link Permalink

Gekaraj samideanoj, mi ne ŝatas la ideon ke Tatoeba havas multajn frazojn ne rekte tradukita al ĉiuj lingvoj.

Do, bonvolu helpi min traduki ĝin je via gepatra lingvo. Dankon!

Kio fari tion? --> Do,
1. klaku al la esperanta flago
2. elektu "Ne rekte tradukita al:" je la dekstra flanko
3. elektu "Ĉiuj lingvoj"
4. nun traduku ĝin ^^

Koran dankon!

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sacredceltic sacredceltic November 4, 2010 November 4, 2010 at 2:23:14 PM UTC link Permalink

Kara kroko,

la kialo por la multaj esperantan ne-tradukitaj frazoj estas ke Pliiganto aldonis ĉiujn frazojn el lia libro. Mi diris al li ke Tatoeba ne estas la loko por tio, sed li kopiis spite...

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ludoviko ludoviko November 7, 2010 November 7, 2010 at 8:53:38 AM UTC link Permalink

Estis 2641 netradukitaj Esperanto-frazoj antaŭ kelkaj tagoj, estas 2685 nun. Do pliiganto pli rapide aldonas novajn frazojn sen traduko ol ni sukcesas/emas aldoni tradukojn.

There were 2641 Esperanto sentences not translated to any language, ther are 2685 now. So it seems pliiganto more rapidly puts new sentences without translation than we are able/willing to provide translations.

Do the moderators agree with adding lots of sentences without translations, e.g. simply copying them from a book?

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TRANG TRANG November 7, 2010 November 7, 2010 at 9:36:46 AM UTC link Permalink

> Do the moderators agree with adding lots of sentences
> without translations, e.g. simply copying them from a
> book?

Yes, we're okay with people adding lots of sentences without translations.

But we're NOT okay with people copying content from a book (or anywhere) that is not compatible with a CC-BY license. It's a legal issue...

Anyway, someone has warned me that sentences from pliiganto are not very good quality. I think Tatoeba day would be a good occasion to correct and translate them into other languages, to improve them.

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sysko sysko November 7, 2010 November 7, 2010 at 9:50:15 AM UTC link Permalink

in fact there the problem is not legal issue as he's the author of this book, but rather the quality and "usefullness" of these sentences. In the past I've already warned Pliiganto to not add blindy thousand of sentences this way, because some are either too long, to short or depend to much of the context bringing by the other sentences that we can't have in tatoeba as we see each sentences independantly.

So I think I've nothing against mass adding of sentences in a single language, but at least we want to be sure they're suitable for tatoeba's users not only a "Hey I've downloaded all the ebooks on wikibooks and I splitted them, here come 12 millions new sentences".

So for now, we will try to pay more attention to this kind of behaviour, at least I hope Pliiganto will let time to the community to "digest" his contributions and that he will help to do so, rather than to continue adding new sentences (if he don't do so, warn me and Trang and we will "force" him to not add new sentences)

And in the future, don't hesitate (as you've done) to warn us when someone start to act so, this way we will be able to find a solution with the futures "mass adding" guys before it becomes "too much".

kroko kroko November 4, 2010 November 4, 2010 at 3:42:02 PM UTC link Permalink

Kaj nun nur ni, kiu komprenas tiujn frazojn, povos kuraci tiun aferon. Ĉu ne?

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sacredceltic sacredceltic November 4, 2010 November 4, 2010 at 4:07:46 PM UTC link Permalink

Mi pensas ke ni ne devas traduki frazojn el libroj. Tatoeba pritraktas ekzemplajn frazojn, ne librojn.
Plie, tiuj frazoj priparolas esperanton, kaj ŝajnas kiel propagando.
Mi pensas ke esperanto ĉe tatoeba devas esti egala lingvo al la aliaj. Propagandi malhelpas...

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kroko kroko November 4, 2010 November 4, 2010 at 4:43:09 PM UTC link Permalink

Krome, ekzistas ne esperantajn frazojn ĉe Tatoeba kiu ankaŭ estas kopiinta el libroj. Ekzemple el la biblio, el la nobla korano, ktp.
Kelkaj Esperantistoj troigis kopii. Prave. Ne devus fari iom...^^
Paroli ofte helpas.

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sacredceltic sacredceltic November 4, 2010 November 4, 2010 at 4:49:17 PM UTC link Permalink

Sed pli ol 2500 frazoj ne estas "iom"...

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kroko kroko November 4, 2010 November 4, 2010 at 4:57:36 PM UTC link Permalink

Prave. Estas tro multe, kiel mi skribis.
Eble ni devos alĝustigi la Tateobeajn regulojn.

kroko kroko November 4, 2010 November 4, 2010 at 4:35:38 PM UTC link Permalink

Propagandi malhelpas - mi kapjesas. Prave! Do, kio faru nun? Mi pensas ke Tatoeba ekis kun multajn ekzemplajn frazojn. Angla kaj japana. El ili Tatoeba altas. Tiuj unuaj frazoj estis de kie? El memoro? El libroj? Do, egalas nun laŭ mia opinio. Ili nun havas tradukojn kaj posedantojn. Neniu demandas nun.
Mi nur malŝatas la fakton ke Esperanto havas la plej grandan frazaron el ĉiuj lingvoj kiu restas sola sen traduko. Tiu afero ege malhelpas la esperantan staton ĉe Tatoeba. Sed mi opinias ke tiu afero estas kuracebla.
Krome, mi neniam tradukos propagandajn frazojn. Mi nur tradukos frazojn kio plaĉas al mi.
Kaj krom tio mi helpas la germana stato ĉe Tatoeba, do Tatoeba perdos neniom. Ĉu vi kontraŭas?

GrizaLeono GrizaLeono November 6, 2010 November 6, 2010 at 10:34:28 AM UTC link Permalink

Mi opinias, ke ĉiu Esperantisto scipovas almenaŭ unu alian lingvon, plejofte plurajn.
KIU ALDONAS NOVAN ESPERANTAN FRAZON DEVUS MEM KAJ TUJ ALDONI TRADUKON EN ALMENAŬ UNU EL SIAJ ALIAJ LINGVOJ.
Amike salutas Leo

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Eldad Eldad November 7, 2010 November 7, 2010 at 12:08:39 AM UTC link Permalink

Jes, certe. Mi subtenas tion. Se la frazo estas en Esperanto originale, ĝi nepre havu ankaŭ tradukon en almenaŭ unu alian lingvon.

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Hans07 Hans07 December 11, 2010 December 11, 2010 at 9:00:34 PM UTC link Permalink

Jes!

Dejo Dejo November 4, 2010 November 4, 2010 at 10:07:50 PM UTC link Permalink

Multaj el la netradukitaj esperantaj frazoj estas duoblaĵoj. Tuj kiam mi komencis traduki ilin al la angla oni notis tion kaj forigis ilin.

CLARET CLARET November 5, 2010 November 5, 2010 at 7:15:45 AM UTC link Permalink

有没有学法语的?

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sysko sysko November 5, 2010 November 5, 2010 at 7:17:04 AM UTC link Permalink

至少有很多法国人:)

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CLARET CLARET November 5, 2010 November 5, 2010 at 7:17:52 AM UTC link Permalink

怎么样才能找到这里的法国人呢?谢谢

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sysko sysko November 5, 2010 November 5, 2010 at 7:22:48 AM UTC link Permalink

你已经找到一个(我:p)
我觉得你在这里用法语写一个message 就行:)

Pharamp Pharamp November 4, 2010 November 4, 2010 at 3:41:38 PM UTC link Permalink

Two little messages concerning new Italian and Lojban users/entries:

Italiano: è possibile rendere dirette delle traduzioni indirette, ma possono farlo solo i trusted_users e i moderatori.
Ovviamente potete richiederlo nei commenti! Basta scrivere i collegamenti possibili sotto qualsiasi frase e la prima persona che passa provvederà!
È molto importante avere frasi con tanti collegamenti, quindi sfruttateli il più possibile, visto che per ora le frasi italiane hanno principalmente traduzioni dirette in inglese, francese o spagnolo :)

Lojban: it's possible to make direct translations from indirect translations, but only trusted_users and moderators can.
Feel free to request it in the comments! Just write the possible links under any sentence and the first person who sees it will do it!
It's very important to have sentences with a lot of links, so take advantage of them as much as possible, as Lojban language is a new entry here on Tatoeba! :)

Happy contributing to everyone!

TRANG TRANG November 2, 2010 November 2, 2010 at 6:43:53 AM UTC link Permalink

To the Esperanto and German contributors, thank you for all your contributions!

I'm very sorry I won't be tweeting about languages reaching important milestones anymore. I think instead I'll publish stats every month about the progress of each language, because I can't keep up... It's going too fast for me! Feel free to tweet about it yourself though, if you have a Twitter account (or any microblogging account)!

I may still be tweeting about the 10,000+ milestone (and the 100,000+ milestone, when that happens). Otherwise, I suppose the "Tatoeba day" would be a good day to publish stats :) It would be a day where devoted Tatoeba members would try to break the record of number of sentences added in one day (currently at 3465 sentences, on Aug 18th). I hope you guys are ready for it! November 13th!

=> http://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/sho...2#message_3582

I'll write more about it this weekend.


In the meantime, I'm getting prepared to go to the Drumbeat Festival: http://www.drumbeat.org/festival/.

I'll be presenting Tatoeba to people during the "Science Fair" taking place on Wednesday evening, 9PM - 11PM (Spain time). I'll demo on my laptop and I'm going to try to get some people to actually register and add a few contributions themselves, so they can fully experience Tatoeba instead of just watching me do stuff...

Be attentive of new contributors that day if you are on Tatoeba! Try to translate their sentences whenever you can, and don't forget to say a little "Welcome!" if you are going to comment a new user's sentence :)

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ludoviko ludoviko November 2, 2010 November 2, 2010 at 5:51:34 PM UTC link Permalink

* Tatoeba quality day *

Besides a "Tatoeba day" for a great number of sentences I would very much like a "Tatoeba quality day". On that day we would try to adopt sentences, correct them or add links in existing translation chains (maybe by the method FeuDRenais proposed, adding a duplicate sentence with many links).

* Stats *

For the quality of Tatoeba the interesting numbers would be

- the number of unadopted sentences in every language,
- the number of sentences without any translation and
- the length of translation chains (longest way in the graphs; not easy for programmers :-)

Programming: It still would be nice to be able to find unadopted sentences. (Or is it already done?)

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debian2007 debian2007 November 4, 2010 November 4, 2010 at 11:07:59 AM UTC link Permalink

It is my first try, I am sure it has mistakes. Still >:D.
Anyone need a perl/php/clojure script? (Mine was written in perl).
Orphan sentences based on downloadable *.csv files:
1) 5616
2) If you do not find a language, maybe it does not have orphans:
acm 1
ara 57
arz 1
bul 6
cat 3
ces 3
cmn 99
dan 4
deu 123
eng 664
epo 2641
est 21
eus 26
fin 5
fra 601
fry 5
heb 15
hin 4
hun 20
ind 13
isl 6
ita 176
jpn 151
kat 9
kor 6
mon 3
nld 182
nob 15
orv 3
pes 36
pol 17
por 47
ron 3
rus 283
slk 1
spa 63
sqi 2
swe 3
tur 12
uig 7
ukr 235
urd 1
vie 32
yue 1
zsm 1
3) How can you increase quality of tatoeba project, if someone able to provide the longest chain stats? (I am not good at graph theory, I do not see the reason of creating the abovementioned graph.)

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TRANG TRANG November 7, 2010 November 7, 2010 at 9:57:40 AM UTC link Permalink

By the way, we usually say a sentence is "orphan" when it doesn't belong to anyone. So this is not the kind of information you would be able to retrieve from the CSV files because we don't export the username of the owner.

What you did was figure out the number of untranslated sentences (sentences that don't have any translations at all), I think.

At any rate, thanks your work! I like http://similar.uw.hu/ :D

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boracasli boracasli November 7, 2010 November 7, 2010 at 10:18:51 AM UTC link Permalink

I'm trusting all the Tatoeba team! Proud to be Tatoebaholic. And I will trust all.

I didn't know Tatoeba while I use the Tatoeba in the first time. And I thought Tatoeba as a word database. But now, I know the all of your Tatoeba very good. Thanks for creating! And thanks for helping to the language learners!

sysko sysko November 4, 2010 November 4, 2010 at 12:07:07 PM UTC link Permalink

thank you for this :) otherwise I feel guilty to not have time to make these kind of things recently (my new job is really time consuming :( )

3) In fact it's maybe more "the longest 'shortest path' between 2 sentences", maybe it can be usefusul to see if some linking are possible ? but it's a bit more tricky , as it can be 2 sentences of the same language, moreover if the chain is very long it's highly possible that there is a "telephone" effect (for example Shanghainese use the same sentence for "good night" and "see you tomorow" , and maybe French will use the same sentence for "good night" and "good evening" etc) inside this sub-graph.
Anyway for the moment due to current database architecture, this kind of algorithm, though easy to "code" will take too much time and ressource, but fortunately the new database architecture we're going to use (thanks to zmoo's work) will permit us to solve all this "graph" related questions :)

debian2007 debian2007 November 7, 2010 November 7, 2010 at 4:46:49 AM UTC link Permalink

More about stats. Maybe I should not return to 4 days old discussion, but anyway.. When I hear the word "quality", I always think about creativity. I mean, err, I am lazy to translate sentences like: "I am a dentist." "She can not speak *." "Today/Tomorrow he is going to *.". Eh, maybe you get it, no offense.

So what if I could somehow measure, what sentences may appeared already in some form in Tatoeba. But it is impossible?! Well, because I do not have 50MB SQL free space (Tatoeba sentences), you can "measure" only one sentence here, only availabe for top 5 languages (but not Japanese, it is complex):
http://similar.uw.hu/
For every word there are some statistics: how many times written in Tatoeba, frequent words in the corpus, not so frequent word. So give it a try! Maybe I am the only one who is missing this feature :_)
(This is not an advertisement! It is a demonstration site! I hope Unicode will work well in your browser.)

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sysko sysko November 7, 2010 November 7, 2010 at 7:51:00 AM UTC link Permalink

no offense at all, we know that tatoeba would be even better with plenty of tools like you did, I will maybe sound like an old guy always repeating itself, but these kind of tools are missing for the moment for 2 main reasons

1 - lack of time, well unfortunately as this is a free project, we can work on it only during our free time, which is really hard for to me to find these days (and it seems for Trang too), so the last months were about coding all the basic features to provide a "survival" set of tools ^^

2 - lack of ressource, as it's a free project, we don't have plenty of servers ready to make all the algorithms we have in our head and you may have too, we have only one little server, I spend a lot of time optimizing stuff so it can handle the 2000 new sentences / day + all the search request + all the random sentences etc. and so when adding a new feature we always need to keep in mind "will it be too heavy if 10 people use it in the same time hundred times a day"

but anyway we're really happy when we see you, ck, swift and others making features we didn't have time to do (or maybe we just didn't think about it / didn't now how to do it :) ) and I really hope in a near future we will be able to integrate your work in tatoeba.

Demetrius Demetrius November 2, 2010 November 2, 2010 at 6:59:20 PM UTC link Permalink

I agree it's a nice idea.

(BTW, you can already look the number of sentences without any translation in a certain language. Just click on any flag and select “Not directly translated into: All languages”. E.g. 2793 for Esperanto, 685 for English, 291 for Russian, 235 for Ukrainian, 0 in Belarusian :D... There is no way to know the overall number of untranslated sentences, however.)

Pharamp Pharamp November 2, 2010 November 2, 2010 at 9:17:06 PM UTC link Permalink

>>> Programming: It still would be nice to be able to find unadopted sentences. (Or is it already done?)

Sysko can :) He did it for me for Italian.

sacredceltic sacredceltic November 2, 2010 November 2, 2010 at 8:53:21 AM UTC link Permalink

>To the Esperanto and German contributors, thank you for all your contributions!

Merci pour les contributeurs du français, aucune notification n'a été faite quand il a atteint les 50.000 ...

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sysko sysko November 2, 2010 November 2, 2010 at 9:50:35 AM UTC link Permalink

c'est parce qu'on veut pas démoraliser nos amis espérantistes :p

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sacredceltic sacredceltic November 2, 2010 November 2, 2010 at 9:57:41 AM UTC link Permalink

Les psychologues nomment "haine de soi" l'excès de sympathie à l'égard des autres communautés au détriment de la sienne propre.

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sysko sysko November 2, 2010 November 2, 2010 at 10:51:30 AM UTC link Permalink

arf :( c'est ça que je casse tous les miroirs chez moi

TRANG TRANG November 2, 2010 November 2, 2010 at 9:30:30 AM UTC link Permalink

Oui, pardon ! Évidemment, merci aussi à tous les contributeurs du français :)

Il faut pas hésiter à écrire un message sur le Mur quand ça atteindra 60 000.

Sigma Sigma November 2, 2010 November 2, 2010 at 4:09:50 PM UTC link Permalink

Olá, abraço a todos. Tenham uma ótima semana.

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brauliobezerra brauliobezerra November 2, 2010 November 2, 2010 at 4:16:17 PM UTC link Permalink

Olá!
De onde você é? Se for do Brasil, aproveite o feriado para adicionar algumas frases :P

FeuDRenais FeuDRenais November 2, 2010 November 2, 2010 at 2:55:06 AM UTC link Permalink

Another sentence that mysteriously "disappeared":

http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/489392

Why is this happening?

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TRANG TRANG November 2, 2010 November 2, 2010 at 5:55:11 AM UTC link Permalink

I don't have time to investigate right now but I'm guessing that the duplicate removal script doesn't take into consideration the date of the sentence :S

So your sentences would disappear because other people happen to add exactly the same ones, after you...

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sysko sysko November 2, 2010 November 2, 2010 at 6:02:09 AM UTC link Permalink

no it's a bug :(
because it does take in account the date (to avoid people adding the same sentence right after you only in order to become the owner of this sentence)

but at least i've stopped the script as soon as blay paul reported the first sentence which had disappeared.
Fortunately with the back up it should be possible to ressurect them, so they're not definitely lost.

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FeuDRenais FeuDRenais November 2, 2010 November 2, 2010 at 3:26:51 PM UTC link Permalink

This one was too original to have a duplicate. I don't see how the duplicate script would be related.

brauliobezerra brauliobezerra October 31, 2010 October 31, 2010 at 2:42:31 PM UTC link Permalink

Question: should I delete my comments requesting corrections after the sentence is corrected?

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Pharamp Pharamp October 31, 2010 October 31, 2010 at 5:38:42 PM UTC link Permalink

I don't think so, but you have to remove the tag @change(_something), if you put it (and you must put it!! :P).

Swift Swift November 1, 2010 November 1, 2010 at 11:01:38 AM UTC link Permalink

It's up to you. If the owner left a reply, it might be better to leave it so that it doesn't look odd.

boracasli boracasli October 30, 2010 October 30, 2010 at 7:16:28 AM UTC link Permalink

お元気ですか? 私ワboracasli。

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Demetrius Demetrius November 1, 2010 November 1, 2010 at 9:39:16 AM UTC link Permalink

はい、元気です。私はドミトリーです。でも、日本語を話しません。 :(

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Demetrius Demetrius November 1, 2010 November 1, 2010 at 9:41:04 AM UTC link Permalink

Google Translate thinks ドミトリー is a dormitory, not Dmitry. =) LOL.

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Swift Swift November 1, 2010 November 1, 2010 at 10:50:47 AM UTC link Permalink

You wouldn't transcribe it "デミトリ"?

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Demetrius Demetrius November 1, 2010 November 1, 2010 at 11:10:53 AM UTC link Permalink

I think デミトリ would imply D is palatised, while it isn't (/ˈdmʲitrʲɪj/).[1]

Japanese Wikipedia seems to call my namesakes ドミートリー. But it has a redirect from ドミトリー・メドヴェージェフ to ドミートリー・メドヴェージェフ, so I think ドミトリー is possible too.

[1] Well, theoretically it can be... But I've never heard anyone saying /ˈdʲmʲitʲrʲɪj/. ^^ I believe this pronunciation is really archaic.

slavneui slavneui October 31, 2010 October 31, 2010 at 8:09:31 PM UTC link Permalink

What is the easiest way to respond to a comment on a phrase that I own?
Thxs

Kiel plej facile reagi al komento pri frazo kiun mi posedas?
Dankon.

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jakov jakov October 31, 2010 October 31, 2010 at 11:08:23 PM UTC link Permalink

Vi povas mem komenti vian frazon. Sekve la alia uzanto devus ricevi retposxton pri via komento.

You can comment to your own sentence, so the other user should get an email about this (if sHe didnt opt this out)