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Dorenda Dorenda April 14, 2010 April 14, 2010 at 7:35:55 PM UTC link Permalink

There are two sets of sentences, one saying that Latin is a highly inflected language, and the other saying that Latin is a dead language, and they're linked. I think the Polish and Ukrainian sentences that link them should be unlinked, so that they become two seperate sets, but both owners of these sentences are not trusted users. Can you do that, TRANG, or someone else?
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/352492

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TRANG TRANG April 14, 2010 April 14, 2010 at 9:45:07 PM UTC link Permalink

Okay, done. I could make zipangu a trusted user as well, but he hasn't been back in a while...

Dorenda Dorenda April 14, 2010 April 14, 2010 at 1:49:57 PM UTC link Permalink

Removing sentences from my list of favourites doesn't seem to work. Is it just me, or do others have the same?

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MUIRIEL MUIRIEL April 14, 2010 April 14, 2010 at 4:34:37 PM UTC link Permalink

yes, same for me.

TRANG TRANG April 14, 2010 April 14, 2010 at 9:32:42 PM UTC link Permalink

It should be fixed :)

Dorenda Dorenda April 12, 2010 April 12, 2010 at 12:21:09 PM UTC link Permalink

Maybe someone else has suggested this already, but here's my suggestion for an improvement of the site.
I think it would be really nice if it would be possible to search without entering a specific word or sentence, but just by specifying the language. What I mean is, to search for sentences in language X that have/don't have an (indirect) translation in language Y. Or maybe even with multiple languages for X or Y.
Then I could search for sentences (possibly in a certain language) that don't have a translation yet in Dutch in order to translate them. It'd be much more efficient than the "random sentences" thing that is there now, cause after a while half of the sentences that it gives are sentences that I've already translated. And when you are looking for sentences in order to learn them, this feature would be practical if you don't want to learn sentences about a particular topic, but just about anything.

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TRANG TRANG April 12, 2010 April 12, 2010 at 2:27:42 PM UTC link Permalink

But in the meantime, you can ask me, and I will create a list :)

For instance, for zmoo, I have created a list of Russian sentences that don't have any translation into French.
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences_lists/edit/40

If you want something similar for Dutch or any other language, just ask :)

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Dorenda Dorenda April 12, 2010 April 12, 2010 at 7:12:03 PM UTC link Permalink

Good to hear it's in the plans. :)

A list sounds good. Could you make one with Russian and German sentences without Dutch translation (and possibly also Ukrainian sentences, but I think I translated almost all of them except a few that I can't come up with a good translation for)?

Would such a list include sentences which are indirectly linked to a Dutch translation? With the random sentences generator I sometimes get Russian sentences that are linked to a Dutch translation via English and Ukrainian, for example, (but which could be linked directly also, I just can't do that) so the chain is too long and Dutch isn't shown in the list of translations. Now I still remember which sentences I already translated, but I don't know how well I will remember after a thousand or so more translations, so I might end up making duplicates or I have to check all the time. :)

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TRANG TRANG April 12, 2010 April 12, 2010 at 8:06:34 PM UTC link Permalink

Alright, here are your lists.

Russian -> Dutch:
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences_lists/edit/51

German -> Dutch:
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences_lists/edit/52

Ukrainian -> Dutch:
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences_lists/edit/53

They include sentences that do *not* have *direct* translations into Dutch. But it's possible that they have an indirect translation. I will grant you the "trusted user" status so that you can turn them into direct translations (by using the "link" feature).

There are two things you need to know about linking/unlinking:
1) You can only link/unlink sentences when the main sentence (=the top sentence) belongs to you.
2) If you adopt a sentence, you need to refresh before you see the link/unlink icons.

And then I have to force you to read this entirely: http://blog.tatoeba.org/2010/02...n-tatoeba.html
(if you haven't read it already)
Anyone who is a trusted user must read it :P

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Dorenda Dorenda April 12, 2010 April 12, 2010 at 11:28:08 PM UTC link Permalink

Thank you for the lists and for your trust in me. :)
I already read about how to be a good contributor, so I'm absolutely fine with the requirement to read it. ;)

I'm not sure about the other two lists, but in the Ukrainian list there are also sentences that do have a direct Dutch translation, so it seems to be just a list of all (or at least the first 200) Ukrainian sentences...

Anyway, I'll start linking my sentences to all the other sentences that they can be linked to first. :)

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TRANG TRANG April 12, 2010 April 12, 2010 at 11:41:53 PM UTC link Permalink

Ah right, I made a mistake for the Ukrainian sentences. Now it should be good.

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Dorenda Dorenda April 13, 2010 April 13, 2010 at 1:07:18 AM UTC link Permalink

That looks better. Thanks. :)

Dorenda Dorenda April 29, 2010 April 29, 2010 at 8:59:23 PM UTC link Permalink

I more or less finished translating those three lists. Could you make me another two lists with Russian and German sentences (or refill the existing lists with new sentences)? The Ukrainian list can be deleted.
Thanks. :)

sysko sysko April 12, 2010 April 12, 2010 at 12:59:42 PM UTC link Permalink

Yep it has already been requested (first by ourselves :p) we plan to have a panel to have advanced search option, to be able to search not only by requesting words, but by more option (not translated in X , translated by user Y etc... )

for the moment we're planning to migrate to an other server to make the website faster and more reactiv, but as a lot of people seems to want it, we will try to implemenent it ASAP

saeb saeb April 11, 2010 April 11, 2010 at 10:35:58 AM UTC link Permalink

Question...let's say you wanna check up on someone who's doing a lengthy task...in english you might say: "where did you reach?" or "where you at?"...sth along these lines...Now I'm curious, how would you say that in japanese in this situation?

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TRANG TRANG April 11, 2010 April 11, 2010 at 7:41:57 PM UTC link Permalink

You may have more chance asking this in other more populated forums if you want an answer ^^ We still don't have any native Japanese speakers hanging around here =(

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saeb saeb April 11, 2010 April 11, 2010 at 9:00:54 PM UTC link Permalink

yeah that...1 wk+ on 5 sites and no reply...tough world we're living in.

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blay_paul blay_paul April 11, 2010 April 11, 2010 at 11:22:14 PM UTC link Permalink

Well it's a bit of a vague question, with a large number of possible answers. To pick one ...

仕事はどこまで進んでいる?

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saeb saeb April 12, 2010 April 12, 2010 at 4:08:51 AM UTC link Permalink

yes, yes どこまで, where was that! thank you so much, you know if you were close by I would've sent you a piece of the cake we baked today :P.

But 進んでいる doesn't sound like sth 'cool' to say :P, anyway will look for that on my own :)

contour contour April 11, 2010 April 11, 2010 at 4:21:03 PM UTC link Permalink

The sentence view is broken now.

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Pharamp Pharamp April 11, 2010 April 11, 2010 at 4:23:38 PM UTC link Permalink

yes for me too :(

TRANG TRANG April 11, 2010 April 11, 2010 at 7:40:22 PM UTC link Permalink

I'm re-posting with my "real" account... I used by mistake my "test" account (tranglich) earlier.

So for the explaination, we were updating Tatoeba in order to integrate some bugfixes, but we hadn't really tested everything properly =/

I was thinking, perhaps some of you guys (not only contour and Pharamp, but anyone reading this) would be interested in being our beta testers, or as I prefer to call it "bug hunters".

Send me a PM if you are interested :)

blay_paul blay_paul April 10, 2010 April 10, 2010 at 7:16:47 PM UTC link Permalink

Notes on interface translations

Typo in translation item 497

This tool is in a very early stage, and we're looking forward people who can help us ameliorate the transcription by provindg IPA of non-converted characters or reporting mistakes.

Should be 'providing'.

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blay_paul blay_paul April 10, 2010 April 10, 2010 at 7:21:13 PM UTC link Permalink

Also (same item) should be "looking for people" not "looking forward people".

sysko sysko April 10, 2010 April 10, 2010 at 8:16:03 PM UTC link Permalink

ok thanks, that the correction will appear on next launchpad update

blay_paul blay_paul April 10, 2010 April 10, 2010 at 12:42:22 PM UTC link Permalink

Could the link to
http://subversion.assembla.com/...ba2/trunk/app/
be stuck somewhere noticeable? (here, in launch pad, or on the blog).

Bump.

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TRANG TRANG April 10, 2010 April 10, 2010 at 3:56:30 PM UTC link Permalink

Sorry I forgot about that. I modified the extraction script so that it the full path is displayed in "Location" in Launchpad.

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blay_paul blay_paul April 10, 2010 April 10, 2010 at 4:06:55 PM UTC link Permalink

Thanks.

Dorenda Dorenda April 10, 2010 April 10, 2010 at 3:11:24 PM UTC link Permalink

What do those [M] and [F] tags mean that some sentences have attached to the end?
And in those sentences that have stuff like {this}{1}, should I add that in the translation as well, or is it just some remnant from the past and not important? I'm wondering, because we're told not to annotate sentences, but I'm not sure if this is considered annotating or not.

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blay_paul blay_paul April 10, 2010 April 10, 2010 at 3:41:05 PM UTC link Permalink

The [M] and [F] flags are only required in English sentences used in WWWJDIC. Ideally that information would be stored separately from the main sentence text and added as required later.

The {stuff}{1} like {this}{2} is an old mark-up system that is not currently in use. I would not add it anywhere it isn't already used, and Jim doesn't want it near the sentences he uses with WWWJDIC. ;-)

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Dorenda Dorenda April 10, 2010 April 10, 2010 at 4:38:42 PM UTC link Permalink

I see. Thank you. :)

saeb saeb April 8, 2010 April 8, 2010 at 2:35:05 AM UTC link Permalink

I was just wondering, would mining sentences from speeches be okay? (since speeches are in the public domain right?)

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TRANG TRANG April 8, 2010 April 8, 2010 at 10:04:38 PM UTC link Permalink

I actually have no idea if every speech is in the public domain. But if you are only adding one or two sentences from a speech, then you should be fine. If you are adding the whole speech, then do make sure that it is in the public domain.

I would still encourage you to translate what is already here though. It wouldn't be very productive for you to add manually, one by one, sentences from a long text :P
Because yes, we will someday have a feature for mass adding.

As for having a special section for long text, we surely will have that too, someday. But in a much much more distant future than the mass adding. There is still a lot to do with sentences, before we move on to long texts.

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saeb saeb April 8, 2010 April 8, 2010 at 10:37:01 PM UTC link Permalink

you know, a translated sentence will always be a translated sentence...at least for Arabic, I can always tell if a sentence was translated no matter how good the translator is...so I'm mixing both mining sentences from native sources and translating existing sentences.
(looking forward to all the cool stuff that will be added to tatoeba :), I'm patient though afterall it took wikipedia a couple of years to become what it is...)

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brauliobezerra brauliobezerra April 10, 2010 April 10, 2010 at 2:05:00 PM UTC link Permalink

There is no natural way to say "The book is on the table" in Arabic? I don't speak Arabic, but I guess a good translator wouldn't try to keep the same sentence structure or even the very exact meaning if this produces an unnatural sentence. In Portuguese, French and Spanish I'm pretty sure we can say that there is a book on a table in a very natural way.

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saeb saeb April 10, 2010 April 10, 2010 at 2:30:33 PM UTC link Permalink

:D you got me there...simple short sentences are hard to argue against :)...but I'm pretty sure I've never used such a...uhm lame and simplistic sentence.

I don't know...I guess to get a native sounding sentence...you need context...a life situation...but then your translated sentence might end up being..."too native"...basically loose direct connection to what's being translated...because of idiomatic and figurative usage

Maybe I'm thinking too much :D

saeb saeb April 8, 2010 April 8, 2010 at 4:53:11 AM UTC link Permalink

One more question (sorry), is there any plans in the future for mass adding of sentences to tatoeba?
[for example importing sentences to tatoeba from a txt file of for e.g. sentences separated by white characters]

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sysko sysko April 8, 2010 April 8, 2010 at 9:30:01 AM UTC link Permalink

No problem at all with questions, that show us there are people interested in Tatoeba :D, yep in the future we would like too, because I have a big anki deck with a lot of example sentences, and an other user too (and maybe others), and as long as the sentences respect copyright law and so, it will be really good to have them in tatoeba too
but to be honnest I don't when we will implement this, in fact if several people send us tab separated files, then it will be implemented sooner :P
but as I've said to an other user, at least for the moment, me and Trang can import them in tatoeba database even if there's no possibility for users yet

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saeb saeb April 9, 2010 April 9, 2010 at 7:47:01 AM UTC link Permalink

hmmm...tell me more about the tab separated files...how should the format go...sentence,tab,translation...?

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sysko sysko April 9, 2010 April 9, 2010 at 11:26:43 AM UTC link Permalink

yep this way
sentence1[tab]translation1
sentence2[tab]translation2

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saeb saeb April 9, 2010 April 9, 2010 at 2:02:17 PM UTC link Permalink

so I take it there's a \n between the 2 entries? (mass adding here I come :P)

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sysko sysko April 9, 2010 April 9, 2010 at 2:17:08 PM UTC link Permalink

yep SENTENCE1\tTRANSLATION1\nSENTENCE2 etc... :)

sysko sysko April 8, 2010 April 8, 2010 at 9:24:53 AM UTC link Permalink

In the absolute it's not a problem for me, but maybe then we can put them in a special section, reserved for long text, this way you will not need to worry about the current sentence length limitation and moreover this way people who're looking for long text, will find them easily
what do you think?
and Trang ?

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saeb saeb April 8, 2010 April 8, 2010 at 9:29:19 AM UTC link Permalink

That would be sweet! you know, then people could just go on adding short fairy tales...

saeb saeb April 8, 2010 April 8, 2010 at 2:45:20 AM UTC link Permalink

and is there a limit on the number of characters a sentence on tatoeba can contain?

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sysko sysko April 8, 2010 April 8, 2010 at 9:22:30 AM UTC link Permalink

500 characters exactly, I think we will need to add this when people add sentences :P

saeb saeb April 8, 2010 April 8, 2010 at 12:34:54 PM UTC link Permalink

It took a while, but finally 2,000+ sentences in arabic...I already feel it's gonna take longer to reach 3,000 (zipang! how did you reach over 9,000 in no time?! god-like)

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sysko sysko April 8, 2010 April 8, 2010 at 12:42:32 PM UTC link Permalink

I think Zipangu has developped some mantra for this :P
anyway, congrat to have reached 2,000+ sentences in arabic it's already amazing :)

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saeb saeb April 8, 2010 April 8, 2010 at 12:51:02 PM UTC link Permalink

thx sysko :), are you studying arabic behind our backs?...other than that idk how arabic can be amazing :P (lol @mantra)