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hasenj hasenj August 8, 2010 August 8, 2010 at 8:06:41 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Thanks for adding Iraq Arabic.

Now, can you make it right to left? like Arabic and Egyptian Arabic.

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sysko sysko August 8, 2010 August 8, 2010 at 10:51:41 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

sorry, now it's should be ok:)

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hasenj hasenj August 8, 2010 August 8, 2010 at 9:28:50 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Thanks :D

minshirui minshirui August 8, 2010 August 8, 2010 at 5:16:16 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Thank you for adding Hindi to the list of languages! हिन्दी को तातोएबा में सम्मिलित करने के लिए बहुत बहुत धन्यवाद!

Just one question: is there an easy way for me to mark the few hundreds of sentences I have added in Hindi as being in Hindi? It would be very painful if I had to set that manually on each of them.

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sysko sysko August 8, 2010 August 8, 2010 at 10:46:47 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Yep, you're right, I will do it :)

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sysko sysko August 8, 2010 August 8, 2010 at 10:54:54 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

done

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minshirui minshirui August 8, 2010 August 8, 2010 at 11:04:24 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Thank you, I'm much obliged.

sysko sysko August 7, 2010 August 7, 2010 at 9:10:44 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

@Blay_paul, now the comment page can be filtered by language of the commented sentence
for example only comments on japanese sentence http://tatoeba.org/fre/sentence_comments/index/jpn

blay_paul blay_paul August 6, 2010 August 6, 2010 at 3:44:31 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Minor delete glitch?

If you do an annotations search on 三日月 you can find the index data of a record - but I think that record does not exist any more. It isn't possible to delete or change that index data.

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TRANG TRANG August 7, 2010 August 7, 2010 at 12:55:05 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Ah right... Already known glitch, detected back in June. But I had forgotten about it.

It's still in low priority but I'll try to take care of this before the end of the month.

blay_paul blay_paul August 5, 2010 August 5, 2010 at 10:41:24 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

It's the Thursday WWWJDIC examples update report.

17 records deleted.
16 new records.

sacredceltic sacredceltic August 5, 2010 August 5, 2010 at 12:40:18 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Isn't it silly to multiply the same sentences like "Tom did this..." and "Mary did this..." and "Miko did this..." resulting in dozens of the same sentences with just different names?
Coudn't we agree that all girls are named "Angela" and boys "Miko"?
Suddenly, the number of sentences would probably decline sharply...

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xtofu80 xtofu80 August 5, 2010 August 5, 2010 at 1:37:52 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I agree, though sometimes it is interesting in highly inflected languages to see how the Gender of the subject may change the other words in the sentence. But if you think they are of no use, simply do not add such sentences, and do not translate all of those variants. That's how I do it.

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sacredceltic sacredceltic August 5, 2010 August 5, 2010 at 3:09:20 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Well, the problem is I don't take every note of what I translate on the fly, and I just realised from time to time that it was the same thing again and again...and these sentences are not linked to each other, alas...

sacredceltic sacredceltic August 5, 2010 August 5, 2010 at 4:17:03 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

and the problem is the same with different times, distances, counts, numbers, etc...
I think it needs conventions...

tansaku tansaku August 5, 2010 August 5, 2010 at 12:38:10 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I'm interested in making an android dictionary app that uses tatoeba. I've seen a couple of apps (kotoba, tatoeba-desktop) that seem to use an API, but I can't find any API documentation. Am I missing something obvious? :-)

Many thanks in advance

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TRANG TRANG August 5, 2010 August 5, 2010 at 8:35:07 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

It's really cool you're interested in making an Android app! :)

And no, you're not missing anything obvious. We actually started coding an API last year, but this sub-project was temporarily dropped because no one could carry it on, and it wasn't the most urgent thing to take care of.

Any app that currently uses our data actually uses our downloads files.
http://tatoeba.org/eng/download...mple_sentences

Of course we still plan to provide an API, I just don't know when yet... But there has been other people than you asking for it, so it's getting higher and higher priority in our todo list.

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tansaku tansaku August 5, 2010 August 5, 2010 at 11:23:34 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Cool - many thanks - I grabbed the download files. One question, does the Japanese index just replicate a portion of the links file?

Also, let me know if you need help coding the API. I teach courses on developing RESTful webservices:

http://linklens.blogspot.com/20...ng-at-hpu.html

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TRANG TRANG August 6, 2010 August 6, 2010 at 10:57:03 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

> does the Japanese index just replicate a portion of the links file?

Yes.

> Also, let me know if you need help coding the API.

Thank you :) We'll contact you back when we have clearer plans for the API. Any advice will be welcome. Right now we need time and resources more than anything...

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tansaku tansaku August 7, 2010 August 7, 2010 at 12:01:27 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Thanks guys. I've started towards an Android app: http://linklens.blogspot.com/20...n-android.html

Hope to have something to show you soon. Regarding the API 3Scale has this free basic plan: http://www.3scale.net/products-...scale-connect/ What would be interesting would be some kind on in-app purchase framework in Android and iPhone apps that let the user of the end app pay a few cents for their usage ...

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TRANG TRANG August 7, 2010 August 7, 2010 at 1:29:11 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Nice! :D

And yes, having people pay for API usage to cover the expenses is something we've already thought of. But who pays and how do they pay is not an easy question...

3Scale looks interesting, thanks for the link :)

blay_paul blay_paul August 6, 2010 August 6, 2010 at 10:49:10 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

> One question, does the Japanese index just replicate a
> portion of the links file?

It includes the so-called 'B line'. A set of index data used to link entries in the dictionary WWWJDIC to the example sentences.

sacredceltic sacredceltic August 4, 2010 August 4, 2010 at 10:33:13 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Je voudrais savoir si le fait de ne pas indiquer la langue à l'ajout de phrases ralentit le processus d'insertion et sollicite davantage le serveur ou bien si le contrôle est fait de toutes manières.

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xtofu80 xtofu80 August 4, 2010 August 4, 2010 at 10:43:52 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I think discussions on the wall should be held in English. Only discussions in the comment section of a particular language might be held in that very language, since a reader who cannot read the comment might also not be interested in the sentence anyway.

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sysko sysko August 4, 2010 August 4, 2010 at 10:47:49 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I think we should restrict people on the language used, because I know some contributors which are not confident with english, or at least not confident with the vocabulary of the question/suggestion they want to do.
So I think we should let the decision of the language to the one who ask the question, if he wants/can do it in english. It would be a pitty to make someone no ask a question only because he can't express itself in English.

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sysko sysko August 4, 2010 August 4, 2010 at 10:49:33 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

*I think we should NOT restrict

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CK CK August 5, 2010, edited October 26, 2019 August 5, 2010 at 5:46:58 AM UTC, edited October 26, 2019 at 4:06:07 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

[not needed anymore- removed by CK]

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sacredceltic sacredceltic August 5, 2010 August 5, 2010 at 8:24:09 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Je suis totalement en désaccord avec ce diktat qui est même tout à fait choquant. En quoi, en effet, l'anglais serait-il davantage "poli" que l'allemand, l'italien, l'espagnol, le français, ...ou toute autre langue ?
La politesse, ça marche dans les 2 sens, donc les anglophones peuvent également faire l'effort de parler d'autres langues ou de se les faire traduire, tout copmme les autres le font. Pourquoi les anglophones feraient-ils cette économie, tandis que les autres en encaisseraient le coût ?
Etes-vous disposés à payer le temps que les autres passent à vous traduire ? Non, bien sûr, donc vous devez partager ce coût.
Ensuite, les capacités des non-natifs anglophones étant constamment remises en cause par les natifs, la communication exclusivement en anglais est inégale, puisque certains s'arrogent le droit de juger le vocabulaire des autres tout en imposant leur propre langue. Les dés sont donc pipés.
Enfin, il arrive dans cette communauté ce qui arrive dans toutes les autres communautés internationales où l'anglais est la seule langue de travail: Il n'y a plus que les anglophones qui aient leur mot à dire.
Les études montrent, en effet, que les organisations internationales ou plusieurs langues sont admises comme langues de travail sont beaucoup plus inclusives et donc plus riches des contributions de davantage de personnes. A l'Organisation Mondiale de la Santé, par exemple, il a été démontré que lorsque les débats étaient en anglais, certaines nationalités n'intervenaient jamais, si bien que leurs travaux ne sont jamais pris en compte. Les organisations exclusivement anglophones sont, au mieux, des organisations borgnes !

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arcticmonkey arcticmonkey August 5, 2010 August 5, 2010 at 8:29:07 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Paranoia much?

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sacredceltic sacredceltic August 5, 2010 August 5, 2010 at 8:42:30 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Wenn Paranoia ist denken dass schreiben auf Deutsch oder Französich nicht unhöflich ist, dann bin ich paranoid, Ja!

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arcticmonkey arcticmonkey August 5, 2010 August 5, 2010 at 9:34:01 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

That's not what I was hinting at. I actually agree that everyone should be allowed to use the language of their choice. However, your fear of an Anglo-Saxon world conspiracy and google is beyond me.

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sacredceltic sacredceltic August 5, 2010 August 5, 2010 at 10:04:31 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Je ne sais pas ou vous avez vu que j'avais peur d'une "conspiration anglo-saxonne". Vous avez des références à citer ?
J'utilise par ailleurs Google tous les jours, j'en possède même des actions et je suis un expert en référencement Google. J'utilise pratiquement TOUS les produits Google depuis leur lancement. Je connais donc Google de manière LA PLUS INTIME POSSIBLE.
Je suis donc parfaitement qualifié pour juger que Google n'est TOUT SIMPLEMENT PAS une référence linguistique. Cette seule suggestion fait hurler de rire tous les linguistes professionnels.

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arcticmonkey arcticmonkey August 5, 2010 August 5, 2010 at 10:38:29 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

"Il n'y a plus que les anglophones qui aient leur mot à dire"

I happen to study English linguistics and I know for a fact that professional linguists use google all the time. There are even dedicated tools that allow you to parse google search results for the purpose of corpus analysis. This is one of those tools: http://www.webcorp.org.uk/

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sacredceltic sacredceltic August 5, 2010 August 5, 2010 at 10:56:37 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Well, again, maybe most linguists do use Google as a reference for English (although I really doubt that, because I happen to know a few who would just frown at the sheer idea...), but I can assure you this is absolutely not the case for many other languages, probably the vast majority of them.
And by the way, who talked about "parsing Google" ? The argumentation that was thrown at my face here was systematically grounded on raw Google results...

sacredceltic sacredceltic August 5, 2010 August 5, 2010 at 11:00:41 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

"Il n'y a plus que les anglophones qui aient leur mot à dire" n'a rien de particulièrement paranoïaque puisque l'on propose tout simplement de faire taire les autres sur ce mur.
Je ne combats pas l'anglais, que je pratique moi-même, mais je défends simplement le principe de l'équité linguistique.
Chacun doit fournir les mêms efforts de compréhension à l'égard des autres. L'anglais n'est en aucun cas une langue "neutre" et encore moins "universelle". Il n'y a donc aucune raison de lui accorder un statut privilégié.

sysko sysko August 5, 2010 August 5, 2010 at 10:13:28 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Même si je ne suis pas toujours pas d'accord avec Sacredceltic, son précédent message ne parlait absolument pas de conspiration.
Tâchons d'éviter ce genre d'attaques ad hominem, qui ne font qu'envenimer les choses.

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sacredceltic sacredceltic August 5, 2010 August 5, 2010 at 10:17:56 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

attaques "ad hominem" ? Ne serais-tu pas un peu parano, Sysko ?

sysko sysko August 4, 2010 August 4, 2010 at 10:53:08 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

So for those who wants to know, the question was about "does choosing directly the language instead of "autodetect" while adding sentences will slow down the process of sentence adding, and will it slowdown the server"
my answer is that as for the moment we use the Google's API for language detection (even if we plan to use our own system, I'm not fan of depending on google stuff) it will not slowndown the server, but it maybe speed up the time it takes to add a sentence (but I wonder if it's "visible" for a user)

sacredceltic sacredceltic August 4, 2010 August 4, 2010 at 10:58:53 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Ich bin anderer ansicht...

sysko sysko August 4, 2010 August 4, 2010 at 10:43:46 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

pour l'instant la détection de la langue est faite via l'API google (cela pour des raisons historiques, nous attendons une refonte prochaine du site, pour passer sur nos propres algorithmes de détection automatique)
cela ne sollicite donc pas plus le serveur, mais préciser la langue rend l'ajout plus rapide vu qu'il n'y une chose en moins à faire. Après je n'ai jamais pris le temps de comparer les deux, pour voir si le gain de temps coté utilisateur était "observable".
l'option en fait est surtout pour les langues non supportés par l'API de google, ou produisant beaucoup de mauvaise détection (comme le shanghaïen, le latin etc.)

saeb saeb August 4, 2010 August 4, 2010 at 8:44:06 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

using an idiom as a translation:
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentence...11354#comments

what's the official position on this?

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saeb saeb August 4, 2010 August 4, 2010 at 9:35:55 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

one more thing, we need to strictly define when does two sentences 'match', when is a direct link appropriate, when is an indirect link appropriate, and when an indirect link isn't acceptable.

There's way more linguistic nuances than just idioms and we really can't start being picky about every single one of them...

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xtofu80 xtofu80 August 4, 2010 August 4, 2010 at 10:02:45 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I think it would be wise to mark non-idiomatic translations of proverbs by a tag, because often translations of proverbs are rather weird.

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blay_paul blay_paul August 4, 2010 August 4, 2010 at 10:15:19 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

> I think it would be wise to mark non-idiomatic
> translations of proverbs by a tag

I already do. If you check, you'll see there are "translated-proverb" tags out there.

FeuDRenais FeuDRenais August 5, 2010 August 5, 2010 at 8:50:36 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Likewise, I mark idiomatic translations as "Adapted Translation" and non-idiomatic ones as "Literal Translation".

blay_paul blay_paul August 4, 2010 August 4, 2010 at 10:14:31 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

> when an indirect link isn't acceptable.

An indirect link is _always_ acceptable, as long as the two direct links it consists of are both acceptable.

blay_paul blay_paul August 4, 2010 August 4, 2010 at 8:48:31 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I don't know how 'official' my position is, but this is what I think.

Now, obviously, we'd like to have idioms included in the example sentences. We'd also like to have those examples translated. No controversy so far, I hope? ;-)

So, the point is that not every idiom will have an equivalent in every language it is translated to. Therefore it is impossible to always translate an idiom with an idiom.

Thus it must be acceptable, in some circumstances, to translate an idiom by a non-idiom phrase. Personally I see no reason why it should not always be allowed - but I prefer idom - idiom translations if they are available and natural.

blay_paul blay_paul August 4, 2010 August 4, 2010 at 9:32:51 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

'Delete' tagging.

Please use @delete to mark these sentences for the attention of moderators. I think other tags that want action to be taken should also start with '@' (e.g. @Needs Native Check)