Wall (7,107 threads)
Tips
Before asking a question, make sure to read the FAQ.
We aim to maintain a healthy atmosphere for civilized discussions. Please read our rules against bad behavior.
sharptoothed
13 hours ago
rdgscratch
19 hours ago
Vortarulo
yesterday
frpzzd
yesterday
rdgscratch
2 days ago
hecko
2 days ago
CK
2 days ago
rdgscratch
2 days ago
TATAR1
3 days ago
gillux
4 days ago

クレジット or 謝辞 ?
Anyone have an opinion on whether クレジット, 謝辞 (or, indeed, something else entirely) should be used with the following interface elements?
https://translations.launchpad....AC%9D%E8%BE%9E

Hellu!
How can I help to translate the Tatoeba interface into Italian?
There are a few errors and not everything is translated.
thanks!

You need to register here, as this is the service we use to manage the translation of tatoeba
https://translations.launchpad..../+translations
and then from there you can translate the interface/ correct mistakes
feel free to ask if you have questions :)

Very goood, I've started with the translation!
When will be everything updated?
Anyway it's a working in progress project (but I'm really interested to complete it) because I can't find some of the sentences inside the site >.<

cool
it will be updatet soon :p
http://tatoeba.org/fre/wall/show_message/360 when you don't find some sentences, and if you still don't find ask us ;-) you can send to me or Trang a pm

(just trying a thing)

Regarding translations, I noticed that the German ones all seem to du-ts, rather than Sie-ts. Is that just the way the cards fell and best left alone?

Yes in general it's better to leave alone a sentence if by itself it doesn't have any spelling or grammatical mistake. Never mind if it's a correct translation or not.
=> http://blog.tatoeba.org/2010/02...eba.html#rule5
We will soon introduce a way to "unlink" sentences for problems related to incorrect translations.
Anyway, if you would like to see more "Sie", you have the right to another translation. It's not forbidden to have two German translations for one same English sentence :)

Sorry, that may have been a bit too unclear. I'm referring to the Tatoeba interface translation, not the sentences in the database.

Oooh, okay. Haha.
Well my friend Muiriel told me that it is more likely to see the use of "du" on German Web pages. She was the one who translated most of it. And as far as I'm concerned I can't really have an opinion on the matter, I'm nowhere near fluent in German.
But if you (or other German speakers have) an opinion on this (du vs. Sie), feel free to express it. We're not reluctant to change if there's a good reason for it.

Fair enough; I don't read enough German websites to contradict your friend. Of course commercial sites would refer to their customers with Sie, but Wikipedia seems to mainly use du in help and project namespaces (with occasional Sie's). The semi-commerical dict.leo.org, however, also uses Sie but there may well be plenty of other examples of similar sites that use the informal. I'll ask around as well.

I think it's best to use the informal. The formal in German is dying out, especially among the young generation. I'd say it's mostly young people who are using this site, anyway.
Maybe it could be decided on by sentence. Like "Hey, let's go to the movies" would be informal because you're rarely going to say that to someone you don't know, and "I'd like to have a talk with you about my salary" would be formal, because it's in a business situation.

Re Trang's: "Yes in general it's better to leave alone a sentence if by itself it doesn't have any spelling or grammatical mistake. Never mind if it's a correct translation or not."
I think an exception to this is when there is a Japanese-English pair which have different meanings. Although Paul and I have removed or corrected hundreds of these over recent years, there are still quite a lot there. Our approach has been to amend one or both so that they agree in meaning. I think this needs to continue. When there is a 3rd or 4th language sentence linked, and that sentence has been translated from the English, it is more complicated. Then I think it is better to add an extra English sentence which matches the Japanese, then delink the non-matching pair.
I regularly encounter Japanese sentences with spelling mistakes, e.g. 性交 [8-}] when it should have been 性行 (they are pronounced the same). Then there is no alternative to correcting the Japanese.

Oh, I saw the discussion just now^^:
As Swift mentions, Wikipedia uses "du" when appealing to its contributors. Facebook also uses du. I juste decided to follow their example as it seems the most common solution to me and as I also prefer "du". But if anyone doesn't like it, let's discuss it :)!
Trang, did you synchronize my latest launchpad translations? The status is "Translation unchanged since last synchronized", however I see many English sentences in the German version that I think having translated?
Es wäre toll, wenn mir andere Muttersprachler helfen könnten, Tatoeba vollständig und besser zu übersetzen :)!
https://translations.launchpad.net/tatoeba
Das, was ich schon übersetzt habe, könnte sicher in vielen Fällen besser gemacht werden. Und einiges habe ich auch gar nicht übersetzt, da mir bisher keine gute Lösung eingefallen ist.

I think "Sie" sounds much too reserved, communitywise "du" would be the better choice. But I don't visit many German websites either.
@Muiriel: Ich werd mal reinschaun, vielleicht übersetze ich heute noch ein paar Sätze. Ist schließlich noch ein langer Vormittag. ;)

Good, it seems there's a fair consensus on this, then. Thanks for the input.

I didn't update the translations yet. It will be done this Saturday, some time in the afternoon. If you can translate more in the meantime, go ahead :P

I can't edit translation? I make myself owner of a sentence, edit the false English translation to make it better, but it reverts to the previous translation. Am I missing a step here?

No it's actually a bug. We're aware of this and it will be fixed this weekend (or perhaps sooner). We'll let you know. Sorry for the inconvenience =/
In the meantime, the best way to proceed is, first to click on the sentence in order to view it in the "Browse" page (the page where there are also the comments and the logs displayed). Then adopt the sentence. Then refresh the page. Then edit the sentence.
I know it's quite annoying, but it's the only (temporary) solution.

Merci TRANG, for all your hard work on the site.

The bug is corrected :)
And you can also thank sysko, he did a lot of work as well.

Confirmations in LaunchPad?
OK, quick question here. I've made a lot of 'awaiting confirmation' translation suggestions in LaunchPad but it doesn't seem like they will be confirmed (or corrected) any time soon. I guess there aren't many native Japanese speakers with a lot of free time hanging around here. Do you think it would be best to 'confirm' them, even though I can't guarantee good Japanese, in order to get the interface translation finished quicker?
It would, of course, still be possible to correct translations later anyway.

I think as you've said, we haven't so much Japanase native, in a first time "confirm" them is the best solution, with an interface even in "not perfect" Japanese, we're more likely to attract more Japanese, and I think they will report us if they see any mistakes

Thanks for taking on the task of translating into Japanese by the way ^^
And yes, I agree that it's better to "confirm". We're not going to be very perfectionist on the interface translations, even if it may not look very "serious" from a language website NOT to have correct translations...
But well, for the reason sysko mentioned, it's better than nothing.

A proposal for the Japanese romanisation:
I think both romaji and kana readings should be shown on the site. While there's some agreement that serious students of the language should be reading kana, having the romaji makes the site more accessible for silly things like learning to say "I love you" in twenty languages.
As for how to generate it, I'd suggest using the B lines where possible. If there's no B line, or if the B line does not match the text (for instance because of names in the sentence), generate the reading with MeCab, which looks pretty solid.
This may require names and other unindexed items to be added to a B line if the romanisation needs to be corrected. Just the reading will do.
Does this sound reasonable?
I'm motivated to work on this if necessary, but it will probably be a little while before I have the time. First up would be to create the B line to reading converter, and then use it to test MeCab's accuracy on our data.
There are entries like '|1' in front of most parentheses that aren't described at http://www.edrdg.org/wiki/index.php/Tanaka_Corpus. I'm guessing they're indices for the reading?

Much as I love those indices in the B-lines (I invented them years ago), I think it might be better to go straight to MeCab. There are some tricks you would need to apply, e.g. where MeCab says a particle is "助詞,格助詞" you would leave it with spaces around it, and where it is "助詞,接続助詞" you would attach it to the preceding word.
Those "|1" are an artifact of the days when Paul Blay was maintaining the indices in MSAccess and needed a way of disambiguating some words. They are not carried through to the B lines in WWWJDIC (I didn't know what they were until Trang expained them to me.)
If you are using MeCab, use the IPADIC version.
The B-lines would be necessary if you you were to create links to WWWJDIC, as MeCab breaks up expressions/compound nouns/etc.

one of us has beginning to look into changing kakasi, but we have never used MeCab and so, so maybe if you want, I can give you his mail in order to see how to use/configure mecab ?

Sure. I have only used it on as a command-line too (and in shell scripts), but I see it has bindings for python, perl, ruby and java. I just installed it with apt-get (Debian). I use the ipadic (mecab-ipadic) ratjer than the default juman dictionary.
You need to make sure you get the utf-8 configuration. Mine is euc-jp.
It's simple to use: "echo 日本語の分節 | mecab".
Feel free to ask.

the output seems to contain only katakana, is there a way to have hirigana ?

Only by doing your own conversion - those morphological analysis systems don't really care whether it's one or the other.
In EUC-JP and in raw Unicode the conversion is simple, e.g. あ is 3041 and ア is 30A1 and so on. It's a little more messy in UTF8 but quite doable with a simple algorithm. Of course where it is katakana in the original text, you would leave it that way.

ok that's what we've done waiting your answer, so we will keep it :)
so it's highly probable that it will be included in next release

Traditional and Simplified Chinese
I saw the comment about converting hanzi on-the-fly. Be very cautious about that, as there are many cases where it simply doesn't work. Proper Traditional<->Simplified conversion needs to work at the lexeme level and in some cases needs some context for disambiguation.
Jack Halpern wrote a very good paper about this about 10 years ago:
http://www.cjk.org/cjk/c2c/c2cbasis.htm
PS: how do I make a comment on another posting?

OK, I worked out how to do a follow-on. I'd clicked "reply" but it hadn't worked. Now it does.

the traditional to simplified chinese is not made at "character by character" level, but try to decompose the sentence (you can see how the sentence has been segmented by looking to pinyin)
As I've said I'm in conctact with the guy who develop it, so don't hesitate to report any bad segmentations, I will report to him

WWWJDIC index line.
I suggest adding links from words in the Japanese sentence to WWWJDIC entries using the information in the index line. That would be a useful 'first step' towards adding furigana to the sentence.
The basic set-up is relatively straight forward, but there is one complication - namely 'deliberately non-indexed text'. Punctuation, English words, place names and other proper nouns are not generally included in EDICT and so do not have entries in the Index line. Jim Breen should have a 'no index' field that includes all non-indexed text (although it may not be up to date). In order to parse a sentence properly you need both the index line and the non-indexed text.
Adding furigana to place names etc. should probably be left for later.

Word-by-word links based on the Japanese index words would be good, and not too hard to implement, I think.
At present I am pulling the sentences and indices into WWWJDIC once a week, and I put them through a utility which matches the text and the index contents, and reports if there is a mismatch (which usually means that someone has changed a sentence.) To get around the problem of "deliberately non-indexed text" I have a file of
words which I ignore if they are not in the index. You can see this list of words at http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~...amplestopwords (in EUC-JP). Most are names. Some look a bit odd as they are two or more names which had been separated by punctuation (which I ignore.)

Translation suggestions
There are now 100 translation suggestions waiting to be checked at
https://translations.launchpad..../ja/+translate
I would urge people who understand Japanese to check them and either confirm or correct them.

Source Code?
In order to better determine possible translations for
https://translations.launchpad..../ja/+translate
it would help if I could view the source code.
Also, some translation items require code reworking as well. e.g. "linked to" should probably be "linked to » %s" (where %s is the sentence number) so that the Japanese could be something like "%s とつながる".

Normally the path of the file should be enough of a hint for you to figure out on which page of the website the string can be found.
If the path is something like /views/<something>/file.ctp file, then you would usually (not always) need to go to http://tatoeba.org/<something>/file
If the path is /controllers/<something>_controller.php, then the string is a bit harder to find, but it can be found somewhere in the pages that start with http://tatoeba.org/<something>/
I don't know how comfortable you are looking at source code, but it could be simpler if you just translated what you can first. We have a "test" version of Tatoeba where we test things before we update the "real" version of Tatoeba. As soon as you have your translations done (even partially), we can update the "test" version and you can then browse around in there to check if the translations fit or not. I'll give you the link in a private message.
Other than that, the source code can be found here:
http://subversion.assembla.com/...ba2/trunk/app/
Just note that the strings in Launchpad are not always exactly synchronized with the code source.

> I don't know how comfortable you are looking at source code
Reasonably. I'm familiar with Visual Basic, Javascript and Visual Basic - PhP is like the bastard offspring of all of those.
Without looking at the code it's very difficult to correctly translate things like
<b>Share</b> your knowledge.
because they are handled as _two strings_ and the order needs to be reversed in Japanese.
<b>知識</b>を共有する

Ah yes, forgot to mention, like you noted, there are some strings that we forgot to make more "compliant" for internationalization.
You can send me an email to list those you find. I'll fix it in the code and update the strings in Launchpad.