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CK CK June 2, 2010, edited October 25, 2019 June 2, 2010 at 11:31:11 AM UTC, edited October 25, 2019 at 8:10:29 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

[not needed anymore- removed by CK]

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TRANG TRANG June 2, 2010 June 2, 2010 at 2:16:43 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Thanks for reporting. Actually it just died... But it's back now.

JimBreen JimBreen June 2, 2010 June 2, 2010 at 3:26:09 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

The WWWJDIC interface to Tatoeba now has links to both the Japanese & English sentences (previously it was just to the English half of a pair.)

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blay_paul blay_paul June 2, 2010 June 2, 2010 at 9:51:49 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Thanks - I'm sure that will come in handy for me.

brauliobezerra brauliobezerra June 1, 2010 June 1, 2010 at 5:13:01 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I have a game for you: fill the blanks!

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6060033...raduzidas.html

Warning: BIIIG HTML table.
Warning2: it's not updated as you add the sentences...

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TRANG TRANG June 1, 2010 June 1, 2010 at 6:34:25 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Awesome!!! :D Thanks for making this page!

Can I request something? =]

I'd love to also have the sentences themselves, not just the id's. This way you can see right away what are the most translated sentences in Tatoeba. You can also see which sentences you may feel like translating first.

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brauliobezerra brauliobezerra June 2, 2010 June 2, 2010 at 3:17:38 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Originally I put the sentences, but some took too much space. But I could cut them at some point to solve this problem.

Can I request something also?
Is there any possibility to host this script (and possibly others) on Tatoeba's server? This way they could be more up to date and thus useful. I can change them to PHP if needed (I'm using Ruby).

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TRANG TRANG June 2, 2010 June 2, 2010 at 8:23:32 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Yes, there is always a possibility :)

But I can't tell how soon your scripts can be integrated... As far as I'm concerned, I know I will not have time until at least another two weeks =/

Demetrius Demetrius June 1, 2010 June 1, 2010 at 6:54:08 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

There is no sentence with id 242883.

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sysko sysko June 1, 2010 June 1, 2010 at 7:07:19 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

maybe because the sentence has been merged between the last export (which has used our braulio) and now :)

brauliobezerra brauliobezerra June 1, 2010 June 1, 2010 at 7:12:36 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Since this sentence has some historic, I guess it was deleted (for being a duplicate, for example) since I downloaded the list last Saturday.

Demetrius Demetrius June 1, 2010 June 1, 2010 at 7:08:03 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Something is wrong here.
E.g. 51700 already has a Belarusian translation.

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sysko sysko June 1, 2010 June 1, 2010 at 7:09:22 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

same reason I think (change between the export and now)

blay_paul blay_paul June 1, 2010 June 1, 2010 at 7:34:42 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

wwwjdic format export.

Hi Trang, and Sysko, would it be possible to do a list export on the fly with the same fields as WWWJDIC.CSV ?

I've been annoying Jim with partially indexed records because it's more convenient for me to do them after the weekly download update. If I could export the 'INDEXING UNDERWAY' records a couple of days _before_ the weekly update they'd be done by the time Jim starts doing his stuff.

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TRANG TRANG June 1, 2010 June 1, 2010 at 9:48:14 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Yes, it's possible. I will take the time in my very busy schedule for this :P

By the way, if one week is to short, you could perhaps tell Jim to only download and process the file once every other week, or once a month?

Just because there's a weekly export doesn't mean you, Jim and whoever else, have to work on this basis. Having for instance two weeks would allow you to use the "halfway" export to check if there's any kind of error, and correct them before the "final" export.

And it should give you less pressure on getting your things done :)

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JimBreen JimBreen June 1, 2010 June 1, 2010 at 9:56:03 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I could certainly download and install in WWWJDIC less frequently (after all, I went a year without an update). Each week I spend quite a lot of time fixing things that I find messed up; usually changes in the Japanese without matching changes in the indices.
I wouldn't want it to build up too long as this checking process could become quite large.

Maybe the best thing would be for Paul to tell me before a Saturday if he has unfinished indices, and I will skip that week's download.

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blay_paul blay_paul June 1, 2010 June 1, 2010 at 10:08:30 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Every other week is one possible approach. However I wouldn't really want to go more than a week between updates as too much builds up to check / fix.

Are the exports an automated process? Would it be annoying / awkward to do it twice a week?

I think the main problem is that me, and Jim, both end up fixing much of the same things at the same time (duplicating effort). If you had one export on a Thursday and one on a Saturday I would be able to get my checks done _before_ Jim gets it.

Or maybe you could do it once every 5 days and I could take
5th, 15th, and 25th
while Jim updates on
10th, 20th and 30th

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TRANG TRANG June 1, 2010 June 1, 2010 at 6:59:02 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

It's automated. I can set it up for twice a week. Let's say Thursday 9AM?

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blay_paul blay_paul June 1, 2010 June 1, 2010 at 7:19:59 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

That sounds good to me. I'll download on Thursdays and Jim can download on Saturdays.

I'll only need wwwjdic.csv on Thursday, by the way.

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JimBreen JimBreen June 2, 2010 June 2, 2010 at 3:23:16 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

It's Sunday for me (Saturday in backward countries like the UK and France...)

TRANG TRANG June 2, 2010 June 2, 2010 at 8:38:38 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Okay, I set it up so that the wwwjdic.csv file gets updated also on Thursdays, at 9AM (France time).

JimBreen JimBreen June 1, 2010 June 1, 2010 at 3:17:59 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Sentence 155946 has two sets of indices, which point to different English sentences. Odd.

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JimBreen JimBreen June 1, 2010 June 1, 2010 at 4:17:38 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

164243 is the same. Is this because duplicates are being deleted?

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blay_paul blay_paul June 1, 2010 June 1, 2010 at 6:49:03 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Yes, if they're ones I set up to be deleted I try to delete one of them in advance, but one or two slip out.

CK CK May 30, 2010, edited October 25, 2019 May 30, 2010 at 3:35:41 AM UTC, edited October 25, 2019 at 8:10:43 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

[not needed anymore- removed by CK]

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blay_paul blay_paul May 30, 2010 May 30, 2010 at 5:00:12 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

1324 is bad. I missed that one.

It probably should be one of

That's /my/ line!
That's MY line!

(as there is a valid need of represented emphasis in that sentence).

I don't think 73507 and 73508 are likely to cause any trouble, but they are in violation of the 'no annotations guideline' and aren't even in the (grandfathered in) wwwjdic meta information format.

CK CK May 30, 2010, edited October 25, 2019 May 30, 2010 at 4:15:04 AM UTC, edited October 25, 2019 at 8:10:36 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

[not needed anymore- removed by CK]

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blay_paul blay_paul May 30, 2010 May 30, 2010 at 4:54:18 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

1) Separate handling for Meta information in Tatoeba sentences is already in the todo list.

2) [M] and [F] tags were removed from the English sentences and applied to the Japanese in the last update done to the Tanaka Corpus before control was turned over to Tatoeba. Unfortunately recent events suggest the last update didn't make it to Tatoeba. This hasn't been fixed because of 1)

3) When the meta information system is redone it is planned to re-evaluate the basis of the [M] and [F] tags. 僕 alone will almost certainly not be worth an [M] tag (due to developments in modern Japanese). Although I would disagree that beginners of Japanese necessarily know about 'boku' and 'kimi' being used in masculine speech.

blay_paul blay_paul May 29, 2010 May 29, 2010 at 9:02:51 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Spurious line feeds not removed from Index data input.

See the Index data for sentence 101622.

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blay_paul blay_paul May 29, 2010 May 29, 2010 at 9:03:54 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Also, could records with a 'meaning' field of -1 be excluded from the wwwjdic.csv file?

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TRANG TRANG May 29, 2010 May 29, 2010 at 11:29:53 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Yes.

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JimBreen JimBreen June 1, 2010 June 1, 2010 at 1:44:01 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Yes, there were a heap of them in the last wwwjdic.csv. There were also two blank lines. The first time that has happened. (Spurious line feeds?)

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JimBreen JimBreen June 1, 2010 June 1, 2010 at 1:52:02 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Also 315382 came through with "\N" as the Japanese and English. (Just an index...)

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JimBreen JimBreen June 1, 2010 June 1, 2010 at 3:00:27 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Actually, there were about 20 with \N for the English, Japanese or both.

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blay_paul blay_paul June 1, 2010 June 1, 2010 at 6:51:47 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I think they related to manual deletions or something. I think they were fixed in Tatoeba shortly after the index data download was updated.

TRANG TRANG May 29, 2010 May 29, 2010 at 11:29:42 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Indeed... I'll trim the input before it gets saved.

Other than that there was another index with an extra new line. I corrected both.

blay_paul blay_paul May 30, 2010 May 30, 2010 at 12:21:42 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Great - thanks for both of those. They'll make my life easier, once a week. ;-)

blay_paul blay_paul May 29, 2010 May 29, 2010 at 11:06:51 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Could we have a duplicate removal script run soon to, please?

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TRANG TRANG May 29, 2010 May 29, 2010 at 11:47:33 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Okay, it's done.

By the way, is there any reason why you add these "For duplicate removal script" comments?

When the sentences are merged, all the comments of the deleted sentence are moved to the remaining sentence...

If you are posting these comments to keep track, it is best to also indicate the id's of the sentences that have to be merged, not just that it has to be deleted ^^

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blay_paul blay_paul May 30, 2010 May 30, 2010 at 12:21:04 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

> By the way, is there any reason why you add these
> "For duplicate removal script" comments?

Only so that Jim (and other users) can see what I have changed on the basis that it is a 'near duplicate' before the merge happens. Basically it's so people have a chance to complain.

I delete the comments post merge when I come across them (which is quite often, for technical reasons).

saeb saeb May 29, 2010 May 29, 2010 at 5:22:10 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I thought you guys checked your facebook group (ok I'll shutup :P). well, 2 issues I wanna raise (I know...others already brought it up...he he plaigiarism):
http://bit.ly/cO4t8E
http://bit.ly/cg3rXJ

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sysko sysko May 29, 2010 May 29, 2010 at 5:35:02 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I proposed a long time ago to implement the possibility in sentence comments to write something like @saeb, and it will warn you (trough a private message, or a dedicated section) this way asking for someone helps on a sentence will be easier / or to involve someone when chatting about "how to correct this sentence" ? (by the way nice picts :p)

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Demetrius Demetrius May 31, 2010 May 31, 2010 at 2:31:23 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

BTW personal messages don't attract much attention. Is it possible to change design somehow when you have unread ones?

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JimBreen JimBreen June 1, 2010 June 1, 2010 at 1:27:28 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I agree. An email alert that there are messages would be good. And
of course one for "@JimBreen" in a comment too.

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sysko sysko June 1, 2010 June 1, 2010 at 1:44:41 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

it's planned for this release (I will try to do both), for other users who fear "tatoeba spam" you have an option in your profile do desactivate email (though we need to make it more precise to be able to desactivate email notification for each kind, PM, comments, etc.)

this way, as Pharamp would like this (the others tell us what you think) she would like to warned when a translation is added to one of the sentences she likes, so maybe when precise filtering will be possible, have the possible to activate email sending when someone translate a favorite sentences ? (that will give a reason for the existence of favorites ^^)

saeb saeb May 29, 2010 May 29, 2010 at 10:04:08 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Tribute to sysko:
http://bit.ly/aJ13uT

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sysko sysko May 29, 2010 May 29, 2010 at 10:11:40 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

yeah

saeb saeb May 29, 2010 May 29, 2010 at 6:06:23 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

glad to know you have plans :)