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Sentence #2602592

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OrangeTart OrangeTart July 19, 2013 July 19, 2013 at 3:03:53 PM UTC link Permalink

"メアリーは美しい茶色の目をしている。"
Somewhat unusual use of "している"。

In Japanese, the tense of a sentence is often not as important by itself as in English and this sentence seems to be a very good demonstration of that.

Strictly speaking, "している" should denote the temporary status as English present continuous does: is being, is going, etc. Hence, the usage of "している" found in sentences like "いい目をしている。", "散歩をしている", "真っ青な顔をしている。" are the primary and correct usage.

To the most native Japanese, however, the Japanese grammar often means very little as it fundamentally is a foreign concept.

"いい目をしている。" explains a thing about eyes.
"メアリーは美しい茶色の目をしている。" explains about eyes.

Also, after all, the observer only knows that she has a beautiful brown eyes now, once dead or if she became ill, she would not have them any longer.
Besides, people hardly ever describes about someone's eyes except in novels and in such books, they tend to be explained in present continuous form for providing more vivid imagery.

Furthermore, Japan was and probably still is a Buddhist country, so there is her reincarnation to consider: I'm being ridiculous as no one never ever considers this but to be precise the background culture should not be ignored. In Buddhist view, everything is only temporary.

Therefore, "メアリーは美しい茶色の目をしている。" is acceptable except for the fussy like myself.

Personally I would only use more descriptive sentence like "メアリーは美しい茶色の目の女だ。", as learning English maddened me and now I am a wicked unforgiving grammarian in the urban dictionary sense.

tommy_san tommy_san July 19, 2013 July 19, 2013 at 4:16:21 PM UTC link Permalink

> メアリーは美しい茶色の目をしている。

この文は言い訳なしに自然で正しい日本語でしょう。


> Strictly speaking, "している" should denote the temporary status as English present continuous does: is being, is going, etc.

http://tatoeba.org/jpn/sentences/show/84352
父は毎日日記をつけている。
My father writes in his diary every day.

http://tatoeba.org/jpn/sentences/show/2378457
トムは3年前からフランス語を勉強している。
Tom has been studying French for three years.

これらも「厳密に言って」正しい日本語だと思いますが?

OrangeTart OrangeTart July 21, 2013 July 21, 2013 at 10:04:53 AM UTC link Permalink

突っ込みどころは、こっちですよ:
Maybe you can't say ”メアリーは長く美しい髪をしている”.


>>"この文は言い訳なしに自然で正しい日本語でしょう。
> Strictly speaking, "している" should denote the temporary status as English present continuous does: is being, is going, etc."
正しい間違ってるじゃなく、テンスについて書いたんですが・・・。

他のコメントについては、風邪でキツイんで、後日コメント返させて頂きます。

OrangeTart OrangeTart July 21, 2013 July 21, 2013 at 12:37:19 PM UTC link Permalink

A day or two before, I wrote the sentence"メアリーの髪は長く美しい。" could be wrong.

But thinking over it for a night, I realized I was mistaken; and also found the cause of the mistake itself quite interesting.

What I'm going to describe here concerns a very subtle aspect of the Japanese language and it is something you can live without paying attention to; But some of you might find it interesting: Understanding how a native speaker make a mistake and how natives can have different interpretations of a single sentence.

Below is the original post I made.
=================
p.s
"メアリーの髪は長く美しい。"
http://tatoeba.org/jpn/sentences/show/2602738

Maybe you can't say ”メアリーは長く美しい髪をしている”.
It, at least grammatically, makes sense though; Also, some people would use this sort of sentence but uncommon.
The basis of my judgement here is barely personal experience: personally I have never seen a sentence like the above.

"髪をしている" is more often used for hairdo: Long beautiful hair is not considered as a result of a hair artist working hard in general.

e.g
ピンクの髪をしている
日本髪をしている

And if you ask further and say why can't I say it?
My answer is this: Japanese is a language based on common practice rather than grammar: People generally used "髪をしている" for describing hair style and one day found out that using it for anything else feels confusing and, well, odd.

I could be wrong here, but I thought it might benefit myself and others to leave a note.
=============


First of all, the meaning of する ending particle when used intransitively:
From 新明解国語辞典
1)”外部の刺激やある状態が、目、耳、皮膚などの感覚に受け止められる”
Used to describes visual, sound, sensory input.
e.g
稲光がしてる
I see lightening
音がする
I hear some sound
寒気がする
I feel cold
ドキドキする
My heart is racing
2)ある状態をとる。
Used to describe a state.
e.g
五百円する
is 500Yen
ガッチリとしている
is masculine
垢抜けしている
is cool looking

A perceptive reader, not sure if there is any reader even but never mind that, should realize the sense one and the sense two are related and the difference is not clear cut. The degree of difference between the two senses would also vary from one person to another: For a child, "what is" and "what he feels" and what he think it is" may not easily be told apart; As a child may call a fluffy looking object fluffy but an adult may withhold that word till he actually touches it; and a nerd like myself asks for the definition of fluffiness and, after a lot, reaches the conclusion idk.

I've been using the word almost exclusively for the sense one and never for the sense two in my life, except in my childhood of course, but I must be a special case.

As to if you can say "メアリーは長い美しい髪をしている。”, I'm now positive that people would consider the sentence fine.

The ambiguity in whether the sentence describes an on going experience or the sentence is a description, however, has a little to do with the source of my mistake.

Why I made the mistake?:
1)because people around me and I almost never mention anything about someone's hair.
2)because the sentence, to me, had a strong connotation of touching and feeling hair and I in general want to avoid giving an impression like that at all costs!!

The part I found curious is this: women and children likely never have the reasons above to make the same mistake.
I guess we all speak different languages after all.

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License: CC BY 2.0 FR

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This sentence was initially added as a translation of sentence #2045814Mary has beautiful brown eyes..

メアリーは美しい茶色の目をしている。

added by OrangeTart, July 19, 2013

linked by OrangeTart, July 19, 2013

linked by Silja, October 25, 2014

linked by Aiji, October 6, 2017