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Sentence #6980395

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Comments

ToinhoAlam ToinhoAlam August 16, 2018 August 16, 2018 at 10:43:43 PM UTC link Permalink

For the pakala part I would create a new sentence:
mi seli mute e pan. (tan ni la) mi pakala e ona.

foods usually don't have proper names, unless:
1. You're petting it.
2. It's a nationality (pan Italija = pizza, spaghetti...).
3. It's named after a person, perhaps: pan Jako = Jakob's pasta.

Tepan Tepan October 24, 2020 October 24, 2020 at 10:58:55 AM UTC link Permalink

mi seli mute e pan. = I cooked the pasta a lot.
-> mi seli pi mute ike e pan. = I cooked the pasta too much. [?]

ToinhoAlam ToinhoAlam October 25, 2020 October 25, 2020 at 6:03:07 AM UTC link Permalink

nimi "ike" li lon toki ni tan seme? nimi "pakala" li tan seme?
pan li seli mute la pan li pakala li ike!
ken la mi wile ala toki e nimi ni tan toki mama mi.
anu mi wile toki pona kepeken nimi lili. tenpo mute la toki lili li toki pona!

I really don't see the need to add ike to this sentence, or to explicitly say the pasta got ruined by it (with pakala for example). Maybe that's native language bias or I just like making toki pona sentences the smallest possible (which most always means simpler).

Tepan Tepan October 25, 2020 October 25, 2020 at 9:54:01 AM UTC link Permalink

@ToinhoAlam
I can only speak for the "ike"-proposal of mine:

In Toki Pona sentences, there is a difference between "many" and "too many", and also "enough":

mute = many/much
mute ike = too many/much
mute pona = enough

You have that in your sentences, too:
sina pona pi mute ike tawa jan Ton.
jan Ton li pali pi mute pona ala.

"overcooked" implies, that there was too much cooking, not just "much cooking", so I proposed "pi mute ike".

If you strive for shortness, maybe "seli ike" works for you? (That sounds like something I would do from time to time, like "suli pi mute ike" = "suli ike".)

[?]

ToinhoAlam ToinhoAlam October 25, 2020 October 25, 2020 at 7:55:44 PM UTC link Permalink

"seli ike" implies bad cooking but not overcooking. I think a food context doesn't allow other interpretation for this besides "overcooking".

In the sentences you've mentioned "sina pona mute" would never imply it's a bad thing, and for the second sentence, today, I'd totally write "jan Ton li pali lili" or even "jan Ton li pali mute ala".

I apologize if I'm being stubborn but this sentence is correct toki pona. Also, I can't see how if you "seli mute" a food it doesn't get "overcooked" or what does "much cooking" means besides that. "seli mute" is at least a general case for "seli pi mute ike". But if you still thinks this sentence can't be a translation of the English one, I will unlink it and create another more specific one.

Tepan Tepan October 25, 2020 October 25, 2020 at 9:15:18 PM UTC link Permalink

It's OK not to change the sentence if I don't manage to convince you. We just come from different angles and sometimes there is more explanation to do, other times it's more obvious for both. Plus, one never knows, what's there to learn. That's the fun part. :)

I wasn't a too much of a fan of "seli ike" anyways, so I'm fine with letting it go.

I agree that "sina pona mute" isn't a bad thing, but why do you mention that? (I didn't, did I?) Your "sina pona pi mute ike" has "mute ike" for "too" (as I understand it, am I right), and that's how I express "too", too. :)

So, do I understand you correctly, that when something shouldn't be small or big (for example), but we mention its size, it is obvious that it is *too* small or *too* big? So, when Tom is supposed to work, but he works little, then he works *too* little? I mean, it sounds so to me. Like "too" means or implies "less or more than expected".

jan Ton li pali lili = jan Ton li pali pi lili ike = jan Ton li pali pi mute pona ala [?]

This works, when there is enough context, but so would it work in other languages, too, I think. Concerning cooking, "seli mute" is for me between al dente and overcooked. And now I'm removing my question mark from the sentence. :)

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License: CC BY 2.0 FR

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This sentence was initially added as a translation of sentence #3821572I overcooked the pasta..

mi seli mute e pan.

added by ToinhoAlam, July 6, 2018

linked by ToinhoAlam, July 6, 2018