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LicenseCC BY 2.0 FR
This sentence is original and was not derived from translation.
added by CK, May 2, 2011
linked by Vortarulo, February 27, 2012
copyright violation : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question
But it's a traditional example... Wikipedia didn't invent it...
>But it's a traditional example... Wikipedia didn't invent it...
It's amazing how much italian teenagers know of English traditions...For how many decades have you witnessed the building up of this "tradiction", exactly?
I trust CK more than you do, probably. And he's more anglophone than you...
Let's not get into red herrings or unsupported ad hominem arguments, please. Sacredceltic, you're going to have to make a better case if you actually think this is a case of copyright violation.
Please do explain your point of view, but simply that a middle-aged man in Brussels hasn't heard of this is hardly a sufficient to indicate that it was snatched from Wikipedia.
>Let's not get into red herrings or unsupported ad hominem arguments, please.
When a person invokes tradition, it puts into question the age of the person. So it is "ad hominem" per definition...
@Pharamp>I trust CK more than you do, probably. And he's more anglophone than you...
So what is your added-value in this debate, exactly?
As a moderator, I told you it's not a copyright violation. Feel free to add arguments if you think CK (the owner of this sentence, by the way) is wrong.
A person's age only comes into question if humans are unable to gauge anything beyond their lifespan. If you were to bother to read up on this you would see that this is the quintessential example of a loaded question.
As for Pharamp, whether she knew of this sentence before or not, she seems to have been pointing out to you the fact that this is not something which Wikipedia can hold copyright to.
Rather than continuing this meta-discussion, I suggest you support your claim that this is a copyright violation. You have yet failed to do so and turning this on its head by demanding proof for the opposite is just one step to far into climate change denial territory for anyone to indulge you on.
>As a moderator, I told you it's not a copyright violation. Feel free to add arguments if you think CK (the owner of this sentence, by the way) is wrong.
Well, CK is already a moderator and you seem to trust him, so...
I provided the link to Wikipedia which shows that this same sentence is there, predating the one on Tatoeba, and curiously, it is found in the "Loaded question" entry, concept to which CK explicitly referred...
So, the logical conclusion is that CK is not the author of this and he took it from there...
But I guess Tatoeba moderators, along with the right to smear contributors, also take that of stealing intellectual property, although they forbid it to others...
>Uh I stole intellectual property.
But in this case, it is not a proverb...and what you call a "tradition" on your teenage scale is actually fairly recent...
The Wikipedia article you linked to sates: “The traditional example is the question "Have you stopped beating your wife?"” thus invalidating your claim that it's a Wikipedia original.
That CK would use the term “loaded question” implies just as strongly that he knows what he's talking about.
>The Wikipedia article you linked to sates: “The traditional example is the question "Have you stopped beating your wife?"” thus invalidating your claim that it's a Wikipedia original.
The same article tracks the history to Madeleine Albright...I know she's old, but not tradition old or...are you also a boor ?
No, the article mentions Albright's famous retort that she felt the human civilian toll of the UN sanctions against Iraq to have been worth it as one example of this rhetoric device.
To believe that no-one has ever uttered this sort of question before Leslie Stahl's interview with the then US ambassador to the UN is rather incomprehensible. You should rather focus your futile efforts to the specific phrase in question.
The sentence seems to be used in a book of 1938,would be good to see if the sentence was used to give an example of "Loaded question
Will be good to view if it's used also in other books, and if possible one that are liekly to have fall in the public domain.
http://books.google.fr/books?id...=0CCoQ6AEwADg8 this one seems to say that the phrase was first said by president Gomper
http://www.communicationencyclo...rintsample.pdf quote from this pdf at the part
"Deception in Discourse
Dariusz Galasin ́ski
University of Wolverhampton
There are many classifications of acts of deception. Regardless of the actual categories, classifications are based on a number of axes of comparison. Acts of deception can be monologic or dialogic (as in covert evasion where the speaker pretends to answer the question, e.g., A: Do you want a tougher regime in these secure places? B: I want a regime that helps them [inmates] face up to their responsibilities ... ); they can be active or passive (by withholding a message); they can be done via explicit or implicit proposition (implicatures, presuppositions, e.g., the infamous Have you stopped beating your wife?);
That book mentioning Gomper actuallyl says:
“Subsidized newspapers, which are most of the, have taken great pains to dilute upon this question and what they wish to term President Gombers' evasive answer, by likening the question to the famous one: “Have you stopped beating your wife?””
So, by Gompers' time it seems to have been already famous. Gompers, by the way, seems to have used it slightly differently: “If a man should ask me whether I still beat my wife…” so it seems that this had already entered the vernacular well before 1914 when that debate took place.
Detective sysko, we're on a roll!
I don't think that you can copyright something as trivial and common as this.
However, it was probably not the best time to add this sentence.
>However, it was probably not the best time to add this sentence.
Well, it was not the best time for moderators to hint that I beat my wife, for sure...there will be a follow up to this. I call it a cornerstone.