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Iriep Iriep 6 hours ago 2019-11-20 10:33:43 link permalink

Hello folks,

Firstly, I really want to thank all the members of the Tatoeba project. It is very fruitful for minorities languages to help them as you do, and as the Website do also.
Secondly, do you think that it could be added some percentages on Tatoeba website. As an example, to show how many sentences the user have to translate into the language he wants:
1. {percentage} of {English} sentences translated into {French}.
2. {percentage} of {English} sentences with the {word} translated into {French}.
Until now, the Website shows only the number of sentences. I think like this, people on the website will see in an easier way how efficient they are. And I personally think that it would be more pleasant to understand like that: "I have almost done the work, while there is still 5% to translate".

The “Common Voice” website inspired me this third point.
Do you think that it could add a kind of new way to translate. Please let me explain this new way I’m talking about.
Instead of clicking each time on the translate button, what do you think if the user have to click once the button “Translate”.
And then when the user has already sent his translation by clicking on the button “send”.
The website automatically move on to the next sentence to translate. And If the user doesn’t know how to translate one sentence, perhaps it could be added a button called “Skip this sentence”, and then the website move on automatically to the next sentence to translate.

Fourth, do you think that a dark them for Tatoeba could be imaginated?
You will find some usefull links for this idea:

Have a nice day
Regards/A galon

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AlanF_US AlanF_US 10 minutes ago 2019-11-20 16:57:38 link permalink

Pierre, we're glad you find Tatoeba useful. You are a member of the project, too, so thanks for your contributions as well.

It sounds to me like you are interested in a workflow where you (a) are continuously measuring your progress against the number of sentences in a particular set and (b) want to step through each member of the set. In my experience, this doesn't work well unless the set meets all or most of the criteria:

(1) it's small (so you can go through it in a reasonable period of time)
(2) its content is highly relevant to what you want to learn, meaning that it spans what you want it to span, but excludes what you don't want
(3) it's effectively closed (rather than being continually expanded)
(4) its quality is consistently excellent

Most sets of sentences that you will encounter here (for instance, sentences in English that are not translated into French) will not fit all of those criteria. So you could easily get stuck stepping through an awkward series of sentences that only have minor differences from each other, when you could be translating a group of sentences that is more diverse and has more value for you and the rest of the community.

TRANG TRANG 3 minutes ago 2019-11-20 17:04:02 link permalink

Hi Iriep, we thank you for being part of this project :)

> do you think that it could be added some percentages on Tatoeba website.

We could, but we would need to think carefully about it.

> 1. {percentage} of {English} sentences translated into {French}.

In my opinion, this would feel overwhelming or discouraging for many languages. It is very unlikely to ever reach 100% for most of the language pairs, and may remain forever below 10% forever (or at least for several decades).

> 2. {percentage} of {English} sentences with the {word} translated
> into {French}.

If we narrow down the stats to sentences with a certain word, it could be more manageable but I'm not sure if such a percentage would still make sense. If there are thousands of sentences with the word "love", is it really useful to translate all of them? It would be more useful to ensure that every word has a sentence that is translated.

Generally speaking, showing progress is, without a doubt, a powerful tool to influence motivation. But we should use it with caution and implement stats that encourage useful contributions.

Right now already, our stats could be working against us. We have a ranking for languages, based on the number of sentences in each language, and that can be an incentive for some people to value quantity over quality...

> Do you think that it could add a kind of new way to translate.

Improving the user experience for translating sentences is something I have been contemplating for the longest time. I mentioned already in other places the idea of reworking the "Translate sentences" page into a translation workspace.

I have some ideas of how this workspace could look like and what you describe isn't too far from what I have in mind.

> do you think that a dark them for Tatoeba could be imaginated?

Yes, this is also something I hope to have someday.

Iriep Iriep 4 hours ago 2019-11-20 12:33:29 link permalink

I have reviewed all the breton interface translation on transifex. Every mistacke is now corrected.
Do you think that it could be done a update for it?
Thank you.
Nice day
Regards/A galon

Pandaa Pandaa 4 days ago, edited 4 days ago 2019-11-16 14:17:26, edited 2019-11-16 14:24:08 link permalink

Ismer valaki a Tatoebához részben hasonló oldalt, ahol például gondolok olyanra, hogy szintén mondatokat lehet írni, azt leellenőriztetni anyanyelvi beszélőkkel?
Természetesen nem fórum jellegű. Arra már sok-sok példát láttam.
És talán valami szintrendszeres dolog is van az egészben, gondolok itt hasonlóan a memrise pontozására. (persze az nem mondatokra, hanem szavakra épít)

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AlanF_US AlanF_US 4 days ago, edited 4 days ago 2019-11-16 15:19:01, edited 2019-11-16 15:39:42 link permalink

I don't speak Hungarian, but here is Google's translation:

Does anyone know of a page similar to Tatoeba's, where I think, for example, that you can also write sentences and have them checked by native speakers?
Certainly not forum-like. I've seen lots of examples of that.
And maybe there is something systematic about it, I think about scoring memrise here. (of course, it does not rely on words, but on words)
My response:

The best site that I know for contributing posts for correction is Lang-8. Unfortunately, they no longer allow new accounts to be opened. However, italki offers similar functionality, called "Notebooks". Unlike Lang-8, italki Notebooks don't break up the content sentence by sentence, which means that it's hard to leave a comment that pertains to a specific sentence. Also, whereas Lang-8 offers keyboard shortcuts when you mark up a post with corrections (Ctrl-D for strikethrough, Ctrl-Alt-R to highlight text in red, etc.), italki Notebooks do not, as far as I can tell. This makes marking up text far more laborious. However, it's better than nothing.

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Pandaa Pandaa 2 days ago 2019-11-17 19:17:51 link permalink

Good to see that google translate is still not as good as many people think.

Thank you for your answer!
Don't you know why they suspended the sign-ups?

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AlanF_US AlanF_US 2 days ago, edited 2 days ago 2019-11-17 19:59:02, edited 2019-11-17 19:59:53 link permalink

The company that runs Lang-8 is trying to get people to use HiNative instead. HiNative is designed for asking short questions rather than submitting longer posts for correction.

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shekitten shekitten 2 days ago 2019-11-17 20:54:35 link permalink

HiNative only lets you submit sentences for correction if you pay them for the premium version of their app.

Seems like a big money grab on their part, since none of the people correcting get paid anything.

Orava Orava 23 hours ago 2019-11-19 17:37:42 link permalink

I've enjoyed the HelloTalk smartphone app.

khaledp16 khaledp16 2 days ago 2019-11-17 18:11:19 link permalink

I like Tatoeba so much so i created an Offline app for Android in order to make it possible to browse Tatoeba Sentences Offline.
my question is, is it allowed (legal) to publish this App on google play?

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Pandaa Pandaa 2 days ago 2019-11-17 19:13:18 link permalink

Offline app? What does it mean? Is there no stable connection between's services and the application?
Show it to TRANG. TRANG is the founder of the corpus.

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khaledp16 khaledp16 2 days ago 2019-11-17 19:19:31 link permalink

i mean, that I am going to include the Tatoeba database into the App, so there is no need to connect to the internet

CK CK 2 days ago 2019-11-17 23:33:59 link permalink

There is a wiki page...

Impersonator Impersonator 2 days ago 2019-11-18 07:37:21 link permalink

It's 100% legal to include Tatoeba data, if you include links to the original corpus, OR if you credit the contributors in another way.

However, if you want to name your application "Tatoeba App" or something similar, then please ask @Trang if she is OK with the name. But you need to ask only about the name, you don't need to ask about the sentences.

Pfirsichbaeumchen Pfirsichbaeumchen 12 days ago, edited 12 days ago 2019-11-08 07:06:29, edited 2019-11-08 07:06:46 link permalink


[ENG] Corpus Maintainer Candidate for English.

Shekitten has applied to become a corpus maintainer for English to help make necessary corrections in sentences owned by inactive members. As usual, we invite you all to give us your comments in a private message (simply click on the link below).

[EPO] Kandidato por iĝi bontenanto de la angla frazaro.

Shekitten kandidatas por iĝi bontenanto de la angla frazaro kaj do por helpi la korektadon de eraraj frazoj de anoj ne plu aktivaj. Laŭ la kutimo ni invitas ĉiun komenti pri tio en privata mesaĝo al ni (simple alklaku la suban ligilon).

[DEU] Korpuspflegerkandidatin für Englische.

Shekitten hat sich als Korpuspflegerin für das Englische beworben, um bei der Korrektur fehlerhafter Sätze nicht mehr aktiver Mitglieder zu helfen. Wie immer ist jeder eingeladen, sich hierzu in einer Privatnachricht an uns äußern (einfach auf die folgende Verknüpfung klicken).


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Pfirsichbaeumchen Pfirsichbaeumchen 6 days ago, edited 6 days ago 2019-11-14 11:18:21, edited 2019-11-14 11:22:08 link permalink


[ENG] Shekitten is now a corpus maintainer for English.

[DEU] Shekitten ist jetzt Korpuspflegerin für das Englische.

[EPO] Shekitten nun estas bontenanto por la angla frazaro.

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AlanF_US AlanF_US 6 days ago 2019-11-14 13:01:43 link permalink


PaulP PaulP 3 days ago 2019-11-16 19:46:14 link permalink

Korajn gratulojn al vi! Mi ĝojas, ke ni havas plian bonan kunlaboranton!

Ricardo14 Ricardo14 2 days ago 2019-11-17 17:24:13 link permalink

Awesome!!! Glad to know it! Congratulations!!!!

MisterTrouser MisterTrouser 6 days ago, edited 4 days ago 2019-11-14 14:05:23, edited 2019-11-16 13:05:03 link permalink

Topic: More Structure for tatoeba - Your opinion.


I'd like to hear your opinion on my following thought.
I created headings, to make it easier to jump through the points of interest only.

Problem, that I see:
Tatoeba is a very good source for example sentences. Also audio provision grows slowly. But it's rather a huge database with a frontend, than a source for structured learning. From my perspective, this makes its use for beginners quite difficult.

My Idea:
Give tatoeba more structure. Give a learner the opportunaty to say, "I am level 0, show me appropriate sentences" or, "I am level intermediate, show me advanced sentences".

Thoughts to have
- At the moment I'm thinking of doing this with lists.
- It's important, that this "common thread" does not end up in a list of random sentences. Reusing words and expressions from previous lists is important for making sure the learning-steps are small enough.
- One list of example sentences must not end up too long to tire the user. There should be just enough different versions of a sentence/expression to ensure the concept is understood.
- It's important to find the borderline from "sentences, that focus on grammarly aspects" and "sentences, that focus on expressional aspects" (feelings, complex expressions of complex situations)

Could I have your opinion on this subject?
Not like "I'm in" or "let's do this!", but rather "this is a good idea, but don't forget, that ..." or "this is a bad idea, because ...".

First steps I took:

As a first step I created four lists for people who know absolutely nothing of a language (here: German):

Deutsch / German: Basic Sentences ( 1 ): Just started a language.
Deutsch / German: Basic Sentences ( 2 ): adjectives
Deutsch / German: Basic Sentences ( 3 ): More nouns
Deutsch / German: Basic Sentences ( 4 ): I my, he his, ...


My idea with these lists would be:
(1) Translate the sentences inside it, to create those basic sentences in other languages. - Although as an ultimate goal it might be worth having different lists for different languages, if other examples make more sense in a language.
(2) Create more lists like this to provide the user with a common thread. I know, that giving a good direction here is very difficult.

Features needed:
Sortable list would be suuuch a nice2have for the structuring.


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Thanuir Thanuir 6 days ago, edited 6 days ago 2019-11-14 15:17:02, edited 2019-11-14 15:18:16 link permalink

(The links do not work. You have only copied the shortened link displayed somewhere, rather than the actual link.)

* Maybe @CK has some insight, given the curation he has done with English sentences. He has avoided some kinds of near-duplicates in his curation.

* There are methods of sorting sentences by difficulty, and doing it automatically. The method of this Anki deck sorts sentences by frequency of words, for example; not perfect, but reasonably good:

Duolingo has made an AI tool for some languages: ; Some of it can be tested here, but it is probably not available as such for us mere mortals, Duoling being a company that aims for profit:

Similar automatic methods of sorting sentences by difficulty might be worth investigation. If there exists a database of sentences and difficulties, than it might a reasonably straightforward machine learning task to have a neural network learn to classify more sentences. (Reasonably straightforward for an expert.)

Maybe clozemaster also does something like this?

* Curated lists of sentences can be useful regardless.

* I use Tatoeba as a dictionary and a collection of sentences I can translate. I will learn a bit by translating sentences herein. If there was a curated list of, say, beginner sentencs in French (a language I know poorly but am learning at the moment), then I could try to translate sentences from that list. That would be useful.

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AlanF_US AlanF_US 6 days ago 2019-11-14 16:13:47 link permalink

> Maybe clozemaster also does something like this?

Yes, Clozemaster sorts sentences by frequency of the word that it wants you to guess within a sentence.

My opinion regarding MisterTrouser's proposal is that this is the kind of project that can use Tatoeba data, with our blessing, but should be implemented and managed outside the Tatoeba Project.

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Yorwba Yorwba 5 days ago 2019-11-14 19:45:40 link permalink

I think Clozemaster also only blanks out the least frequent word in a given sentence, so it ends up sorting sentences first where the frequency of the least frequent word is highest.

I've found that kind of minimax approach to be quite good compared to other variants I've tried in my own practice system. Taking the average frequency puts long sentences with a few rare words too early, and trying to estimate the frequency of a sentence by treating every word as independently identically distributed puts too much weight on one-word sentences (or even non-sentences).

I agree that it's better for that kind of project to simply use Tatoeba data, with Tatoeba staying a huge database with frontend. If specific improvements to features like collaborative lists etc. are required to support that use, I'm sure they can be implemented.

I can see one advantage of adding features for learners directly to Tatoeba, which is that it would make it more obvious how to correct mistakes one spots while learning. In theory the attribution required by copyright should be enough for that, but in practice it doesn't seem to be presented as a way to contribute improvements to the underlying data.

Aiji Aiji 5 days ago 2019-11-15 06:18:18 link permalink

I second this opinion for any kind of similar project.
A corpus of sentences is supposed to be independent of any project structure that may use these sentences.

CK CK 5 days ago 2019-11-15 00:33:40 link permalink

Perhaps you'd find this useful.

These are English sentences selected by vocabulary, not by sentence structures

Read the "About" section on the above page for more information.

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CK CK 5 days ago, edited 5 days ago 2019-11-15 00:45:42, edited 2019-11-15 00:49:52 link permalink

This is something else that I created that is similar to the approach of the Danish Anki file mentioned by Thanuir.

This uses Japanese sentences from the Tatoeba Corpus.

One Japanese kanji is introduced at a time. Read the top of the page for more information.

CK CK 5 days ago, edited 5 days ago 2019-11-15 03:47:09, edited 2019-11-15 04:26:37 link permalink

There is also this list that you can browse, or use in advanced searches

NGSL - Level 1

Contains 115,020 sentences

You can read about the NGSL here.

If you want a random selection of sentences from this list, you can use this link.

Using the same list with this advanced search, you might possibly get something similar to the aim of MisterTrouser's "Basic Sentences ( 4 ): I my, he his, ..."


Limited to:
List 7389 (NGSL - Level 1)


Here is the same search using one of the OGTE lists instead.

Limited to:
List 7409 (OGTE - Level 3 ~200 Headwords - Mid-beginner)

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CK CK 4 days ago, edited 4 days ago 2019-11-16 01:15:33, edited 2019-11-16 01:44:27 link permalink

You can also combine searching for sentences on a certain list and sentences with tags.

List 7389 (NGSL - Level 1)
Tagged imperative

List 7408 (OGTE-Level 02: Early-beginner)
Tagged SVC

List 7414 (OGTE-Level 08: Early-intermediate)
Tagged both SVO and past simple,past%20simple

Yorwba Yorwba 4 days ago 2019-11-16 15:02:13 link permalink

> Features needed:
> =================
> Sortable list would be suuuch a nice2have for the structuring.

What kind of criterion would be used to sort these lists? One of those currently available for searching or something new?

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CK CK 3 days ago, edited 3 days ago 2019-11-17 03:09:23, edited 2019-11-17 03:49:08 link permalink

There are already several ways to sort lists.

All these links are based on the following list.

OGTE-Level 14: Early-advanced (~3,000 headwords)
Contains 4,953 sentences

1. When the sentences were added to the list (oldest first)

2. When the sentences were added to the list (reversed - newest first)

3. Sentence ID numbers (the order sentences were added to the database - oldest first)

4. Sentence ID numbers (reverse order - newest first)

Using the advanced search, you can also get the first 1,000 results for the following sorts.

5. Sentences with the most words first

6. Sentences with the fewest words first

7. Sentences with the newest modification date

8. Sentences with the oldest modification date

9. Sentences in a random order

I would suspect that sorting lists alphabetically wouldn't be so useful for members, but I do that sometimes with the exported data.

If you want to get an idea how an alphabetically-sorted list would look, load in this page, and then click the column heading "Text."

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MisterTrouser MisterTrouser 3 days ago, edited 3 days ago 2019-11-17 11:47:49, edited 2019-11-17 11:55:09 link permalink

Thank you all very much for your Input.

Your lists seem pretty nice. I'm thinking of working on translations to them. I think they are a pretty good working-on point!
Although, I feel from a psycological standpoint, they should be further devided. 244 pages for just the first list and 755 for the second feels too discouraging, I think.

From your search I got the insight, that "temporary lists" can easily be created, if the search options are set in a smart way.

I wish I knew that earlier!

> What kind of criterion would be used to sort these lists? One of those currently available for searching or something new?
I would imaging some kind of index, that tells their desired position.

Although, I'm also not sure, if a list of > 200 items is easily hand managable.

@Sorting lists
Thank you for your input regarding list sorting, CK. However, they are all technical. Regarding the "fewest words" / "most words" search:

A learner should find 食べに行きましょう before さあ行こう. Just as one example where a "technical" search will probably always fail.

@Alphabetical sorting:
This looks interesting regarding English. I wonder how it looks for something like Japanese (useful / random)

Like I said, thank you very much for all your input. As you might read from my answer, I'm also not too sure myself at the moment which route to take.

By the way, maybe it would be nice, to emphasize good/structured lists a little more? Maybe an interface like:
Search for a word here .... or view sentences in organized lists.
At the moment there are two many (useless?) lists ( I mean... "O", "Of", "se / sa" ...).

E.g. let's say OGTE lists are THE lists. I hardly believe anyone will every find them on their own. Maybe a list-rating system like the one used for shared anki decks?

illiterate illiterate 3 days ago, edited 2 days ago 2019-11-17 14:38:37, edited 2019-11-18 09:28:01 link permalink

It would be nice to have a Translations Wanted page similar to the Sentences Wanted page.

I'm not looking for people to translate my sentences. I'm looking for vocabulary in some language with few or no translations into some other language.

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TRANG TRANG 3 days ago, edited 5 hours ago 2019-11-17 14:53:08, edited 2019-11-20 11:17:14 link permalink

Technically you can already do that by creating a list and naming it "Translations wanted". Then you can mention it on the Wall to make people aware about it. You can also mention it in your profile.

Edit: this reply is no longer relevant. When I replied, the message was only "It would be nice to have a Translations Wanted page similar to the Sentences Wanted page."

AmarMecheri AmarMecheri 3 days ago 2019-11-17 15:58:06 link permalink

Hi there!.

For those who practise more and less one of these languages (English, Kabyle, French), you are welcome, whatever your nationality, to our newest group "English-French speaking Kabyles" which also give place to Tatoeba, provided the members want it.

CK CK 3 days ago 2019-11-17 03:32:23 link permalink

My list of proofread English sentences that I use on my projects now has 732,306 sentences.

For comparison:

Italian, the language with the 2nd-most sentences, has 733,722 sentences.
Russian, the language with the 3rd-most sentences, has 725,304 sentences.

For those who are interested, I have a search form at the top of this page that helps you easily limit searches to sentences on this list.

MessDjaaf MessDjaaf 4 days ago, edited 4 days ago 2019-11-16 13:47:44, edited 2019-11-16 13:54:02 link permalink

Ɣef uẓar YWN / JWN deg tmaziɣt

Deg teqbaylit, ur d-yegri deg waẓar-a hala yisem "tawant". Amyag yettubeddel s umerḍil aɛrab "ṛwu / seṛwu".

Maca deg tcawit, yella umyag "yyiwen / syawen". Deg tutlayin timaziɣin niḍen, am tmajeɣt n Mali, qqaren "jjiwen".

A win yafen, deg tutlayt yuran, ad nesseqdac awalen "yyiwen" (ṛwu) - "seyyiwen" (seṛwu) - taywant (ṛeggu).

S wakk-a, nezmer ad nemsiẓ tutlayin timaziɣin s kra n yisurifen akken ad yishil umsiweḍ gar Yimaziɣen.

Orava Orava 8 days ago 2019-11-12 16:25:49 link permalink

Any good lists of funny/witty/interesting sentences? Although I enjoy many simple sentences too, for example "Do you have any pets?". But yeah sometimes... When I get that feeling, I need unusual sentences.

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Thanuir Thanuir 8 days ago, edited 7 days ago 2019-11-12 16:41:38, edited 2019-11-12 17:52:36 link permalink

Joitakin ehdotuksia:

1. Etsi alkaen pisimmästä lauseesta.

2. Älä käännä englannista. Jos käännät, niin älä ainakaan rajoita hakujasi nauhoitettuihin lauseisiin. Myös epänatiivien lauseet ovat usein monipuolisempia. Orvoissa lauseissa on välillä jänniä kielikuvia, joista osa on oikein.

3. Kun törmäät kiinnostavaan sanaan, etsi sitä sanaa ja käännä lauseita, kunnes törmäät uuteen kiinnostavaan sanaan.

4. Jos joku tietty aihepiiri nappaa, katso löytyisikö siihen viittaava tunniste.

5. Aloita suomentaminen lyhyistä lauseista. Siellä on usein huudahduksia, haukkumasanoja, slangia jne. jota harvemmin löytyy pitemmistä lauseista. Ja helpot lauseet ovat nopeita kääntää...

Thanuir Thanuir 8 days ago 2019-11-12 16:48:08 link permalink

Kengurut Itävallassa on ihan hauska tunniste.

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Orava Orava 7 days ago 2019-11-13 15:40:17 link permalink

Kiitos kaikille vastanneille.

soliloquist soliloquist 7 days ago 2019-11-12 18:36:16 link permalink (Turkish)

Thanuir Thanuir 4 days ago 2019-11-16 07:27:54 link permalink

Yksi touhu, josta ainakin itse saan välillä hupia, on etsiä monitulkintaisia sanoja tai fraaseja. Ne voi sitten suomentaa vähintään yhdellä kutakin merkitystä vastaavalla tavalla.