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Wall (5,938 threads)

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Before asking a question, make sure to read the FAQ.

We aim to maintain a healthy atmosphere for civilized discussions. Please read our rules against bad behavior.

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earthsophagus

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earthsophagus earthsophagus 5 hours ago, edited 5 hours ago August 9, 2020 at 7:56 PM, edited August 9, 2020 at 8:01 PM link Permalink

I am happy to have found this site -- I tried a couple time to make something like this but don't have the technical skill. I have a few comments/questions. I suspect all have come up before, but didn't see answers in FAQ.


* is it possible to search the Wall?

* When looking at a sentence, can one see all the tags that have been applied to it? E.g. #3451959, [have you ever noticed how many near-anagrams 6 first digits in pi come up in daily life or is it just me?] I think I got there by following "Compound sentence" tag. Now, I'd like to know if it has been tagged by a French tag similar to "Compound Sentence", but I don't know/can't guess how a French speaker would tag it -- can I see all the tags applied to that sentence?

* I'm generally interested in longer sentences -- it it seems like an obvious feature to add to the "Advance Search" page (At least/At most X words). Is it not feasible?

* It seems to me like set-up with Shtooka tools is a hindrance, and the demo of how to get crystal-clear recorinds is a bit intimidating. I don't even own a microphone! So, I don't know if your goal is to have all recordings very clear -- I'd see a value in a variety of situations, like talking with other voices in the background, talking with a mouthful of food, talking with uhms, pauses, excitedly. (My interest is as a language learner, not an archivist). Have you hashed over this topic and decided a goal of Tatoeba is to have recording uniformly high quality? And would you be interested in easier to use audio-gathering tool at the expense of lower sound quality? (and probably also at the expense of attributing to a specific tatoeba user without a fair amount of programming.)

* do you solicit/accept "help pay for hosting" money contributions?

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Ricardo14 Ricardo14 4 hours ago, edited 4 hours ago August 9, 2020 at 9:43 PM, edited August 9, 2020 at 9:44 PM link Permalink

> I don't even own a microphone!

I'm using my webcam to record sentences for now.

Donations - https://tatoeba.org/eng/donate

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earthsophagus earthsophagus 51 minutes ago August 10, 2020 at 12:54 AM link Permalink

Thank you!

CK CK 2 hours ago, edited 2 hours ago August 9, 2020 at 11:05 PM, edited August 9, 2020 at 11:09 PM link Permalink

* is it possible to search the Wall?

Not really, However, if you download the weekly export of Wall posts, you can search them offline if you know how to.

* When looking at a sentence, can one see all the tags that have been applied to it?

All tags on a given sentence are shown on the right side of the sentence's page.

* I'm generally interested in longer sentences

You can use the advanced search to find the longest sentences, though it's not possible to easily find sentences with "At least/At most X words."

Here is a pre-filled in advanced search form set up to find the French sentences with the most words that also have English translations. Just go here and input a French word or phrase, or skip inputting a French word and click the "Search" button to find the longest French sentences.

https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...rt_reverse=yes

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earthsophagus earthsophagus 48 minutes ago August 10, 2020 at 12:57 AM link Permalink

Thank you * 3

CK CK an hour ago, edited 18 minutes ago August 10, 2020 at 12:11 AM, edited August 10, 2020 at 1:27 AM link Permalink

** Create a Search Template **

You can now create pre-filled advanced search forms by clicking the "Create a Search Template" at the bottom of the search form.

One good way to use these would be to copy the resulting URLs and paste them into your profile, so you can easily use them in the future.


* Here are 2 examples of what can be done.

Pre-filled advanced search form set to search for English sentences limited to the 750,000+ sentences on List 907.
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...m=eng&list=907

Pre-filled advanced search form set to search for English sentences limited to those with audio.
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...&has_audio=yes


* These are somewhat similar to what these do.
(These may possibly load the presets faster since these "search" pages get cached on your own computer.)

Create a Dashboard of Customized Links for Tatoeba.org
http://study.aitech.ac.jp/tatoe...late/links.php

Preset Searches for Study on Tatoeba.org
http://study.aitech.ac.jp/tatoe...ate/links3.php
Similar to above, but just search forms set up by default to find bilingual sentence pairs to study.

Useful Search Forms and Links
http://tatoeba.ueuo.com/

earthsophagus earthsophagus 2 hours ago August 9, 2020 at 11:00 PM link Permalink

On sentence #2249633, "There's no one sitting here", would it be appropriate to add a "translation" "It's not taken" or "This seat's free" ?

I get that cumulative coverage is more important that exhausting every variation of a sentence, bu my gut feeling is that for this sentence we have 2 of the 4 major variants

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CK CK 2 hours ago August 9, 2020 at 11:20 PM link Permalink

No. However, if you feel these are natural-sounding sentences, then you can add them as new sentences. It's likely that the same sentence in another language might eventually get linked to all three of these sentences, so they would become indirect links.

You can add comments on sentences saying that they are related.

For example, this sentence ....

[#6657561] I have trouble remembering my students' names. (CK)

... has this comment ...

Related:

[#38712] I just can't memorize students' names. (CK) *audio*

m0ya m0ya 10 hours ago August 9, 2020 at 3:05 PM link Permalink

How could I add my language that does not found in the list of languages?

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AlanF_US AlanF_US 10 hours ago August 9, 2020 at 3:24 PM link Permalink

If you follow the "FAQ" link at the bottom of any page, you'll see a page that contains an item "How can I request a new language?" Here's the link:

https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...guage-request#

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m0ya m0ya 9 hours ago August 9, 2020 at 3:48 PM link Permalink

how to The link to the image that you suggest we use for the language icon

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AlanF_US AlanF_US 8 hours ago August 9, 2020 at 4:56 PM link Permalink

You can upload the image to an image-hosting site such as imgur, but you can alternatively put the image into an e-mail to the language team, which should be easier. I updated the instructions to make that less confusing.

TRANG TRANG 5 days ago, edited 5 days ago August 4, 2020 at 10:19 PM, edited August 4, 2020 at 10:20 PM link Permalink

** What's New on Tatoeba? - Your biweekly recap #22 **

(What's New on Tatoeba will be published biweekly until the end of August.)


KODOEBA EVENT

※ We are in the last week of Kodoeba and we have five new issues solved on internal code since last time.

• It is now possible to remove a sentence from a list from the sentence page. Thanks to Ricardo14 for reporting the issue and nummer_001 for implementing it.
• There is a new visibility option for lists, in case you want your list to be shown on the sentence page to every user (and not just to yourself). Thanks to soliloquist for raising the issue and nummer_001 for working on it.
• Unicode characters are now showing up properly in list names. Thanks to soliloquist for reporting the issue and ftumsh for fixing it.
• You can now save create URL for templates from the advanced search. Thanks to Ricardo14 for triggering the idea and jpear1 for implementing it.
• The sort options have been redesigned. Thanks to Trang for the design suggestion, AlanF_US for the help with the wording and Roverandom789133 for the implementation.

※ There are three additional external projects which you can have a peek at:

• quielin's TatoebaViewer mobile app (it's still a prototype): https://github.com/Tatoeba/TatoebaViewer
• xiuyuan's website to search Chinese sentences (work still in progress): https://www.chineseboost.com/ch...mple-sentences
• diegohn's flashcard webapp (not deployed anywhere, but there's a video explaining how to install it locally): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad0tP00z_VQ


UPDATES

※ Mobile users can now change the position of the cursor in text inputs. Thanks to rumpelstilzchen for reporting this bug and Trang for fixing it.

※ When searching sentences sorted randomly, the results are no longer re-randomized when going back to a previous page. Thanks to AlanF_US for reporting the issue and gillux for fixing it.


ON THE WALL

※ driini announced that the Quick Start Guide has been fully translated into German: https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/show_message/35705

※ CK announced that we have a new Japanese voice: https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/show_message/35698

※ OptiMaximus asked what "Tatoeba" means: https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/show_message/35679

※ pergpau brought up the topic of quality in the corpus and subsequently became an advanced contributor to help improve the quality of Norwegian Bokmål sentences: https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/show_message/35667


LANGUAGES

※ Tatoeba is supporting one new language: Karakhanid.

※ Slovak has been enabled on production as a UI language.

As usual, thanks to all the members who helped to translate the website!

----------

If you'd like to help to the development of Tatoeba, report issues, or are just curious, have a look at the GitHub repository.

If you want to help us translate the website to your language, you can join us on Transifex: https://www.transifex.com/tatoe...ite/dashboard/ and check this article on the wiki https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...e-translation.

If you're especially happy with one of the updates, don't hesitate to personally thank our developers :) They're working in the shadow but they'll be glad to hear your feedback.

----------

Last recap: https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/show_message/35658
See this recap on the blog: https://blog.tatoeba.org/2020/0...-biweekly.html

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AlanF_US AlanF_US 4 days ago August 5, 2020 at 10:45 PM link Permalink

> • The sort options have been redesigned. Thanks to Trang for the design suggestion, AlanF_US for the help with the wording and Roverandom789133 for the implementation.

Is it the sort options or the list options that have been redesigned? I thought I offered help with the wording for the list options.

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rumpelstilzchen rumpelstilzchen 3 days ago August 6, 2020 at 4:19 AM link Permalink

You've helped with the wording for both. :-)

The wording for the sort options was discussed back in February: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tato...ment-583938660

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AlanF_US AlanF_US 3 days ago August 6, 2020 at 1:56 PM link Permalink

Oh, I see. So this involves sort options in numerous places throughout the interface, changing the display of options where they already existed, and adding options where we didn't have any before (for instance, lists and member names). This is nice to see.

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TRANG TRANG 2 days ago August 7, 2020 at 9:54 PM link Permalink

To be honest you are helping with many wordings but I guess that case was more noteworthy to me because you found a good solution to avoid some awkward wording for the member status :)

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AlanF_US AlanF_US 10 hours ago August 9, 2020 at 3:22 PM link Permalink

:)

CK CK 17 hours ago August 9, 2020 at 7:53 AM link Permalink


** 1,000 High-frequency English 3-grams **

http://tatoeba.ueuo.com/3-grams.html

... with links to both Tatoeba Sentences and YouGlish.com.

earthsophagus earthsophagus yesterday August 8, 2020 at 7:00 PM link Permalink

Newcomer -- I was adding some sentences, "puree" was one request --

I put in 8965573 -- Usually I put a bit of juice in the blender with the banana to get a puree easier. ("easier" is wrong but "more easily" a bit formal)

Are "usage" notes like that discouraged/helpful?

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AlanF_US AlanF_US yesterday August 8, 2020 at 7:38 PM link Permalink

Welcome to Tatoeba! We appreciate your asking a question rather than making an assumption.

Notes within sentences themselves (including at the end) are discouraged. See "Rules and Guidelines"/"Do not write extra information within the same sentence":

https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...n-the-sentence

In fact, all the guidelines on that page are worth reading.

You could write a usage note as a comment. But in this case, I'm puzzled by what you're trying to accomplish. It looks like you're adding a sentence that you yourself think is wrong. That's against the goal of the project, which is to build a collection of sentences of high quality, even when they're informal. If, on the other hand, you want to add a sentence that you think is good but informal, then you should go ahead with it. Whether you add a comment is up to you. Most sentences do not have comments with usage notes, but that doesn't mean you can't add them. As you spend more time here, you can look at existing sentences and see how many have such comments.

Enjoy your time here!

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earthsophagus earthsophagus yesterday August 8, 2020 at 8:33 PM link Permalink

Thanks, I'll remove / rework that one. In that case, I put what I think is "natural" -- what I'd say, what I wouldn't notice if I heard -- but in print it is clear to me it is grammatically wrong (from prescriptive POV). So I think the guidelines say I go ahead and add the sentence, with a note to same effect?

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AlanF_US AlanF_US yesterday, edited yesterday August 9, 2020 at 1:34 AM, edited August 9, 2020 at 1:36 AM link Permalink

As I wrote in a comment on the sentence, I don't think the sentence is grammatically wrong, prescriptively or otherwise. But in any case, yes, go ahead and add the sentence, with a note if you want.

One more tip: if you want to refer to a sentence in a Wall message, you can write a hash sign (#) before its ID to create a link to it. Here's an example: #8965573.

pergpau pergpau 16 days ago, edited 16 days ago July 24, 2020 at 4:23 PM, edited July 24, 2020 at 4:23 PM link Permalink

There are so many sentences wrongly translated by non-native users. Many of these by users who no longer log in. How can these sentences "be saved"? It's polluting the quality of the entire project.

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AlanF_US AlanF_US 16 days ago July 24, 2020 at 5:36 PM link Permalink

Please add comments to the translated sentences. Also, please consider applying to become an advanced contributor so that you can add tags to make sure the sentences are regularly reviewed, and then to become a corpus maintainer so that you can fix sentences yourself.

According to your profile, you are a native speaker of Norwegian Bokmål. We have a large backlog of sentences in that language that are tagged "@needs native check". (See https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/sh...#message_35653 . ) Any help you can give us would be greatly appreciated!

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pergpau pergpau 16 days ago July 24, 2020 at 6:49 PM link Permalink

Thanks for the quick reply. The problem is that leaving comments does nothing when the original owner has stopped using tatoeba. So the answer is that this problem is basically up to the "corpus maintainers" to fix?

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AlanF_US AlanF_US 16 days ago July 24, 2020 at 7:25 PM link Permalink

Yes, that's what corpus maintainers do.

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pergpau pergpau 15 days ago July 25, 2020 at 9:54 AM link Permalink

I have been giving it some thought and have decided to apply to become an advanced contributor, and later a corpus maintainer. I'm pretty busy with other projects, but I also feel the Tatoeba project is way to important for it be riddled with so many poor sentences. I will find the time to contribute.

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Thanuir Thanuir 15 days ago July 25, 2020 at 11:30 AM link Permalink

Mange takk.

AlanF_US AlanF_US 15 days ago July 25, 2020 at 3:32 PM link Permalink

I'm very glad to hear it! From CK's table ( https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/sh...#message_35681 ), I can see that no native speakers other than you have contributed sentences in the last month. Given the absence of other active native speakers, your help will be especially valuable.

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pergpau pergpau 15 days ago July 25, 2020 at 4:14 PM link Permalink

I am now an AC and actively linking, tagging and commenting nob sentences :)

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AlanF_US AlanF_US 15 days ago July 25, 2020 at 4:21 PM link Permalink

Excellent!

Objectivesea Objectivesea 14 days ago July 26, 2020 at 10:47 AM link Permalink

Jeg gratulerer deg med avtalen din. Mi gratulas vin pri via nomumo. I congratulate you on your appointment.

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pergpau pergpau 14 days ago July 26, 2020 at 10:49 AM link Permalink

Takktakk :)

earthsophagus earthsophagus yesterday August 8, 2020 at 6:01 PM link Permalink

Thank you.

Ricardo14 Ricardo14 16 days ago July 24, 2020 at 5:45 PM link Permalink

How to become an Advanced Contributor - https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...d-contributors

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AlanF_US AlanF_US 15 days ago July 25, 2020 at 3:33 PM link Permalink

Thanks, Ricardo.

pergpau pergpau 16 days ago July 24, 2020 at 6:54 PM link Permalink

I have an MA in second language acquisition and I have taught Norwegian as a second language at a university in Oslo for many years. I guess I'm formally qualified, but I don't know if I have time to contribute as much as you expect from a superuser.

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Thanuir Thanuir 16 days ago July 24, 2020 at 7:00 PM link Permalink

Det er så mange feil ved norske setninger at noen som bare går gjennom dem, uansett hvor langsomt eller snabbt, og gjør dem bedre, er allerede verdifull.

Jeg har bare boet i Norge for et par år og har allerede funnet mange problem.

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AlanF_US AlanF_US 16 days ago July 24, 2020 at 7:33 PM link Permalink

As Thanuir says, any amount would help. One thing that would help that would not require an ongoing commitment would be to look through the native Norwegian Bokmål speakers ( https://tatoeba.org/eng/users/for_language/nob ) and figure out which active members know the language well and might also be interested in helping out. If you or Thanuir would be interested in doing that, please feel free to send me a private message.

MisterTrouser MisterTrouser 3 days ago August 6, 2020 at 1:40 PM link Permalink

Short Enhancement request:
The search "^Tom * * * Mary$" searches sentences with 5 words - 1 word per star.

However: "^Tom * * *" or "* * *" does not search for 1 word per star.

Suggestion:
Make it possible to search for sentences with word counts through star numbers

Reason:
Consistency

Disclaimer:
I did not check if this would interfere with other search options.

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AlanF_US AlanF_US 3 days ago, edited 3 days ago August 6, 2020 at 5:00 PM, edited August 6, 2020 at 5:00 PM link Permalink

Rather than give a general reason like "consistency", could you please give a broader picture as to what you're trying to achieve, and why the current behavior doesn't provide it for you? By "what you're trying to achieve", I don't just mean "I'm trying to find sentences that start with 'Tom' and contain exactly five words, without my having to specify the last one". I mean why, in the bigger picture, do you want to find sentences that start with 'Tom' and contain exactly five words, and given this reason, why is it a problem to specify the last word?

Note also that the basic syntax of searches is determined by our search engine (Manticore), not us. There are occasions when we do some preprocessing on our own side (for instance, when the search query ends with a question mark that is intended as punctuation, not a wildcard), but those are very rare.

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MisterTrouser MisterTrouser 3 days ago August 6, 2020 at 11:25 PM link Permalink

I personally would use it to search sentences with a specific number of words. So I personally would use it as "* * * * *" to find a three-word sentence.
Why? Because in many cases searches hit too many single words ("ouch!") or two word sentences ("go away"). If their count exceeds 1000, the search result is useless.

> why is it a problem to specify the last word?
Because I there are many possible last words?
Ok, maybe something similar to
^(a*|b*|c*|d*|e*|f*|g*|h*|i*|j*|k*|l*|m*|n*|o*|p*|q*|r*|s*|t*|u*|v*|w*|x*|y*|z*) * * * (a*|b*|c*|d*|e*|f*|g*|h*|i*|j*|k*|l*|m*|n*|o*|p*|q*|r*|s*|t*|u*|v*|w*|x*|y*|z*)$

might work. But that kind of search is too heavy.

Imagine you want to study the word "go". You might search for "* * go * *" to find "usable" example sentences you can use to study with. You cannot get more than three words:
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...o=und&page=100
Or less than too many:
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...sort=relevance

Regarding the pure word count search I had a conversation with C K before (where I thought I might solve the problem myself).

The main reason for posting again is the added reason of search syntax consitency ( I know, repeat, but I added clearer examples this time):

From Wiki:
> This example finds English sentences that have "Tom", then two words, then "Mary", then one word, and then "John."

> "Tom * * Mary * John"

> This example finds English sentences that start with "Tom", then have three words, then end with "Mary".

> "^Tom * * * Mary$"

So why would "^Tom * * *" not work?

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CK CK 2 days ago, edited 2 days ago August 7, 2020 at 1:53 AM, edited August 7, 2020 at 2:02 AM link Permalink

> ^(a*|b*|c*|d*|e*|f*|g*|h*|i*|j*|k*|l*|m*|n*|o*|p*|q*|r*|s*|t*|u*|v*|w*|x*|y*|z*) * * * (a*|b*|c*|d*|e*|f*|g*|h*|i*|j*|k*|l*|m*|n*|o*|p*|q*|r*|s*|t*|u*|v*|w*|x*|y*|z*)$

This looks like it might work, but when I tried it, it got a time-out error, which triggered the "currently unavailable" page to be displayed.

Tatoeba is currently unavailable. We are sorry for the inconvenience. You can check our blog or Twitter for more information.

There is a GitHub issue related to this incorrect time-out error message.
https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/1524

Thanuir Thanuir 2 days ago August 7, 2020 at 7:39 AM link Permalink

Rajoittamalla kielen englantiin saat myös nelisanaisia lauseita, mutta tämä ei auta paljoakaan. Jos kiellät joitakin sanoja, lauseita on vähemmän ja näet myös pitempiä. Esimerkiksi kieltämällä muutaman nimen yli puolet lauseista on nelisanaisia: https://tatoeba.org/spa/sentenc...sort=relevance

Sen sijaan satunnainen järjestys antaa paljon keskipitkiä lauseita. Ehkä siitä on hyötyä sinulle?

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MisterTrouser MisterTrouser 2 days ago August 7, 2020 at 11:40 PM link Permalink

Thanuir: That's a workaround that might 'accidentally' work. It's nothing to rely on. Especcially, because you don't know which words to forbid at the search (remember, we're talking probably about a language the user is not familiar with)

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CK CK 2 days ago August 8, 2020 at 12:42 AM link Permalink

I don't know if it is possible, but would something like the following work for you if this could be done?

In the advanced search have either both or one of these possibilities.

1. When the results are sorted by the number of words, have the option to only display sentences with X or more words. For example, 5 or more words, 6 or more words, 7 or more words, ...

2. No matter how results are sorted, have the option to skip the first so many results. For example, 500, 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500, ...

Thanuir Thanuir yesterday August 8, 2020 at 4:58 AM link Permalink

Tarjosin ehdotuksena sinun ongelmaasi, jonka tuossa esitit. Se ei ole mitenkään ideaalinen, mutta toiminee purkkaratkaisuna, kunnes jotain parempaa keksitään.

Se toimii myös sikäli yleisesti, että rajoitteiden lisääminen oleellisesti aina vähentää lauseiden määrää. Niinpä, aina jos löytää vain liian lyhyitä tai pitkiä lauseita, voi vain lisätä rajoituksen. Jos rajoitti liikaa, poistaa rajoituksen.

chloeharper chloeharper 3 days ago August 6, 2020 at 6:15 PM link Permalink
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