Thanks a lot for this wonderful Tatoeba recap! :D

I always found that the three-letter code got in my way.

I have had a look at the vocabulary items that need sentences and most of them are relatively rare words. It's quite hard even for a native speaker to make sentences with such words. Such words are sometimes rare even in the largest online corpora.

I find this site useful for example sentences.

http://sentencedict.com/

Unfortunately, it's monolingual.

I've opened an issue in the bugtracker

→ https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/1723

1. People can release their sentences.

A number of members do this when they contribute in a non-native language, so a native speaker can adopt them.

2. Many of the English and Japanese "orphans" are sentences imported from the Tanaka Corpus.

http://www.edrdg.org/wiki/index.php/Tanaka_Corpus

For reference: https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...ck-start#adopt

Worum geht es denn hier? Du kannst mir eine Privatnachricht schreiben. 🙂

Folyton magyar részről látom ezt, hogy próbálunk rájönni a Tatoeba fő, vagy bizonyos tartalmának céljára.
Úgy látszik nem megy, vagy sokat képzelünk bele és nem teljesíti.
Pár napja azt fogalmaztam meg, hogy sokkalta nagyobb szerkesztői tábor kéne lehetőleg különböző korosztályokból együttesen, mely aztán sokkalta jobban reprezentálná a nyelv helyzetét.
Lehet a szerver nem bírná, vagy nem is cél.

Ez egy jó kezdeményezés, hisz akár olyasmi is bekerülhet, amit a saját blogodon nem írsz le, amivel a médiában nem találkozol.
Lehet a kezdeményezés örökre csak kezdeményezés marad. (ezért még tuti nyaklevest oszt Trang)

És ha az marad? És ha mondatok százai, ezrei hevernek lefordítatlanul kb az idők végeztéig? És ha csak több lesz Tomból?

Lehet túl sokat képzeltünk bele, viszont én biztosan, de már első perctől kezdve.
Ez toxikus.
Plusz, még tudok választani párat ezek közül:
"We do not tolerate

Insults: saying something offensive about someone or some people.
Harassment: bothering someone repeatedly.
Accusations: stating that someone is doing something with bad intentions.
Blaming: saying that a problem is due to someone’s fault.
Provocation: writing something that intentionally makes other people angry.
Retaliation: replying to insults, harassment, accusations, blaming or provocation with something that doesn't help.
Bad faith: lying, deceiving, being dishonest.
Sabotage: intentionally damaging the corpus.

Generally speaking, we do not tolerate any kind of behavior that harms the collaborative and civilized atmosphere of Tatoeba."

https://tatoeba.org/eng/user/profile/Pandaa

C'est une phrase très stupide pour tellement de raisons que je ne vais pas m'ennuyer à les énumérer ici, d'autres le feront sans doute à ma place. Par exemple, essayez de "trouver sur Google" plus de trois phrases du patois marnais, de savoie, ou de Puisaye, et on se rappelle, hein.

Mais le plus évident, c'est que pour qu'il y ait des traductions, il faut bien qu'il y ait des phrases originales. Si vous êtes une personne triste ou sans imagination, libre à vous de ne faire que traduire, mais n'essayez pas d'en dissuader les autres. (D'autre part, si vous pensez, comme on l'a déjà entendu par ici, qu'une phrase n'a d'intérêt que si elle a une traduction anglaise, vous n'avez pas compris grand-chose aux langues.)

Enfin, prendre son expérience seule comme vérité absolue ne mène jamais bien loin, mais là je m'éloigne sans doute un peu du sujet.

Kääntämättömätkin lauseet ovat hyödyllisiä.

1. Kun osaa kieltä jo hieman, pelkästään sanan näkeminen lauseyhteydessä voi riittää kertomaan, mitä se tarkoittaa ja miten se toimii.

2. Kielikuvia on usein vaikea kääntää, mutta ne pystyy usein ymmärtämään luettuaan.

3. Mikään ei estä muita käyttäjiä myöhemmin kääntämästä kääntämättömiä lauseita.

4. Koneoppiminen voi hyödyntää myös kääntämättömiä lauseita ja Tatoebaa voi käyttää yhtenä lähteenä.

...

Myös vanhahtava kieli slangi ovat avuliaita, koska niistä voi oppia lukemaan ja ymmärtämään epätavallista kielenkäyttöä. Esimerkiksi aukikirjoitettujen murteiden lukeminen on ainakin minulle haastavaa, mutta sitäkin voi oppia näkemällä liudan esimerkkejä. Sama vanhahtavan ja teknisen sanaston kanssa.

Hitusenkaan kieltä osaava pystyy melko helposti erottamaan vahvasti murteelliset tai vanhahtavat ilmaukset yleiskielisistä. Ja vaikkakin menisi vikaan, ei virhe ole suuri - usein murreilmaisu tai vanhahtava kieli on kuitenkin ymmärrettävää ja näitä vahingossa käyttävä luultavasti muutenkin selvästi ulkomaalainen, joten ne aiheuttavat vahinkoa vain harvoin, jos koskaan.

In my opinion, it makes complete sense. The good thing about a sentence, even if it has no translations, is that it provides context, and sometimes that's all a student needs in order to learn a new word or phrase.

Also, it's possible to translate sentences with wordplay in a way that makes it possible to understand the original meaning, even if some or all of the wordplay is not preserved in the translation.

On addition to Alan's message, I think you cannot be sure that a sentence really cannot be translated. It might be so in the languages you know but some language may have the same trick for the particular sentence.

Other than that, Tatoeba is not a translation platform. From the about page, for example, Tatoeba is a "big database of sentences AND translation", "a tool providing examples of how words are used in context".

So I believe the sentences you describe serve a very useful purpose if they have value in themselves. To be honest, I'd like everybody to remember that not everybody uses Tatoeba for second language study and stop being biased by this erroneous idea.

Erilaiset sanaleikit, idiomaattiset ilmaukset, vitsit ja muut erikoisuudet ovat juurikin hyvää sisältöä Tatoebaan. Niitä voi olla vaikea löytää muualta ja ne ovat osa kielen rikkautta, joka voi muuttua nopeasti tai olla hyvin aluekohtaista.

I saw this recent post:
https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/sh...#message_34175
and was reminded about this thread here.

First, I think every sentence can be translated. Not every sentence can be easily translated into every language, but everything is translatable in some way or another. Translation is not about re-creating with exact precision a sentence from a certain language into another language. It's about finding the closest match in the other language. There is always going to be a closest match.
Also, unless you can speak every language of the world, I don't think you can claim that there are sentences that cannot be translated. Maybe there will be a sentence that you cannot easily translate into the languages that you know, but who says that there isn't another language out there in which the sentence can be easily translated?

Second, translations are not the only information that we attach to sentences. You have comments and tags as well. Even if a sentence cannot be translated, there can still be valuable information someone can discover about the sentence if there is a comment or a tag. Sentences that are hard or almost impossible to translate probably carry very interesting features of a language. It would be shame to exclude them.

** List 7055 - English sentences translated into more than 9 languages **

Find English sentences translated into over 10 languages that are not yet translated into your native language.

You can do this with the following link.

Just change the last 3 letters in the URL to your native language's code.

This URL is set to find such sentences not yet translated into Ukranian.

https://tatoeba.org/sentences/s...d&trans_to=ukr
(Over 16,000 results)

This URL is set to find such sentences not yet translated into Esperanto.

https://tatoeba.org/sentences/s...d&trans_to=epo
(Over 12,000 results)

The over 49,500 sentences that I've added to this list are also on List 907, so you can be fairly confident that they are error-free and natural-sounding English sentences.

You can find existing sentences with this kind of search.

Search for sentences with these tags, limited to sentences linked to French.

hotel, travel, restaurant, border crossing, immigration

You will need to search for each tag individually since our search engine doesn't use the "or" operator for tags.

Here are a few examples.

https://tatoeba.org/sentences/s...fra&tags=hotel
https://tatoeba.org/sentences/s...ags=restaurant
https://tatoeba.org/sentences/s...ra&tags=travel
https://tatoeba.org/sentences/s...gs=immigration
https://tatoeba.org/sentences/s...order+crossing
https://tatoeba.org/sentences/s...&tags=shopping
https://tatoeba.org/sentences/s...o=fra&tags=bar
https://tatoeba.org/sentences/s...&tags=hospital
https://tatoeba.org/sentences/s...gs=immigration

Matkustustunnistetta on sovellettu kahteen ranskankieliseen lauseeseen: https://tatoeba.org/spa/Tags/sh...th_tag/151/fra . Muunkinkielisillä voi toki olla ranskankielisiä käännöksiä, joihin tunnisten soveltunee. Sieltä voi kerätä joitakin.