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Wall (5387 threads)

Ricardo14
2 days ago - 2 days ago
**Suggestion (Feature request?)**

I've some problems with that and I'd like to share with you.

From times to times I want to contact some people who speak, understand a specific language to translate a (some) sentence(s) I want into other languages. It can be for my self studies, for my students, for other projects I have...

On "Language of members" and "Native speakers" I can find people to help me but...

1st - Are they active on Tatoeba? When is this user's last log? If I go into their profile I'll get an answer but it's not that clear (it's for me because I've been around for quite a long time)

2nd - Are they willing to help me? Do they reply to messages often? Always? Never? If they are not around and also set up their settings to don't receive emails from Tatoeba, it'll be hard to contact them, don't you think?

OK, but don't we have the "My vocabulary" feature?
Yes and it's great! However some problems...
-people don't look at it very much (better saying: I don't see people looking at the requests.. Maybe because they don't have time? Interest? Or even they don't remember, know that there are requests over there?

Perhaps it'd be good to have a kind of "advanced search" which we could look for
- active members in x language who understand y language
- people that speak x and y language but that they've not been around
- people who set up/agreed to receive emails from Tatoeba - like PMs!

That's it. Thanks.
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Smoky
2 days ago
You can ask me if you need to translate something from English into Russian.
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Ricardo14
yesterday
Thank you so really much! :D
gillux
yesterday
Ricardo, I agree wholeheartedly with you.

I also think that Tatoeba sorely lacks ways to allow members sharing interest in the same language to reach out to one another. I remember in my last UX test, the first thing the user wanted to do is to find other German contributors. And she had such a hard time doing it. She even looked at the Wall and was disappointed to only see English messages.

I think it would be terribly awesome if we had separate spaces for each language. Members having interest in that language, be it natives or learners, could reach out to one another, follow what’s going on, exchange messages, actively *use* that language etc.

When I first joined Tatoeba, I remember I was happy to see other French active members, and happy to get Japanese messages from tommy_san about my translations. Looking back, it may have been a key point explaining why I’m still around now.
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soliloquist
yesterday
> I think it would be terribly awesome if we had separate spaces for each language. Members having interest in that language, be it natives or learners, could reach out to one another, follow what’s going on, exchange messages, actively *use* that language etc.

How about a forum like this one?

https://forum.wordreference.com

https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/sh...#message_31426
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CK
CK
22 hours ago - 22 hours ago
> How about a forum ...

Perhaps it's time for tatoeba.org to add a forum.
A forum could be used in addition to the Wall or perhaps instead of the Wall.
A forum could be used for what Ricardo14 is looking for.

Other advantages:
Most forums are searchable. The Wall isn't.
Forums could be sub-divided into categories. The Wall isn't.

There is apparently at least one CakePHP forum plugin available. Perhaps there are others.
https://github.com/CakeDC/cakephp-forum

Or, possibly use another open-source forum platform, after figuring out how to interface it using the same usernames and passwords. (However, our Wiki isn't interfaced with the main tatotoeba.org website yet.)


Related Issute on GitHub: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/367
Ricardo14
yesterday
Thanks for your reply, Gillux.

It has been suggested to me to look for answers in another websites but
1 - I really like and *trust* Tatoeba. Everyone here are willing to have an awesome corpus;
2 - By helping me (and other members) we'd be feeding Tatoeba
3 - I don't feel like going to other websites for now. I prefer Tatoeba.

> She even looked at the Wall and was disappointed to only see English messages.

How about "encouraging" members to post on 2+ languages or having a "machine translation" that we'd be corrected - if necessary - by a native speaker?

> I think it would be terribly awesome if we had separate spaces for each language. Members having interest in that language, be it natives or learners, could reach out to one another, follow what’s going on, exchange messages, actively *use* that language etc.

+ 1,000. + sentences on Tatoeba! More hands to help each other!
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Thanuir
3 hours ago
Useammalla kielellä kirjoittaminen lienee hyvä käytäntö. Mutta konekääntäminen suomesta ei toimi kovin hyvin. Toiminee paremmin suurempien kielten kanssa.

Å skrive på mange språk er fint, synes jeg. Men maskinoversettelse virker ikke så bra med finsk. Kanskje er det bedre med større språk.

sharptoothed
yesterday
** Stats & Graphs **

Tatoeba Stats, Graphs & Charts have been updated:
https://tatoeba.j-langtools.com/allstats/
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Guybrush88
yesterday
thanks
Smoky
yesterday
I dunno, looks like nonsense.
Smoky
yesterday
Is it OK to add here quotes by famous people of historical significance?
Like this one: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
By Benjamin Franklin.
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Objectivesea
yesterday
We have some historic sentences already. I think including them is fine, especially if tagged, as you suggest, with the author name. One suggestion: since modern English no longer capitalizes nouns mid-sentence, it would be best to lowercase these to conform with modern usage. (German will of course continue to follow its own rules.)
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Thanuir
yesterday
There is also the tag "archaic" and others starting with that word. Maybe they are useful.

(If the original is a written source, then keeping the original spelling is appropriate, if one claims it is a quote.)
jegaevi
5 days ago - 5 days ago
Hello everyone!

I've been using Tatoeba for a few months now and I have a few things in mind that I could really use.

It would be nice if I could exclude tags. Both in the language I'm translating from and translating to. Or exclude sentences with tags that I added.
I would like to be able to pick more than just one language in the 'Show translations in:' bar.

Or have an option to display all my profile languages.
And if I link a sentence to another one I don't want all the linked languages to appear, It often causes lagging or scrolls down to the end of the page. I don't need to see for example the Italian translations, since I don't speak it and I won't link it.

It would save so much time for me to be able to tag sentences without clicking them. I mean, maybe an 'OK' button could be added next to the 'Translate' button above the sentences.

That's it. These are just my personal preferences, I'm not implying that the site would be any better with them. It's maybe possible that some of these features already exist and I didn't notice them.
I've read the usability test that gillux posted a couple days ago and I would like to add that in my opinion the front page needs to be changed. Whenever I tell about Tatoeba to someone I always have to guide them, because they have no idea what the site is about. And even after I explain it, they won't use it because it's just too complicated for them.
I hope my post won't offend anyone, that's not my intention. I know that Tatoeba is nonprofit and I think it's amazing that this many people sacrifice their free time and devote it to Tatoeba.
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jegaevi
5 days ago - 5 days ago
> I would like to be able to pick more than just one language in the 'Show translations in:' bar.
Or have an option to display all my profile languages.
And if I link a sentence to another one I don't want all the linked languages to appear, It often
causes lagging or scrolls down to the end of the page. I don't need to see for example the Italian
translations, since I don't speak it and I won't link it.

I just found the way to do that so you may disregard this part.

EDIT
>It would save so much time for me to be able to tag sentences without clicking them. I mean,
maybe an 'OK' button could be added next to the 'Translate' button above the sentences.

I just found out that you can apparently 'rate' sentences. I wonder if it's the same this as adding OK, change or check tag.

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mraz
5 days ago
Kedves jegaevi!

Minden tudásomat összeszedtem, de így sem sikerült értelmeznem, amit írtál.

Üdvözlettel:

mraz
TRANG
5 days ago
> Whenever I tell about Tatoeba to someone I always have to guide them, because
> they have no idea what the site is about.

When you say no idea, how clueless are they exactly?

Is it that they don't understand the purpose of the project? They don't understand *why* we are collecting sentences and translations.

Or is it that they don't even understand that Tatoeba is about creating a dataset of sentences and translations?


> I just found out that you can apparently 'rate' sentences. I wonder if it's the same
> this as adding OK, change or check tag.

The rating feature and the OK/check/check tags feature definitely overlap in terms of purpose.

For the context, tags were implemented a longer time ago, in June 2010: https://blog.tatoeba.org/2010/0...2th-2010.html. That's 9 years ago. We used tags as a solution to our needs for a quality process, even though it was not the main role of tags. But it was better than nothing.

The ratings were implemented in 2015: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/pull/738, and were an attempt to provide a better alternative than the tags. Ultimately they could replace the tags, but the feature did not make it out of the "beta" phase (yet?) and ratings are currently not visible to everyone.

So tags have more visibility than ratings.
- Tags: everyone can see them on the sentence's page.
- Ratings: only registered members who have activated the feature can see them on the sentence's page.
But if you tag "OK" or rate "OK", both express the same thing.
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jegaevi
5 days ago
Thank you for replying.

>When you say no idea, how clueless are they exactly?
They understand that this is a collection of sentences. They want to learn English so I show them the search bar and how to search for English sentences with audio. I tell them that they can search for specific words, patterns or expressions. But they never stick around. I tried this with 3 people so far. All of them are really determined to learn their target language. Each one of them were really excited when I introduced them to the site. They said that it is amazing and they were very happy about the audio. But after a few days I asked them if they found it useful and they all said that it wasn't. It's too complicated. Or too random. Maybe I didn't explain it well enough, I don't know.
Thank you for the clarification about the tags and ratings.
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mraz
5 days ago - 3 days ago
@jegaevi,

.... They want to learn English.....

Ezt nem arra találták ki. >>>

You cannot learn a language just by using Tatoeba.
It doesn't provide any structure for learning.
CK
CK
4 days ago - 4 days ago
Perhaps you could introduce this "dashboard" of useful links to your friends.

http://study.aitech.ac.jp/tatoe...late/links.php

I know it's unlikely that it's exactly what they might want, but it might make it easier for them to easily understand some of the website's potential.
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jegaevi
4 days ago
Thank you CK!
Maybe this will help. I think I'm gonna show them your Listen and repeat videos. Maybe they get more use out of those.
TRANG
3 days ago
> But after a few days I asked them if they found it useful and they all said that it
> wasn't. It's too complicated. Or too random. Maybe I didn't explain it well enough,
> I don't know.

If you introduced Tatoeba to them as a language learning platform, then obviously they would be disappointed. Because that's not what Tatoeba is. You cannot learn a language just by using Tatoeba. It doesn't provide any structure for learning.

I wonder if you ever noticed the link "What is Tatoeba?" at the bottom of the page and if you tried to show them the video on that page.
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jegaevi
3 days ago
Well, I didn't say that it is a language learning platform to any of them. I think I said that it is a collection of example sentences and their translations. And they can look up words, expressions or structures. And I told them that maybe they should copy and paste sentences they found interesting in Anki. Or any other flashcard system. Or maybe write it down on paper or whatever.

>I wonder if you ever noticed the link "What is Tatoeba?"
Yes, actually I read the wiki (not the whole thing, just the parts I was interested in, but most of it) and watched the video, too.
They wouldn't understand the video since they don't speak English very well yet. But I'm gonna meet up with them in a few days and try to explain it again.
And just to add, even though I speak English (I mean my grammar and spelling is horrible) I found Tatoeba confusing at first. Without the members who messaged me I wouldn't even know how to use the Advanced search options. I figured out the rest on my own after I read the wiki, but not many people would go trough the whole wiki like I did.
I really don't want to be disrespectful towards anyone here, please don't take it this way. I just wanted to speak my mind.
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TRANG
3 days ago
> But I'm gonna meet up with them in a few days and try to explain it again.

If they understood it's not a language learning platform but they don't find it helpful for their particular case, then it's okay. They just have different needs. It's just like they needed a spoon, but we gave them a fork. Perhaps they'll need a fork in the future, but right now they need a spoon, that's all :)

At least they know Tatoeba exists, they know what it does. One day they may find themselves in a situation where they really need something like Tatoeba, and hopefully, they will remember about Tatoeba. Better yet, maybe one day they feel inspired to participate in Tatoeba, by creating new sentences, translating sentences or proofreading sentences.

> They wouldn't understand the video since they don't speak English very well yet.

The video has subtitles in Hungarian by the way. Maybe it helps.

> I really don't want to be disrespectful towards anyone here, please don't take it
> this way.

You don't have to worry about it. We appreciate every feedback.
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jegaevi
3 days ago
I didn't know about the subtitles, thanks for bringing it to my attention.
I hope they will find Tatoeba useful in the future. It helped me a lot in the last few months.
Thank you for being this nice and taking your time replying. I really appreciate it. :)
gillux
yesterday
First, I want you to know that such constructive feedback is very welcome here. Thank you for taking the time to write it.

> I would like to be able to pick more than just one language in the 'Show translations in:' bar.

Actually I’ve been thinking about that too. How about having "Profile languages" as one of the choices for 'Show translations in:' or 'To:'? We make it the default and use the expand/collapse sentence button as a way to show other languages.
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jegaevi
yesterday
Yes, that would be amazing. It would make things faster fur sure, at least for me.
CK
CK
yesterday - yesterday
Seeing the languages listed in your profile first, with the others hidden, but easily visible if wanted, is a great idea. I hope it's possible to do.
DostKaplan
2 days ago
"Search error

An error occurred while performing the search. If the problem persists, please let us know."
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samir_t
2 days ago
Yes, the problem persists.
hamzah
yesterday
Yes there is a problem
rumpelstilzchen
yesterday
Maybe I'm the culprit.

I've looked at https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/1895. After trying a few search variants I've got the error.
gillux
yesterday
The problem should be solved now. Sorry for the inconvenience!
CK
CK
2019-04-05 03:01
** Audio Milestone **

https://tatoeba.org/eng/audio/index
Sentences with audio (total 555,555)
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Seael
2019-04-20 17:19
Great!
:)
CK
CK
20 days ago
In the last 2 months we have added over 22,300 audio files.

https://tatoeba.org/eng/audio/index
Sentences with audio (total 577,944)

You can see which member's audio file lists have had changes recently with this search.
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...direction:desc
However, in some of the lists, editing has taken place and not additions of new audio files.
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CK
CK
yesterday - yesterday
We now have 588,888 audio files, up 10,944 since 18 days ago.

https://tatoeba.org/eng/audio/index

See a screenshot showing 588,888.

https://prnt.sc/o5ragn

If you, too, would like to contribute audio files in your own native language, see http://bit.ly/shtooka .

belkacem77
2 days ago
There is an erro when trying to make a search:
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...rom=eng&to=kab
Smoky
3 days ago - 3 days ago
Gosh, I already feel sick of these Tom-and-Mary sentences.
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Etvreurey
3 days ago - 3 days ago
#4076754 Tom and Mary moved to Boston.
#6698481 Sami and Layla moved to Egypt.

X and Y moved to Z.

+
#7541548 Tom and Mary moved to Boston last October.
#7542344 Tom and Mary moved to Boston last year.

W and X moved to Y last Z.

#7540819 Tom and Mary moved to Boston three years ago.





̶T̶a̶t̶o̶e̶b̶a̶
CK's page w/ Bible "translators" club
Thanuir
2 days ago
That's fine. Simply ignore them and add Russian sentences with different names.
CK
CK
2 days ago
* 10 English Words Per Day *

http://bit.ly/tatoebadaily

This is back online. It wasn't working properly on the other server, so I moved it.

The 10 words are roughly in the order of frequency of use, based on the NGSL, NAWL and TSL. I divided the words into 10 groups by level and included one word from each of those levels every day for 366 days.

You can click links to easily do the following searches on tatoeba.org.

* Show only sentences not yet translated into your native language.
** limited to those with audio - limited to List 907 - no limitations

* Show all sentences.
** limited to those with audio - limited to List 907 - no limitations

List 907 has over 700,000 English sentences that I have personally proofread.

If this is something you want to use every day, don't forget to bookmark the page.
cojiluc
20 days ago - 18 days ago
Currently when one uses the search function, one can sort the results by

relevance
fewest words first
last created first
last modified first
random

These different kinds of sorting are very useful.

I don't know if one can add an additional kind of sorting to the categories above, namely

sorting by the number of direct/indirect translations into different languages

Very often, the sentences that have the highest number of translations are either very interesting ones or the most easy ones or the most frequent ones.


Moreover, in absence of rating, I think, the mere ability to sort the search results by the number of different translations has many advantages. Because translating a sentence is from a viewpoint is rating that sentences. Because usually we prefer to translate the sentences that we found them good or interesting.



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TRANG
3 days ago
It's a good point. I definitely can see how the number of translations is tied to the popularity or quality of a sentence. But as always we would have to see if we can afford to spend effort on that.
CK
CK
2 days ago
> Very often, the sentences that have the highest number of translations are either very interesting ones or the most easy ones or the most frequent ones.

Also, sentences that have been in the database longer are more likely to have more translations.

@cojiluc

For English, you could go to this page, then jump to "Method 7" on the left side of the page.
http://study.aitech.ac.jp/tatoe...=pes&u=cojiluc

Find Sentences - Method 7 - Sentences Linked to Many Other Languages