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Wall (6,215 threads)

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Pfirsichbaeumchen

9 hours ago

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Shishir

17 hours ago

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Tepan

17 hours ago

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DJ_Saidez

23 hours ago

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espamatics

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DJ_Saidez

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2 days ago

Tepan Tepan 17 hours ago May 12, 2021 at 9:38:26 AM UTC link Permalink

Saluton!

Mi ŝatus forigi miajn markojn de ĉi tiuj forviŝitaj frazoj:

https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/4470815
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/7866406
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/6047099
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/9033356

Ĉu mi povas mem fari tion? Se ne, ĉu vi kun administratoraj rajtoj povas fari tion?

Antaŭdanke
Tepan

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Pfirsichbaeumchen Pfirsichbaeumchen 9 hours ago May 12, 2021 at 6:06:39 PM UTC link Permalink

@Yorwba Hast Du diesen Browserbefehl parat?

espamatics espamatics yesterday May 12, 2021 at 2:22:36 AM UTC link Permalink

What exactly can we talk about on the Wall? Are we allowed to just talk about languages and get answers from native speakers? If so, then...

English doesn't have any grammatical gender, but as a native English speaker myself, I can still say that I (and likely others I hope) do connect some nouns to a gender. For example, I still consider "butterfly" and "flower," or "la mariposa" and "la flor" in Spanish, as "feminine nouns," and "volcano" and "alligator," or "el volcán" and "el caimán," as "masculine nouns." But there are a few nouns I don't think fit the gender assigned to them in Spanish. For example, "color," "rainbow," "bikini," and "heart" are all masculine nouns in Spanish, and "lobster," "meat/beef/sausage," "beard," and "snake" are all feminine nouns in Spanish. For me, cows kind of look masculine, but the ones that give milk are female, so I guess I can see why it's feminine in Spanish. But with that logic, "mosquito" should also be considered feminine, since only the female ones bite. As for "el adjetivo" or "la oración," I really can't say much about either.
Anyway, my actual question is, are there any nouns that even native Spanish speakers think don't match their grammatical gender? Or does the gender always automatically give the speaker an idea of the noun?

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DJ_Saidez DJ_Saidez 23 hours ago, edited 23 hours ago May 12, 2021 at 3:47:30 AM UTC, edited May 12, 2021 at 3:52:42 AM UTC link Permalink

Even as someone who's spoken Spanish from birth and still speaks it now and so should've theoretically mastered it, I've mixed up my genders plenty of times
But then again I sometimes mess up pronouns and names in English with the people around me (calling my brother "she" and my mom "Dad") so maybe it's just that my head stuffing needs changing
Plus my language development was odd so I'm sorta English-dominant now

I can see what you mean about some words matching the stereotypes of masculine and feminine. Volcanos are strong and powerful, while butterflies are delicate and aesthetically pleasing. I personally don't think a lot like that since I'm not a huge fan of gender roles or stereotypes, and linguistically I've gotten used to the singular definite article "the" that fits every word. I mostly guess what gender each word is based on what it ends in, and obviously it doesn't work all the time (el día, el problema, la radio, la canción)

If everything would go my way in my Spanglish speaking world, I'd use "the" for everything and not worry about what gender each word is. I think that if some people adhere strongly to classifying each word to a gender, it's promoting a rigid system of everything being predefined to the standards of the past and the status quo, with not much wiggle room. Granted, that's a bit of a philosophical stretch, but that's how I see it.
Also, it's too much work for me to memorize the gender of each and every word.
So no, in my case at least, the gender doesn't consciously give me an idea of the noun, most of the time. Subconsciously it's still there sometimes, but that might tone down in a few years.

I do wonder what true Spanish-speaking natives would say about this.

As far as I know, the Wall is OK for discussion as long as it's productive and especially if it involves several people, if it turns into a longer, more personal convo between two users it might be better to switch it over to the DMs. But I'm a relatively newer user too.

Shishir Shishir 17 hours ago May 12, 2021 at 10:25:32 AM UTC link Permalink

In most cases I'm personally just used to using one article or the other and don't think about it. In others, however, it's true that I consider some things male or female due to this influence of the language (such as the sun or the moon). In the cases of animals we tend to use their biological gender to refer to them and as a cow will never be male (that would be a bull - el toro) it has the feminine gender, in the cases where the word refers to the animal without taking the gender into account such as el mosquito and la hormiga, there are el mosquito macho and el mosquito hembra, la hormiga macho and la hormiga hembra if you want to refer only to one particular biological gender, so seeing an ant doesn't make me think it should be masculine because I know there are both.

DJ_Saidez DJ_Saidez 2 days ago, edited 2 days ago May 10, 2021 at 8:41:51 PM UTC, edited May 10, 2021 at 8:44:32 PM UTC link Permalink

In the Spanish interface, some of the logs are missing the date.
En el interfaz de español, a algunos de los registros les faltan la fecha.

For example / Por ejemplo
#7942751 Mary fue atacada por un leopardo en Tanzania.

The English logs say / Los registros en inglés dicen:
added by Seael, May 28, 2019

But the Spanish logs just say / Pero los registros en español solo dicen:
añadida por Seael,

Without the date / Sin la fecha

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DJ_Saidez DJ_Saidez 2 days ago, edited 2 days ago May 10, 2021 at 9:22:04 PM UTC, edited May 10, 2021 at 9:22:12 PM UTC link Permalink

Same goes for the total number of sentences.
Lo mismo pasa con el número total de oraciones.

When I look at my sentences, the number of total sentences doesn't show.
Cuando veo mis oraciones, no se ve el número total de oraciones.
https://tatoeba.org/spa/sentenc...user/DJ_Saidez

gillux gillux yesterday May 11, 2021 at 12:08:26 PM UTC link Permalink

I looked into this problem. It happens because of a mistranslation of the Spanish UI. The date is translated here: https://www.transifex.com/tatoe...urce/186665868 (this link requires a Transifex account). The total number of sentences is here: https://www.transifex.com/tatoe...urce/163036559

You are welcome to improve the Spanish translation if you’d like. See the instructions here: https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...ce-translation

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DJ_Saidez DJ_Saidez yesterday May 11, 2021 at 5:57:48 PM UTC link Permalink

Thanks, I sent my application to join.

espamatics espamatics 2 days ago May 10, 2021 at 5:36:58 AM UTC link Permalink

I'm new here, and I'm wondering. What exactly is the point of Tatoeba, besides simply translating sentences, and how do people use it to learn new languages?

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CK CK 2 days ago May 10, 2021 at 7:07:13 AM UTC link Permalink

One use, perhaps the original intent, was to create a database that others can use to create learning materials or do other research.

Here is a quote from TRANG's blog.

2009-11-28:
Trang says: So the concept is : we gather a lot of data, try to organize it, ensure it is of good quality and make it freely accessible, downloadable and redistributable, so that anyone who has a great idea for a language learning application (or a language tool) can just focus on coding the application and rely on us to provide data of excellent quality.

You can see various ways that I've used the data from here.
http://www.manythings.org/corpus/tatoeba.html
I proofread all the English sentences that I use and only use non-English sentences that are owned by native speakers of those languages.

Cabo Cabo 2 days ago, edited 2 days ago May 10, 2021 at 7:11:00 AM UTC, edited May 10, 2021 at 8:05:30 AM UTC link Permalink

What is the meaning of life? Nobody knows. Just find one thing that you really like.

I can't tell you what exactly is the point of Tatoeba, and nobody can truly. CK agrees with the initial approach, Pfirsichbaeumchen has a different opinion, and not just them, each and every contributors have their own interest and goal what they want to achieve here. Tatoeba isn't that much regulated, so you can do many things.

You can translate, you can connect sentences (easier when you have an advanced contributor rank), you can add requested sentences (using requested words in sentences), you can tag sentences (you need to be an advanced contributor), you can check others' sentences...

The main goal here isn't learning a new language, instead contribute, but some websites use translations from the corpus, like https://www.clozemaster.com/ and some dictionaries.

Pfirsichbaeumchen Pfirsichbaeumchen 2 days ago May 10, 2021 at 7:17:25 AM UTC link Permalink

Welcome to Tatoeba! 🙂

I like to think of Tatoeba as a kind of phraseological dictionary. Normal dictionaries have far too few example sentences. Tatoeba fills that gap. Instead of keywords, it offers a large collection of example sentences or even short paragraphs for the learner to browse. Tatoeba offers natural sentences written by people who use those languages in their daily lives. Obviously that is very useful material for anyone who is learning those languages.

DJ_Saidez DJ_Saidez 2 days ago May 10, 2021 at 7:57:13 AM UTC link Permalink

Everyone has different motivations for doing something. It doesn’t mean the project itself has to align to just one of them, if it can serve the purpose of several.
It’d be hard for me to explain to my parents why I do this. I just want to do this. Not only is it helping myself with my language skills, but my contributions could potentially help someone else, however it may be. I also feel like as I discover my own identity, I’m gradually becoming a part of this international community here, as I anticipate you will too.

To the current members: Let’s not forget that, despite points where we may disagree, all of us here, in our own way, have contributed to something with lots of potential for uniting our broken world, something that has already united us. And I want to thank all of you for that, you guys are awesome, never forget that. 😸

gillux gillux yesterday May 11, 2021 at 12:12:42 PM UTC link Permalink

The video on that page, though dated, can also give you some answers: https://tatoeba.org/fra/about

GlossaMatik GlossaMatik yesterday, edited yesterday May 11, 2021 at 3:19:00 PM UTC, edited May 11, 2021 at 3:24:57 PM UTC link Permalink

Welcome! :D
Tatoeba is a database of language example sentences and translations, and of course there will be translations in your native language. I think you can learn a foreign language by comparing these sentences with your native language translation.And there are some sentences with audio, which will be helpful for foreign language learning!

GlossaMatik GlossaMatik 2 days ago May 10, 2021 at 5:04:23 PM UTC link Permalink

Awesome! Tatoeba has 403 languages now. Which two languages are newly added?

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Ricardo14 Ricardo14 2 days ago May 10, 2021 at 8:48:02 PM UTC link Permalink

Wayuu and Lezgi - https://github.com/Tatoeba/tato...e/257?closed=1

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GlossaMatik GlossaMatik 2 days ago May 11, 2021 at 3:22:13 AM UTC link Permalink

Thank you!:)

sharptoothed sharptoothed 2 days ago May 10, 2021 at 8:44:39 AM UTC link Permalink

** Stats & Graphs **

Tatoeba Stats, Graphs & Charts have been updated:
https://tatoeba.j-langtools.com/allstats/

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DJ_Saidez DJ_Saidez 2 days ago May 10, 2021 at 8:48:54 AM UTC link Permalink

ありがとう

Guybrush88 Guybrush88 2 days ago May 10, 2021 at 1:40:32 PM UTC link Permalink

thanks

small_snow small_snow 4 days ago, edited 4 days ago May 8, 2021 at 5:32:51 AM UTC, edited May 8, 2021 at 2:50:13 PM UTC link Permalink

Dear developers

Thank you very much for always providing a comfortable environment for Tatoeba.

By the way, I'd like to make a suggestion. I would be grateful if you would consider my suggestion. Thank you.

:::
Request for enhancement: About transcription list display

Currently, the list of main sentences is displayed on the transcription screen, but I want to see the transcriptions instead of the main sentences.

For instance:
The second line of the following page of sentences (Without first sentences).
https://tatoeba.org/jpn/sentenc...ser/small_snow
Also, as for the sorting order, I think it would be nice if newly added sentences appeared on top.

Reason: I want to double-check after I transcribe others' sentences.

Current situation: I'm adding them to a list I made to double-check them, but it takes a bit of time and effort.
:::

Thank you. ご検討の程、よろしくお願いします。

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gillux gillux 4 days ago May 8, 2021 at 2:09:38 PM UTC link Permalink

I think you will get what you want if you enable the option "Always show unreviewed transcriptions and alternative scripts" in your settings ("未レビューのトランスクリプションおよびフリガナを常に表示する").

Note that it is normally possible to edit transcriptions directly from the page you mentioned, but it’s not possible at the moment because of a bug. The bug should be fixed soon. In the meantime, you will have to go to the sentence page if you want to edit something.

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Pfirsichbaeumchen Pfirsichbaeumchen 4 days ago, edited 4 days ago May 8, 2021 at 2:51:25 PM UTC, edited May 8, 2021 at 2:55:15 PM UTC link Permalink

I think what she really wants is a page that lists all sentences with reviewed furigana (especially those owned by *other* people), starting with the sentence with the most recently reviewed furigana and so forth. There could be further options like displaying them all or restricting the selection to those sentences that she herself reviewed (without necessarily editing the sentences themselves). Does that make sense? :)

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small_snow small_snow 4 days ago May 8, 2021 at 3:06:46 PM UTC link Permalink

Thank you, both of you. I'm sorry for my poor English.
As Pfirsichbaeumchen says, I want to see the transcriptions on the following page.
https://tatoeba.org/jpn/transcr.../of/small_snow

※I've already enabled the option "Always show unreviewed transcriptions and alternative scripts" in my settings.

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gillux gillux 4 days ago May 8, 2021 at 3:59:35 PM UTC link Permalink

I see. If you are talking about the page https://tatoeba.org/jpn/transcr...of/small_snow, then I admit that there is a problem. This page used to display both transcriptions and sentences. Thank you for pointing this out, I’ll have a look at it.

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Pfirsichbaeumchen Pfirsichbaeumchen 4 days ago, edited 4 days ago May 8, 2021 at 4:44:32 PM UTC, edited May 8, 2021 at 4:56:07 PM UTC link Permalink

It's all greyed out for me. It would probably be useful if that page had edit options.

small_snow small_snow 4 days ago May 8, 2021 at 10:13:28 PM UTC link Permalink

Thank you.

gillux gillux 3 days ago May 9, 2021 at 8:15:27 PM UTC link Permalink

The transcription list should look better now. Thank you for reporting the problem.

I checked the code history and it appears that page was broken for more than two years. When I created that page 5-6 years ago, I didn’t really thought how useful it would be for corpus maintainers. I think you are the first one asking about it. If you have suggestions about how to make this page more useful, please let me know. :-)

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small_snow small_snow 3 days ago May 9, 2021 at 11:29:07 PM UTC link Permalink

日本語で失礼します。
突然のお願いにも関わらず、早々のご対応ありがとうございました。
早速、使ってみましたが快適です。また、何かあるようでしたら、お言葉に甘え声を掛けさせていただこうと思います。
この度は、本当にありがとうございました。

gillux gillux 3 days ago May 9, 2021 at 9:37:50 PM UTC link Permalink

I have been working on something to allow translations of the website for specific regions (interface translation; not sentences). For most languages, this is not necessary, but for example, when the website is displayed in "Chinese" (actually Mandarin), it is actually "Mandarin as used in mainland China" (with simplified characters), while there are other region-specific Mandarin such as Taiwan (using traditional characters). Similarly, we have a "Portuguese (Brazil)" translation but we cannot provide a version for Portuguese as it is used in Portugal. This feature is probably not so much needed when dialects are mutually intelligible, but it could make the website more friendly to people from other regions.

I installed this new feature on https://dev.tatoeba.org/ and somebody started working on a "Mandarin as used in Taiwan" translation.

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LanguageExpert LanguageExpert 3 days ago May 9, 2021 at 10:53:17 PM UTC link Permalink

Yes! That's a great idea!

quagliarella quagliarella 3 days ago May 9, 2021 at 7:43:03 PM UTC link Permalink

Hello, I've just had an error. The code was ''60983a67df34e''. I was searching for the word ''запас". The issue turned out to be consecutive and did not seem to be disappearing. Thank you

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gillux gillux 3 days ago, edited 3 days ago May 9, 2021 at 7:47:34 PM UTC, edited May 9, 2021 at 7:53:29 PM UTC link Permalink

This was a temporary error. Thank you for letting us know!

mamdohmohamed mamdohmohamed 3 days ago May 9, 2021 at 3:00:06 PM UTC link Permalink

Do you live here

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Ricardo14 Ricardo14 3 days ago May 9, 2021 at 7:19:34 PM UTC link Permalink

In case you want to post a sentence, you can do so here - https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/add. Thank you!