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Wall (5415 threads)

Smoky
22 days ago
Is it OK to add here quotes by famous people of historical significance?
Like this one: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
By Benjamin Franklin.
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Objectivesea
22 days ago
We have some historic sentences already. I think including them is fine, especially if tagged, as you suggest, with the author name. One suggestion: since modern English no longer capitalizes nouns mid-sentence, it would be best to lowercase these to conform with modern usage. (German will of course continue to follow its own rules.)
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Thanuir
22 days ago
There is also the tag "archaic" and others starting with that word. Maybe they are useful.

(If the original is a written source, then keeping the original spelling is appropriate, if one claims it is a quote.)
jegaevi
25 days ago - 25 days ago
Hello everyone!

I've been using Tatoeba for a few months now and I have a few things in mind that I could really use.

It would be nice if I could exclude tags. Both in the language I'm translating from and translating to. Or exclude sentences with tags that I added.
I would like to be able to pick more than just one language in the 'Show translations in:' bar.

Or have an option to display all my profile languages.
And if I link a sentence to another one I don't want all the linked languages to appear, It often causes lagging or scrolls down to the end of the page. I don't need to see for example the Italian translations, since I don't speak it and I won't link it.

It would save so much time for me to be able to tag sentences without clicking them. I mean, maybe an 'OK' button could be added next to the 'Translate' button above the sentences.

That's it. These are just my personal preferences, I'm not implying that the site would be any better with them. It's maybe possible that some of these features already exist and I didn't notice them.
I've read the usability test that gillux posted a couple days ago and I would like to add that in my opinion the front page needs to be changed. Whenever I tell about Tatoeba to someone I always have to guide them, because they have no idea what the site is about. And even after I explain it, they won't use it because it's just too complicated for them.
I hope my post won't offend anyone, that's not my intention. I know that Tatoeba is nonprofit and I think it's amazing that this many people sacrifice their free time and devote it to Tatoeba.
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jegaevi
25 days ago - 25 days ago
> I would like to be able to pick more than just one language in the 'Show translations in:' bar.
Or have an option to display all my profile languages.
And if I link a sentence to another one I don't want all the linked languages to appear, It often
causes lagging or scrolls down to the end of the page. I don't need to see for example the Italian
translations, since I don't speak it and I won't link it.

I just found the way to do that so you may disregard this part.

EDIT
>It would save so much time for me to be able to tag sentences without clicking them. I mean,
maybe an 'OK' button could be added next to the 'Translate' button above the sentences.

I just found out that you can apparently 'rate' sentences. I wonder if it's the same this as adding OK, change or check tag.

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mraz
25 days ago
Kedves jegaevi!

Minden tudásomat összeszedtem, de így sem sikerült értelmeznem, amit írtál.

Üdvözlettel:

mraz
TRANG
25 days ago
> Whenever I tell about Tatoeba to someone I always have to guide them, because
> they have no idea what the site is about.

When you say no idea, how clueless are they exactly?

Is it that they don't understand the purpose of the project? They don't understand *why* we are collecting sentences and translations.

Or is it that they don't even understand that Tatoeba is about creating a dataset of sentences and translations?


> I just found out that you can apparently 'rate' sentences. I wonder if it's the same
> this as adding OK, change or check tag.

The rating feature and the OK/check/check tags feature definitely overlap in terms of purpose.

For the context, tags were implemented a longer time ago, in June 2010: https://blog.tatoeba.org/2010/0...2th-2010.html. That's 9 years ago. We used tags as a solution to our needs for a quality process, even though it was not the main role of tags. But it was better than nothing.

The ratings were implemented in 2015: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/pull/738, and were an attempt to provide a better alternative than the tags. Ultimately they could replace the tags, but the feature did not make it out of the "beta" phase (yet?) and ratings are currently not visible to everyone.

So tags have more visibility than ratings.
- Tags: everyone can see them on the sentence's page.
- Ratings: only registered members who have activated the feature can see them on the sentence's page.
But if you tag "OK" or rate "OK", both express the same thing.
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jegaevi
25 days ago
Thank you for replying.

>When you say no idea, how clueless are they exactly?
They understand that this is a collection of sentences. They want to learn English so I show them the search bar and how to search for English sentences with audio. I tell them that they can search for specific words, patterns or expressions. But they never stick around. I tried this with 3 people so far. All of them are really determined to learn their target language. Each one of them were really excited when I introduced them to the site. They said that it is amazing and they were very happy about the audio. But after a few days I asked them if they found it useful and they all said that it wasn't. It's too complicated. Or too random. Maybe I didn't explain it well enough, I don't know.
Thank you for the clarification about the tags and ratings.
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mraz
25 days ago - 24 days ago
@jegaevi,

.... They want to learn English.....

Ezt nem arra találták ki. >>>

You cannot learn a language just by using Tatoeba.
It doesn't provide any structure for learning.
CK
CK
25 days ago - 25 days ago
Perhaps you could introduce this "dashboard" of useful links to your friends.

http://study.aitech.ac.jp/tatoe...late/links.php

I know it's unlikely that it's exactly what they might want, but it might make it easier for them to easily understand some of the website's potential.
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jegaevi
25 days ago
Thank you CK!
Maybe this will help. I think I'm gonna show them your Listen and repeat videos. Maybe they get more use out of those.
TRANG
24 days ago
> But after a few days I asked them if they found it useful and they all said that it
> wasn't. It's too complicated. Or too random. Maybe I didn't explain it well enough,
> I don't know.

If you introduced Tatoeba to them as a language learning platform, then obviously they would be disappointed. Because that's not what Tatoeba is. You cannot learn a language just by using Tatoeba. It doesn't provide any structure for learning.

I wonder if you ever noticed the link "What is Tatoeba?" at the bottom of the page and if you tried to show them the video on that page.
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jegaevi
24 days ago
Well, I didn't say that it is a language learning platform to any of them. I think I said that it is a collection of example sentences and their translations. And they can look up words, expressions or structures. And I told them that maybe they should copy and paste sentences they found interesting in Anki. Or any other flashcard system. Or maybe write it down on paper or whatever.

>I wonder if you ever noticed the link "What is Tatoeba?"
Yes, actually I read the wiki (not the whole thing, just the parts I was interested in, but most of it) and watched the video, too.
They wouldn't understand the video since they don't speak English very well yet. But I'm gonna meet up with them in a few days and try to explain it again.
And just to add, even though I speak English (I mean my grammar and spelling is horrible) I found Tatoeba confusing at first. Without the members who messaged me I wouldn't even know how to use the Advanced search options. I figured out the rest on my own after I read the wiki, but not many people would go trough the whole wiki like I did.
I really don't want to be disrespectful towards anyone here, please don't take it this way. I just wanted to speak my mind.
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TRANG
24 days ago
> But I'm gonna meet up with them in a few days and try to explain it again.

If they understood it's not a language learning platform but they don't find it helpful for their particular case, then it's okay. They just have different needs. It's just like they needed a spoon, but we gave them a fork. Perhaps they'll need a fork in the future, but right now they need a spoon, that's all :)

At least they know Tatoeba exists, they know what it does. One day they may find themselves in a situation where they really need something like Tatoeba, and hopefully, they will remember about Tatoeba. Better yet, maybe one day they feel inspired to participate in Tatoeba, by creating new sentences, translating sentences or proofreading sentences.

> They wouldn't understand the video since they don't speak English very well yet.

The video has subtitles in Hungarian by the way. Maybe it helps.

> I really don't want to be disrespectful towards anyone here, please don't take it
> this way.

You don't have to worry about it. We appreciate every feedback.
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jegaevi
23 days ago
I didn't know about the subtitles, thanks for bringing it to my attention.
I hope they will find Tatoeba useful in the future. It helped me a lot in the last few months.
Thank you for being this nice and taking your time replying. I really appreciate it. :)
gillux
22 days ago
First, I want you to know that such constructive feedback is very welcome here. Thank you for taking the time to write it.

> I would like to be able to pick more than just one language in the 'Show translations in:' bar.

Actually I’ve been thinking about that too. How about having "Profile languages" as one of the choices for 'Show translations in:' or 'To:'? We make it the default and use the expand/collapse sentence button as a way to show other languages.
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jegaevi
22 days ago
Yes, that would be amazing. It would make things faster fur sure, at least for me.
CK
CK
22 days ago - 22 days ago
Seeing the languages listed in your profile first, with the others hidden, but easily visible if wanted, is a great idea. I hope it's possible to do.
DostKaplan
22 days ago
"Search error

An error occurred while performing the search. If the problem persists, please let us know."
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samir_t
22 days ago
Yes, the problem persists.
hamzah
22 days ago
Yes there is a problem
rumpelstilzchen
22 days ago
Maybe I'm the culprit.

I've looked at https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/1895. After trying a few search variants I've got the error.
gillux
22 days ago
The problem should be solved now. Sorry for the inconvenience!
CK
CK
2019-04-05 03:01
** Audio Milestone **

https://tatoeba.org/eng/audio/index
Sentences with audio (total 555,555)
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Seael
2019-04-20 17:19
Great!
:)
CK
CK
2019-06-05 02:22
In the last 2 months we have added over 22,300 audio files.

https://tatoeba.org/eng/audio/index
Sentences with audio (total 577,944)

You can see which member's audio file lists have had changes recently with this search.
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...direction:desc
However, in some of the lists, editing has taken place and not additions of new audio files.
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CK
CK
22 days ago - 22 days ago
We now have 588,888 audio files, up 10,944 since 18 days ago.

https://tatoeba.org/eng/audio/index

See a screenshot showing 588,888.

https://prnt.sc/o5ragn

If you, too, would like to contribute audio files in your own native language, see http://bit.ly/shtooka .

belkacem77
22 days ago
There is an erro when trying to make a search:
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...rom=eng&to=kab
Smoky
24 days ago - 24 days ago
Gosh, I already feel sick of these Tom-and-Mary sentences.
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Etvreurey
24 days ago - 24 days ago
#4076754 Tom and Mary moved to Boston.
#6698481 Sami and Layla moved to Egypt.

X and Y moved to Z.

+
#7541548 Tom and Mary moved to Boston last October.
#7542344 Tom and Mary moved to Boston last year.

W and X moved to Y last Z.

#7540819 Tom and Mary moved to Boston three years ago.





̶T̶a̶t̶o̶e̶b̶a̶
CK's page w/ Bible "translators" club
Thanuir
22 days ago
That's fine. Simply ignore them and add Russian sentences with different names.
CK
CK
23 days ago
* 10 English Words Per Day *

http://bit.ly/tatoebadaily

This is back online. It wasn't working properly on the other server, so I moved it.

The 10 words are roughly in the order of frequency of use, based on the NGSL, NAWL and TSL. I divided the words into 10 groups by level and included one word from each of those levels every day for 366 days.

You can click links to easily do the following searches on tatoeba.org.

* Show only sentences not yet translated into your native language.
** limited to those with audio - limited to List 907 - no limitations

* Show all sentences.
** limited to those with audio - limited to List 907 - no limitations

List 907 has over 700,000 English sentences that I have personally proofread.

If this is something you want to use every day, don't forget to bookmark the page.
cojiluc
2019-06-05 12:48 - 2019-06-07 11:56
Currently when one uses the search function, one can sort the results by

relevance
fewest words first
last created first
last modified first
random

These different kinds of sorting are very useful.

I don't know if one can add an additional kind of sorting to the categories above, namely

sorting by the number of direct/indirect translations into different languages

Very often, the sentences that have the highest number of translations are either very interesting ones or the most easy ones or the most frequent ones.


Moreover, in absence of rating, I think, the mere ability to sort the search results by the number of different translations has many advantages. Because translating a sentence is from a viewpoint is rating that sentences. Because usually we prefer to translate the sentences that we found them good or interesting.



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TRANG
23 days ago
It's a good point. I definitely can see how the number of translations is tied to the popularity or quality of a sentence. But as always we would have to see if we can afford to spend effort on that.
CK
CK
23 days ago
> Very often, the sentences that have the highest number of translations are either very interesting ones or the most easy ones or the most frequent ones.

Also, sentences that have been in the database longer are more likely to have more translations.

@cojiluc

For English, you could go to this page, then jump to "Method 7" on the left side of the page.
http://study.aitech.ac.jp/tatoe...=pes&u=cojiluc

Find Sentences - Method 7 - Sentences Linked to Many Other Languages



CK
CK
24 days ago
Would you like to see sentences in languages with identified native speakers that have links to English sentences with audio?

http://tatoeba.byethost3.com/st...-speakers.html

That what I wanted, so I created this page.

I also included 9 constructed languages and 1 dead language at the bottom of the page.
CK
CK
24 days ago
** Stats - 2019-06-22 - Native Speaker Sentence Counts**

http://tatoeba.byethost3.com//stats-190622.html

The following has also been updated with the same sentence counts.

http://tatoeba.byethost3.com/nativespeakers/

Learn the usernames of the native speakers of the language that you are studying.
Get links for studying and translating their sentences.
This page will also show you the usernames of members with your native language.