clear
{{language.name}} No language found.
swap_horiz
{{language.name}} No language found.
search

Wall (5,665 threads)

Tips

Before asking a question, make sure to read the FAQ.

We aim to maintain a healthy atmosphere for civilized discussions. Please read our rules against bad behavior.

Latest messages subdirectory_arrow_right

TRANG

an hour ago

subdirectory_arrow_right

Aiji

6 hours ago

subdirectory_arrow_right

Pfirsichbaeumchen

17 hours ago

subdirectory_arrow_right

Luiaard

17 hours ago

subdirectory_arrow_right

AlanF_US

20 hours ago

subdirectory_arrow_right

rumpelstilzchen

21 hours ago

subdirectory_arrow_right

Thanuir

21 hours ago

subdirectory_arrow_right

AlanF_US

22 hours ago

subdirectory_arrow_right

AlanF_US

yesterday

feedback

Luiaard

yesterday

maaster maaster December 16, 2019 at 3:41 PM December 16, 2019 at 3:41 PM link permalink

MINT HOGY - MINTHOGY

Csekkolja mindenki a mondatait, mivel elég sok a rossz. Jó lenne korpusz felelős beavatkozás is, na igen, mert a mondatok írói közt vannak inaktív tagok is.
Mindegyik "minthogy" külön írandó, azaz: mint hogy.
( Minthogy=mivel(hogy) <-> inkább, mint hogy... )

{{vm.hiddenReplies[33748] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
bandeirante bandeirante 25 days ago January 3, 2020 at 11:05 AM link permalink

Köszönöm, elkezdtem nézni, tényleg van egy pár ilyen.

OsoHombre OsoHombre 25 days ago January 3, 2020 at 7:04 AM link permalink

عام سعيد للجميع - Happy New Year to everyone

I am pleased to share with you this Doodle because it is related to the Arabic language:

Today’s Doodle celebrates Egyptian pioneer of Arabic language computing, Dr. Nabil Ali, on his 82nd birthday. Dr. Nabil Ali’s innovations in the field of computational linguistics propelled the Arab world into the Information Age by creating programs that enabled computers to understand Arabic in digital form.

https://www.google.com/doodles/...-82nd-birthday

{{vm.hiddenReplies[33879] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
sabretou sabretou 25 days ago January 3, 2020 at 7:49 AM link permalink

I read about him on the Doodle page, and his work is so inspiring!

Ergulis Ergulis 27 days ago December 31, 2019 at 11:17 PM link permalink

HAPPY NEW YEAR 2020!

{{vm.hiddenReplies[33832] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
sabretou sabretou 27 days ago January 1, 2020 at 3:07 AM link permalink

Happy New Year! I hope this is a great decade for us all!

Ricardo14 Ricardo14 26 days ago January 1, 2020 at 1:43 PM link permalink

Happy New Year!!!!!

Pfirsichbaeumchen Pfirsichbaeumchen 26 days ago, edited 26 days ago January 1, 2020 at 2:23 PM, edited January 1, 2020 at 2:24 PM link permalink

Estu la nova jaro 2020 feliĉa! Möge das neue Jahr 2020 ein glückliches sein!

{{vm.hiddenReplies[33848] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
mraz mraz 25 days ago, edited 25 days ago January 2, 2020 at 6:12 PM, edited January 2, 2020 at 6:13 PM link permalink

BOLDOG ÚJ ÉVET TATOEBA!
SOK SZERENCSÉT KÍVÁNOK
2020-BAN!
MRAZ

Hybrid Hybrid 25 days ago January 3, 2020 at 12:05 AM link permalink

Happy New Year everyone!

deniko deniko 26 days ago January 2, 2020 at 12:01 PM link permalink

I would like to describe something which is not really an issue per se, just an annoying feature, but I still wonder whether anything could be done about that.

When you go to the page "Translate user's sentences", for example:

https://tatoeba.org/eng/activit...nces_of/Hybrid

You almost immediately see some sentences, and also "filter by language" block on the right:

https://i.imgur.com/kVizvNF.png

In 2 or 3 seconds after that the whole user related block appears on the right, the "Filter by language" drop box is now at the bottom of this block.

https://i.imgur.com/YF7KVJV.png

When you're on your computer, it's not a big deal - if you click on the language selector before the whle panel appears it's still fine, you carry on with the language selection.

But it's quite annoying when you're on mobile. You tap on "Filter by language", nothing happens because the page is still loading (although nothing indicates it's still loading), and your tap is acknowledged only after the whole block has appeared. So you navigate to the Sentences or Profile page.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[33862] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
rumpelstilzchen rumpelstilzchen 25 days ago January 2, 2020 at 7:21 PM link permalink

There is already an issue for this: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/2023

Seems to be a popular demand. I'll move it to the top of my to-do list. :-)

{{vm.hiddenReplies[33864] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
deniko deniko 25 days ago January 2, 2020 at 7:24 PM link permalink

It looks like it's not the same issue. I personally don't care much whether it's collapsible or not, my problem is that the language selector appears on the screen before the rest of the menu, and because of that I click a link I don't want to click instead of selecting na language.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[33865] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
rumpelstilzchen rumpelstilzchen 25 days ago January 2, 2020 at 8:00 PM link permalink

I see. I'll look into it.

AmarMecheri AmarMecheri 26 days ago, edited 26 days ago January 1, 2020 at 11:35 PM, edited January 1, 2020 at 11:39 PM link permalink

Dear friends
For those who ask me via commentaries to correct or change anything, please be patient.
¶¶ Given my fairly serious state of health (Cf. My Post before the holidays on the wall),
¶¶ I ask @belkacem77 and @amazigh Bedar to designate one of our friend (s) from the Kabyle team who would answer for me (in my place, as he/she wants).
Please allow me a response time and do not penalize me if the requested corrections are not made in due time.
Happy New Year!

Chers amis
Pour ceux qui me demandent via des commentaires de corriger ou changer quoi que ce soit, soyez patient.
¶¶ Compte tenu de mon état de santé assez grave (Cf. My Post avant les vacances sur le mur),
¶¶Je demande à @ belkacem77 et à @amazigh Bedar de désigner un de nos amis de l'équipe kabyle qui répondrait pour moi (à ma place, comme il le souhaite).
Veuillez m'accorder un délai de réponse et ne me pénalise pas si les corrections demandées ne sont pas apportées en temps voulu.
Bonne année !

dcsan dcsan 26 days ago January 1, 2020 at 5:02 PM link permalink

are there any good lists for learning mandarin Chinese?

ZiriSut ZiriSut 27 days ago January 1, 2020 at 10:27 AM link permalink

I wish you all a happy New Year and the best things for 2020.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[33842] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
K_hina K_hina 27 days ago January 1, 2020 at 11:54 AM link permalink

Tanemmirt a ZiriSut. Aseggas ameggaz i kemm akked twacult-im.
Thank you ZiriSut. Happy New Year to you and your family, best wishes.

Thanuir Thanuir 27 days ago December 31, 2019 at 5:23 PM link permalink

Onko olemassa käytännöllistä tapaa selvittää, ketkä ovat viimeksi kääntäneet tietynkielisiä lauseita? Kohdekielellä ei ole niinkään väliä.

Tällä hetkellä minua kiinnostavat eniten suomi ja norjankielet, mutta yleinenkin kysymys ansainnee vastauksen.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[33827] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
AlanF_US AlanF_US 27 days ago December 31, 2019 at 8:31 PM link permalink

Translation from Google Translate:

:::
Is there a practical way to find out who has translated the sentences in the last language? The target language doesn't matter so much.

At the moment I am most interested in Finnish and Norwegian, but even a general question deserves an answer.
:::

Are you familiar with the log that appears on the right-hand side of each sentence's page? It displays information about who wrote, translated, and edited the sentence, and when. Or are you asking for something different?

{{vm.hiddenReplies[33830] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
Thanuir Thanuir 27 days ago January 1, 2020 at 8:36 AM link permalink

Kaikki kielet ovat täällä samanarvoisia, joten kai minäkin sitten käytän Google-kääntäjää:

:::
Tunnetko lokin, joka näkyy jokaisen lauseen sivun oikealla puolella? Se näyttää tietoja siitä, kuka kirjoitti, käänsi ja editoi lauseen ja milloin. Vai pyydätkö jotain erilaista?
:::

Lauseen muokkaus- ja linkitystiedot ovat hyödyllisiä vain, jos tietää jonkin lauseen, joka on lähiaikoina käännetty toiselle kielelle. Siinäkin tapauksessa pitäisi vielä katsoa, että onko lause linkitetty jo aiemmin olemassaolevaan lauseeseen, vai onko se käännetty kirjoittamalla kokonaan uusi lause. Tämän voinee päätellä lauseen kirjoittamisen ja linkityksen ajankohdista.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[33836] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
CK CK 27 days ago January 1, 2020 at 8:58 AM link permalink

Is what you want something similar to the "recent contributions" on the main home page, but only listing actual translations, and not raw new sentences?

{{vm.hiddenReplies[33837] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
Thanuir Thanuir 27 days ago January 1, 2020 at 9:40 AM link permalink

Kyllä, ja nimenomaan käännöksiä tietynkielisistä lauseista.

CK CK 27 days ago January 1, 2020 at 9:03 AM link permalink

Does something like this accomplish what you're looking for?

An advanced search showing the newest Swedish sentences that are linked to Finnish.

https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...=&sort=created

This would likely show Finnish sentences that have recently been translated into Swedish. Perhaps, though, not limited to such sentences.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[33838] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
Thanuir Thanuir 27 days ago January 1, 2020 at 9:49 AM link permalink

Kiitos.

Tämä toimii ruotsille, koska kukaan ei näytä suomentaneen ruotsinkielisiä lauseita viime aikoina, tai ainakaan kukaan ei näytä suomentaneen uusia lauseita.

Esimerkiksi englannin suhteen sama menetelmä ei toimi lainkaan, koska englanninkielisiä lauseita suomennetaan, mutta ei toisin päin (tai ei ainakaan usein, tietääkseni).

bandeirante bandeirante December 27, 2019 at 12:09 PM December 27, 2019 at 12:09 PM link permalink

Has it occurred to anyone to create a translation memory with Tatoeba sentences? I believe a very good translation memory could be made, and using the memory, even a translation engine would be possible.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[33795] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
Thanuir Thanuir December 27, 2019 at 5:20 PM December 27, 2019 at 5:20 PM link permalink

Tarkoitatko konekääntämistä? "translation memory" ei ole minulle tuttu käsite.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[33797] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
AlanF_US AlanF_US December 27, 2019 at 11:17 PM December 27, 2019 at 11:17 PM link permalink

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation_memory

bandeirante bandeirante December 28, 2019 at 9:49 AM December 28, 2019 at 9:49 AM link permalink

A translation memory is basically a database containing pairs of language units (called segments). It is used to make translations using software applications like Trados, MemoQ, Across, Transit, etc.

Aiji Aiji December 28, 2019 at 1:05 AM December 28, 2019 at 1:05 AM link permalink

Considering how much we can argue of the usefulness of TMS outside of technical translation (a domain where, ironically, machine translation may perform as well), that translating is supposed to convey the message more than its linguistic components, and that TMS are used as an excuse by some companies to underpay freelance translators, no, it certainly did not occurred to me to develop such a tool :)

Of course, that's my personal opinion and if I were paid to develop one I probably would because it's quite interesting to manipulate such data.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[33800] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
bandeirante bandeirante December 28, 2019 at 9:52 AM December 28, 2019 at 9:52 AM link permalink

We should make a distinction between machine translation and using a translation memory (although the dividing line between the two starts getting blurred somewhat. With a TM nothing gets translated by itself (except 100% hits), but you still get a lot of help and you can also do concordance searches for expressions, parts of a sentence, etc. Anyway, there are already applications, or at least I know of 1 application where you can build your own translation engine using a high quality TM.

CK CK December 28, 2019 at 1:32 AM December 28, 2019 at 1:32 AM link permalink

> I believe a very good translation memory could be made ...

Trang's idea for this project was that we would have "data of excellent quality" that people could use to develop other things.


So the concept is : we gather a lot of data, try to organize it, ensure it is of good quality and make it freely accessible, downloadable and redistributable, so that anyone who has a great idea for a language learning application (or a language tool) can just focus on coding the application and rely on us to provide data of excellent quality.

Trang (2009-11-28)


One reason we encourage people to contribute in their native languages is so that we can get closer to providing data of excellent quality. While we may never get to an error-free corpus, I think it's a worthy goal to have.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[33801] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
bandeirante bandeirante December 28, 2019 at 9:53 AM December 28, 2019 at 9:53 AM link permalink

Thanks, CK, I am planning to buy software that can create a translation engine, so maybe, I'll try Tatoeba, just for the heck of it.

AlanF_US AlanF_US 30 days ago, edited 30 days ago December 28, 2019 at 3:41 PM, edited December 28, 2019 at 3:42 PM link permalink

> One reason we encourage people to contribute in their native languages is so that we can get closer to providing data of excellent quality.

I agree that people should contribute in their native languages. However, I do not think that EVERYONE should ONLY contribute in their native language. Nor do I think that if they did, we'd achieve the highest level of quality.

People should contribute in whichever languages they know very well, which in most cases will include their native language. However, that does not guarantee data of excellent quality. Native speakers make the fewest outright errors (though, as you know, they're not perfect). But a lack of errors is not the only measurement of quality. If our English corpus consisted of a million error-free sentences of the pattern "Tom gave Mary X Y for Z", it would be greatly inferior to a more diverse set of sentences, even if 1% of them contained errors. It's far easier to correct errors than to introduce diversity. The more I look at English sentences contributed by proficient non-native speakers, the more I come to the conclusion that Tatoeba would be much poorer without them. Not only do they constitute something between a fifth and a third of our English sentences, but they bring different perspectives that cannot come from a small handful of people (especially when some of those contributors use automatic scripts to generate their sentences).

It's true that some non-native speakers can write sentences that are not fully natural but are difficult to correct. But that can be avoided by efforts on the part of both the authors (who need to develop an accurate assessment of their own abilities in a language) and the correctors/commenters (who should provide specific critiques that allow the authors to improve both their abilities and their self-assessment).

> While we may never get to an error-free corpus, I think it's a worthy goal to have.

No, we will never get to an error-free corpus. But if people are serious about trying to eliminate errors, they should correct them, and address the authors as collaborators, rather than as obstacles who are interfering with a vision in which people only contribute in the languages they started learning by the age of three.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[33805] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
maaster maaster 30 days ago December 29, 2019 at 6:44 AM link permalink

The problem is that my English is far from perfect and it won't be that using Tatoeba. I learn more reading or translating English sentences written by non natives yet.
However, native English speakers could add better English sentences than non natives, they don't do so. And I don't know why.
So, I think it's still about the simplicity of English sentences written by English natives.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[33806] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
AlanF_US AlanF_US 29 days ago December 29, 2019 at 3:35 PM link permalink

So you're saying that you would prefer to see more complex sentences written by native English speakers? Are you talking about complexity in terms of grammar, or vocabulary, or both? Also, is diversity important to you? Can you find examples of sentences that would demonstrate what you're looking for?

{{vm.hiddenReplies[33808] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
Pandaa Pandaa 29 days ago December 29, 2019 at 4:24 PM link permalink

Tudom, hogy nem nekem szól a kérdés, viszont ehhez kapcsolódóan szólnék.

Szavak terén azt látom, hogy jó a helyzet az angolnál, és tán az eloszlás is jó, hisz egy sokkalta ritkább szót sokkalta kevesebb helyzetben lehet használni, így ha valami csak egyszer fordul elő, az nem meglepő.
Hibája viszont annyi a ritkább szavakat tartalmazó mondatoknak, hogy sokat nem is anyanyelvi beszélők írnak meg és nincsenek leellenőrizve.

Nyelvtani téren esetleg jó lenne egy kis fejlődés. Bár a rendkívül egyszerű kijelentéseket tartalmazó mondatok fordításai után bizonyára hibáznának is a fordítók bőven. (Plusz még benne van a pakliban, hogy nem sok fordítás készül hozzájuk, csak mert van százezer könnyebb.)

maaster biztosan örülne nekik, szereti a kihívást jelentő mondatokat.

Aminek én mindenképp örülnék: valós helyzetek és párbeszédek.
Kevés a párbeszéd, túl sok az egyszerű kijelentés.
Párbeszédek kellenének, amik elhangozhatnak a pénztárnál, a kertben, az osztályteremben, a munkahelyen, a reptéren, a sarki fűszeresnél, a buszon, egy sugdolózáskor, egy csapatmegbeszélésen, egy bűnügyi helyszínelésnél...

maaster maaster 29 days ago, edited 29 days ago December 30, 2019 at 6:59 AM, edited December 30, 2019 at 7:16 AM link permalink

I can just repeat myself.
I think a correct subject-predicate-object sentence can everyone add, even non natives. Sentences with adverbs, qualificatives etc. are a bit more complicated.
And I miss "living" sentences from different situations of real life (an accident, insurance, operation, a carpenter's job...) and the terminology of them.

I can see less and less from contributors translate from English, they just add their own sentences even if those won't be translated or they don't contribute any longer. I wonder whether it is a good direction for Tatoeba.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[33812] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
Thanuir Thanuir 27 days ago December 31, 2019 at 2:00 PM link permalink

Olet varmaan lisännyt sellaisia lauseita jo unkariksi?

Tatoeba on sinänsä hankala, että jos haluaa tietynlaisia lauseita tietylle kielelle, voi pyytää näihin liittyvää sanastoa ja toivoa että kirjoitettavat lauseet ovat jännittäviä, tai voi lisätä vastaavia lauseita omalle kielelleen ja toivoa, että joku joskus kääntää ne.

Ensimmäinen menetelmä ei oikein toimi monimutkaisten lauseiden pyytämiseen. Jälkimmäinen toimii, mutta hyvin hitaasti ja epäsuorasti; itse ajattelen, että kirjoittamani lauseet ehkä joskus auttavat jälkipolvia opettelemaan suomea, en että niistä juuri minulle olisi hyötyä tai että joku niitä tulisi kääntämään lähivuosikymmeninä.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[33820] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
Pandaa Pandaa 27 days ago December 31, 2019 at 2:41 PM link permalink

Évtizedeket várni fordításra... izgalmas.
Bár annyiban már igaz, hogy több a semminél.

AlanF_US AlanF_US 27 days ago December 31, 2019 at 3:22 PM link permalink

Translation of Thanuir's message via Google Translate:

:::
You must have already added such phrases in Hungarian?

Tatoeba itself is tricky that if you want certain phrases for a particular language, you can ask the vocabulary associated with them and hope that the phrases you write are exciting, or you can add similar phrases to your own language and hope that someone will translate them sometimes.

The first method does not work well for requesting complex sentences. The latter works, but very slowly and indirectly; I personally think that the phrases I write may sometimes help my posterity to learn Finnish, not that they would be of any use to me or that someone would translate them in the next few decades.
:::

If you can find someone who knows your language who can translate into the target language, you can always ask them directly (via comment or private message) to write or translate sentences for you. Alternatively, if your knowledge of the target language is very good, you can try doing it yourself, but be careful to follow the guidelines here:

https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...ow/non-native#

soliloquist soliloquist 30 days ago December 29, 2019 at 12:41 PM link permalink

> Has it occurred to anyone to create a translation memory with Tatoeba sentences?

There is a small and useful program created by a Hungarian translator. It lacks some functionality, but it's free and easy-to-use.

http://farkastranslations.com/tmlookup.php

I'm using it with the Tatoeba corpus both for looking up translations of Turkish terms and for corpus maintenance. It's often more practical than searching online.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[33807] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
bandeirante bandeirante 29 days ago December 29, 2019 at 7:10 PM link permalink

Thanks soliloquist, I didn't inow that.

sharptoothed sharptoothed 27 days ago December 31, 2019 at 2:43 PM link permalink

** Tatoeba Year 2019 Graphs **

https://tatoeba.j-langtools.com...19/graphs.html

Previous years:
https://tatoeba.j-langtools.com...18/graphs.html
https://tatoeba.j-langtools.com...17/graphs.html
https://tatoeba.j-langtools.com...16/graphs.html