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marafon
3 days ago
CK
3 days ago
sharptoothed
9 days ago
Cangarejo
9 days ago
Cangarejo
12 days ago
Thanuir
12 days ago
ondo
13 days ago
ddnktr
13 days ago
ondo
13 days ago
AlanF_US
16 days ago
Please change Telegu into Telugu.
And please change the Kurdish flag, because PKK is a terrorist organization.
suggest a flag
When Kurds are allowed to express themselves freely and decide on their self-determination, then the PKK might be considered as a terrorist organisation. But for now, it is just a normal People's Liberation organisation, such as the independence fighters in the USA in 1776.
Dictatorships always call "terrorists" whatever doesn't suit their dictatorial agenda.
National flags do no exist for Peoples to whom a nationality is being refused.
Kurds are the largest nation-less People in the world.
While their nation does not yet exist, their fighting flag is good enough, the same way US revolutionarians used their revolutionary flags and didn't ask the British whether that pleased them, although they would also call them "terrorists" at the time.
The Nazis also used to call the european resistants "terrorists".
Using flags for languages is a bad idea, and I denounced it repeatedly, because it confuses nationalities and languages and fosters nationalism. This is a Pandora's box. But if we are to use flags, then nation-less languages have as much a choice for their flag as official nations.
.-.-.
and anyway that was a boracasli fake account
I agree for you with flags, when Tatoeba will be well known enough ( I know, define well known-enough), I will see with everyone to find something to replace them (the 3 letters, or two letters when the two letters, iso 639-alpha2 are well known, such as FR EN) But for the moment I think that will repulse too much "mainstream" user. I mean let's be pragmatic, there's no point on trying to make people become aware of that things ( 1 country != 1 language , there's country with several languages and languages without country etc.) if no one except already convinced people use Tatoeba. So I see that in two times , first become well-known and then starting to militate
Why not use the good old three-letter codes, like "epo", "fra", "get", "eng" etc.?
I also dislike the usage of flags, although we do need some visual representation! Therefore, I think, we should experiment with color-code flag-like representation. Something similar to identicons (user randomly looking avatars generated by a hash from the usernames to represent them in forums an the like).
I think for common languages such as french , english and so using the two letters code (which is also a standard, iso 639-2 alpha 2), may be easie than their 3 letters counterpart (and anyway that's a one to one equivalence, it's just that the 3 letters code is able to represent much more, but fr is strictly equal to fra , and zh maybe for example more easier to be understood than cmn) after yes I've never said that they will be black and white , some nearly-random colors can be a solution (I say nearly random because we need to take care that in some cultures this or that colors as not a negative cultural meaning, for example in Chinese if you write the name of someone in red, that's something usually used only for dead people, if you see what I'm implying)
after what I think will arrive, is that to somepoint (yet to define, when we will think we have rich a large enough audience and that we have a well known """""authority""""" on languages) we will propose a remplacent system, that will co-exists for sometimes with the current flag system, enough time to let user start to get used with it, in order to avoid the "one day flag, the minutes after our new custom representation system" effect.
anyway I think for the language for which we already have no proposition of flag (if the natives/contributors for that language don't find a suitable one, note: it's not always a "nation" flag, cf the Wu one), we can already start to use that , as anyway both things (3 letters code + arbitrary chosen colors VS a arbitrary chosen language) will both be "unknown and new" to people.
+1
+1
Flags are actually good for a quick reference to the language without having to hover it, and of course make Tatoeba graphically more nice-looking (as far as I'm concerned), so I wouldn't like them to be removed in favour of black and white, plain-looking abbreviations, but I do recognize the many problems they arise, especially on an open project that puts so big of an emphasis on language equality.
It is somewhat sad to be obliged to wait for the project to grow before adopting such an important change; an intermediate change would, until then, be better than flags.
It's not only a matter of politics, but also a matter of equality (English is an official language and is spoken in USA and UK, but also Canada, Australia and so many other nations) and disambiguation (Spanish and Portuguese have major variations between their European and central/south American counterparts, and both of them are equal by the project's eyes), so removing flags is vital to the purposes of the project itself.
What I propose for the time being is keeping the flags, flanked by the ISO code, creating, when needed, more specific languages to categorize the sentences, directly connected to the main language.
For example, there could be a sentence in "English", but also one in "American English" and one in "British English", each featuring its terms and customs, but both popping out as results for an "English" search.
It could perhaps be annoying to code such a thing, but I believe it would be possible and useful. What's your opinion on it, project-folk?
+ 1/2
What would you do for Kurdish, that spans over 6 countries : Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Armenia, Azerbaïdjan ? Put 6 flags + the ISO code ?
Most african languages cross borders of 2 to several countries.
Actually, in the present world, languages that do not cross borders are a small minority...
I understand well that the solution to the problem is ethnic cleansing...It's already well under way in most countries : the USA, China, Australia, Turkey, Canada, the UK, ...
If people don't speak the flag's language, let's just exterminate them or displace them and withdraw the surviving children from the care of illiterate parents !
The sarcasm is unnecessary, really.
In those cases when having a single flag would be excessively misleading or inevitably biased, having the ISO codes would make the flags' presence unnecessary.
Their absence wouldn't be a problem at all for Tatoeba's appearance, since it would anyway be a minority compared to the other languages.
>it would anyway be a minority compared to the other languages.
Your vision of the world is completely erroneous !
Not only the majority of languages cross borders, but the VAST majority of the world's countries are multilingual. A tiny country such as Togo has speakers of around 40 of them...
The case where one language equates one country, such as Iceland, is the tiny exception on this planet.
The sarcasm is actually on the side of those who dream of equating countries to languages. Hitler used to object to those Nazis who were afraid of the legacy of the holocaust : "who remembers the Armenians ?"
He knew very well that ethnic cleansings are indeed quickly forgotten.
My statement was not intended to compare languages to countries, rather languages to flags.
Honestly, I hold no interest for battles that are not my own, nor do I think fighting for a flag is anything but pointless. Ethnic cleansing was and is only coincidentally relative to languages, as languages are part of each culture, but those never were, as far as I know, the reason of the cleansings.
As far as I'm concerned, we could remove all flags replacing them with ISO codes; sysko though, pointed out that this would, at least at start, mean some problem.
The point here is finding the right compromise between ideal equity and practical needs.
>Ethnic cleansing was and is only coincidentally relative to languages
You're wrong. For instance, the only difference between Serb and Croat is the writing system (Latin/ Cyrillic). They eviscerated and emasculated each other for just that...The ICC is full of evidence of j that.
Remind me what are the other differences between an atheist Serb and an atheist Croat ?
Irish used to be identified and discriminated by their English occupiers because they spoke Gaelic. Many died just for that.
Also, Esperantophones were exterminated by the Nazis, the Soviets and the Japanese military junta during the 30s, the 3 countries where Esperanto had been the most successful, save France and Belgium.
Millions of people got slaughtered just for speaking languages over the course of history.
In Kurdistan, people daily get arrested, imprisoned and tortured just because they speak their language. The same goes in Sri Lanka, in XinJiang, In Russia, Burma, ...
>sysko though, pointed out that this would, at least at start, mean some problem.
The problem is already there: the battle rages for which flags should apply to nationless languages...and Kurdish is but the tip of the iceberg, so far...What about a Tamil flag ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamil_language
Those you listed are all cultural reasons, languages are "just" a reflection of the corresponding culture.
I don't know of any Esperanto culture that Esperanto speakers were gassed for.
But in most cases, cultures ARE languages. I can't see why you want to make a difference there. People's "culture" is spotted first because of the language they speak or how they write, so that their language becomes the instrument of their discrimination and oppression.
Because there IS a difference. Languages are contained inside cultures, not otherwise.
This however, is getting far from the point, in my opinion. The point is what does Tatoeba have to do to deal with flags, and i believe we both agree on that matter.
Good...
I do like the flags and for many languages, they are no problem. Not many Anglo-Saxons are still alive to oppose the use of Wessex's flag.
Would you have no problem with the Apaches claiming the US flag?
The only reservation that I would have is that it would be a misleading representation for the project.
But you have no reservation that the Indian Federal flag represents Hindi, although Hindi is spoken by less than half of the population of Federal India?
I suppose I would, although I'm not very knowledgeable on the topic.
I support this.
Who provoked this argument? Turks off course. actually Turks deny the existence of Kurds as a nation and they throughout centuries claiming that Kurds are nothing but barbarian tribles of TURKS. with such kind of people you can never go into a peaceful solution even if you change flag to three iso letters still they would say that this language is spoken by terrorist organization and it must be banned. so flags are not problem at all but the mentality of those racists and i think this website is not a place to discuss this subject. thanks sacredceltic for your deep understanding.
"Telegu" is indeed a mistake, though. It should be "Telugu".
Hello lovely people
check correctness of my sentences cause i'm always drunk
Why don't anyone makes me an admin?
I have a question about appropriate processes for changing multiple sentences.
An original Tanaka pair was: "注文を確認する。/Confirm the order." (126326,277666). To it has been added the Spanish "Confirmar el pedido.". CK has (rightly) unlinked the English as it is not a complete sentence (and the Japanese is not an imperative.) I'd like to make a small change: "注文を確認しました", then add back the English (I confirmed the order." I would then ask moyamoyatenshi (if he/she is still around) to update the Spanish. Is that an acceptable way of doing things?
It's the only sentence with both 注文 and 確認. If the above is not OK, I could put in two new sentences ab initio, but it seems cleaner to repair what is there now.
I've done this plenty of times. Changing the Japanese sentence and then asking the other contributors to change their translations. It's quite tedious however.
Thanks. I'll do that.
Sentence 83307 used to be linked to 21645. It is no longer linked, but no unlinking is shown in the logs. However 21645 *is* still linked back to 83307. What happened? Are there any other one-way links hanging around?
Similar problem with 88822. It's supposed to be linked to 314883, but the link has vanished. Nothing in the logs.
Can I re-establish the link? If so how?
I've found lots of these
the best way around is to unlink and relink them,
they should be fine then.
Although that's not always the case.
Links that vanish without a trace are worrying. Is this some sort of database corruption? Maybe Sysko should look into it.
they should be ok now
How do you link to an existing sentence (it's not something I've had to do before.)
Probably defective javascript produces defective links...
JavaScript can't do this. The problem is server-side. Server exposes (or at least should expose) no functions to do one-way linking, only two-way linking, so JavaScript simply has no access to do one-way links.
Javascript can, depending on what is exposed...
Thanks! I'd missed that. I've installed CK's bookmarklet.
In January sentence 76069 was deleted. It wasn't a great one, but it was the only one using the Japanese word 時系列 (chronological order, time series), and hence in WWWJDIC it is the in-line example.
Since it has been deleted, there are no comments visible, so I can't see why it was removed. Was it just bad or was it a random event? Is there any way the comments associated with removed sentences can be retained?
Hi everybody. I am Italian living in California. I found Tatoeba while looking for Japanese language learning tools. What a great project!
I'll try to get a lay of the land before I start contributing.
Grazie. ありがとう。
This thing is addictive. I have to stop translating sentences and get on with my day. :D
Bienvenue !
Ho avuto la stessa reazione i primi giorni.
Benvenuta e buon proseguimento. :D
welcome dada!
I hope you enjoy your time here
ようこそ～
As I know some of you work with the Tatoeba data and its graph representation, I've found this yesterday
http://sigmajs.org/examples.html
it's a JS library to display visually graph, if someone feels like doing a proof of concept to display a sentence and its translations graph like this http://sigmajs.org/examples/more_node_info.html ...
Hello. I have noticed that this site is slow. Is that me or the site is really slow? Please give me know.
When i add translation there appears some... some... ah... don't know how to call it... "waiting sign".
It's ok for me. Quite responsive. I rarely have to wait more than 1-2 seconds.
Sentences in Esperanto by Ronaldonl weren't corrected since (May) 2011
http://tatoeba.org/deu/user/profile/Ronaldonl
If I see any suggestion from another user in his sentences, I'll make them effective asap
I'd hope anyone else could give them a look
i will correct the mistakes. And add sentences in my language.