menu
Tatoeba
language
Register Log in
language English
menu
Tatoeba

chevron_right Register

chevron_right Log in

Browse

chevron_right Show random sentence

chevron_right Browse by language

chevron_right Browse by list

chevron_right Browse by tag

chevron_right Browse audio

Community

chevron_right Wall

chevron_right List of all members

chevron_right Languages of members

chevron_right Native speakers

search
clear
swap_horiz
search

Wall (6,959 threads)

Tips

Before asking a question, make sure to read the FAQ.

We aim to maintain a healthy atmosphere for civilized discussions. Please read our rules against bad behavior.

Latest messages feedback

sharptoothed

yesterday

subdirectory_arrow_right

Cangarejo

yesterday

subdirectory_arrow_right

Cangarejo

5 days ago

subdirectory_arrow_right

Thanuir

5 days ago

subdirectory_arrow_right

ondo

5 days ago

subdirectory_arrow_right

ddnktr

6 days ago

feedback

ondo

6 days ago

subdirectory_arrow_right

AlanF_US

9 days ago

feedback

Nandixer

10 days ago

feedback

cblanken

12 days ago

gracehero gracehero February 20, 2012 February 20, 2012 at 6:24:01 PM UTC link Permalink

To whom it may concern.

If there are possible to set font-family property to specific language, I have a suggestion to update CSS for Mongolian text.

Please set Mongolian text's Font-family property to 'Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, sans-serif'.

Mongolian text can looks clear in these fonts.

Regards,
Gracehero.

el_vecino el_vecino February 20, 2012 February 20, 2012 at 11:04:03 AM UTC link Permalink

I was wondering if there exists any way to put a limit of word in a sentence when I am doing a search. I mean, like searching for sentences which content the word "father" and have less than 10 words.....

I'm starting to learn a new language and that would be very helpful.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[11552] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
sacredceltic sacredceltic February 20, 2012 February 20, 2012 at 2:17:03 PM UTC link Permalink

http://sphinxsearch.com/docs/2....ed-syntax.html

{{vm.hiddenReplies[11554] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
el_vecino el_vecino February 20, 2012 February 20, 2012 at 2:50:29 PM UTC link Permalink

Thanks sacredceltic. I have been reading it, but I haven't figured out how to do it...
It would be great, if somebody could give an example.

sysko sysko February 25, 2012 February 25, 2012 at 9:27:42 AM UTC link Permalink

It seems that, though they provide a large scale of different operators, that they don't have a "words in sentences limit", operator (which is by itself not that surprising as sphinx is a general purpose search engine, more targeted to large text indexation

When I have time I will post a feature request on their forum, to see if they can implement this

In the new version (ok I know...), with meta information, indicating the number of words (or a range, as I know "word" as not a strict definition, especially in some languages), may also be a solution

el_vecino el_vecino February 20, 2012 February 20, 2012 at 11:04:41 AM UTC link Permalink

Sorry I forgot.. Thanks in advance...

Hendel Hendel February 20, 2012 February 20, 2012 at 5:03:46 AM UTC link Permalink

Just wondering, but would it not be possible, when a new translation is added, for it to check whether that exact sentence already exists in that language, and if so just create the link rather than adding a new sentence? This way there would be fewer duplicates and a lot of linking could be done automatically.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[11549] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
marcelostockle marcelostockle February 20, 2012 February 20, 2012 at 6:36:45 AM UTC link Permalink

I have the impression this same question had appeared so many times : )

Anyways, every pair of perfect duplicates eventually merges automatically, so there's no need to concern much about it.

sacredceltic sacredceltic February 20, 2012 February 20, 2012 at 8:35:50 AM UTC link Permalink

Anyway, for a system to search for a duplicate, it requires that the duplicate be typed in the first place. Typing for search or for add takes the exact same amount of time...
Consequently, preventing duplicates or removing them later requires exactly the same human effort and produces the exact same result.
The only difference is that while they're there, duplicates risk being re-translated in languages they already have a translation in, triggering the same debates if the new translation is wrong...
But at the same time, when people see that a sentence is already translated, they tend to think that the job is finished, because they don't think, in the first place, that a sentence might have several translations in the same language, although Tatoeba supports that very well and that in the real world, a sentence almost always has multiple translations in any language. The translation of duplicates thus allows new translations that people didn't think about in the first place.
Eventually, holding a few duplicates for a limited period of time might seem unproductive at first glance, but it is actually creative.
A blessing in disguise...

hectorM hectorM February 19, 2012 February 19, 2012 at 11:27:11 PM UTC link Permalink

I want to translate existing French or English sentences into German. When I get 15 sentences to translate, how do I get only sentences that are not already translated into German.
Thanks for your help.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[11543] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
Dejo Dejo February 19, 2012 February 19, 2012 at 11:47:02 PM UTC link Permalink

Hi, hectorM
Go to the top of the page and open the "Browse" menu, then select "Browse by Language" then look on the right side of the page and it's self-explanatory.

CK CK February 18, 2012, edited October 30, 2019 February 18, 2012 at 1:12:27 PM UTC, edited October 30, 2019 at 5:37:06 AM UTC link Permalink

[not needed anymore- removed by CK]

{{vm.hiddenReplies[11538] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
sacredceltic sacredceltic February 18, 2012 February 18, 2012 at 4:25:26 PM UTC link Permalink

These "native" stats are biased.

- They exclude very large contributors in planned languages such as Esperanto, for which some of them are native-like.
- They exclude dual-native contributors.
- They are based on contributors' own claims of being natives, even when they are not actually native and that shows.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[11539] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
al_ex_an_der al_ex_an_der February 18, 2012 February 18, 2012 at 5:08:13 PM UTC link Permalink

We shouldn't forget that these statistics are not an official report delivered by our well paid (non existing) service stuff, but a private initiative of CK presenting some really interesting information (even if not all details sacredceltic and I would like to see are include) so above all I want to say THANK YOU, CK, for this helpful orientation, and the work you have invested!

MrShoval MrShoval February 17, 2012 February 17, 2012 at 12:37:18 PM UTC link Permalink

Question about linking.
In case of multiple versions in same language, can they be concatenated? For example - can a Hebrew sentence stem from another Hebrew sentence and so on, or should each Heb version be linked to another language? Or anything goes?
thanks

{{vm.hiddenReplies[11525] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
al_ex_an_der al_ex_an_der February 17, 2012 February 17, 2012 at 1:20:21 PM UTC link Permalink

A sentence may be linked to another sentence of the same language, if both have the same or a very similar meaning. If clearly different meanings are perceivable, the sentences should better be linked only to other languages. That's at least my opinion.

al_ex_an_der al_ex_an_der February 17, 2012 February 17, 2012 at 1:24:39 PM UTC link Permalink

Oni povas ligi frazon kun frazo de la sama lingvo, se ambaŭ havas la saman aŭ tre similan signifon. Se percepteblas klare malsamaj signifoj, oni prefere ligu la frazojn nur kun aliaj lingvoj. Tio estas almenaŭ mia opinio.

sacredceltic sacredceltic February 17, 2012 February 17, 2012 at 4:08:39 PM UTC link Permalink

This is debated. I agree with al_ex_an_der that sentences in the same language could be linked if they mean the same thing.
The advantage I see is translators can see different versions of the same sentence together.

Opponents of this will argue that you are still able to see them as indirect translations, but that is true only if you see them from the right language, since indirect translations are viewed only on the 2d level.

For example:

If sentence S1 means the same thing as S2 in a given language

When S1 is translated into Japanese and English
and when S2 is translated into Japanese and German

You can see S2 and S1 as direct translations from the Japanese translation.
You can see S2 as an indirect translation of S1 through Japanese from the English translation of S1
You can see S1 as an indirect translation of S2 through Japanese from the German translation of S2

But if if the German translation is translated in Italian, from that Italian sentence

You will see S2 as an indirect translation through German, but you won't see S1...

al_ex_an_der al_ex_an_der February 16, 2012 February 16, 2012 at 1:00:55 PM UTC link Permalink

I've got a message sent by "Anylove", titled "Hello, my dear", which I deleted unread. Such messages are written with criminal intent, and you shouldn't expect that in their content is anything true.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[11517] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
peibolvig peibolvig February 16, 2012 February 16, 2012 at 11:58:02 PM UTC link Permalink

I also received the very same message, I back the idea of block this bot. It'd be a problem if this kind of "users" start to pop out of their lairs...

Is it difficult to add a captcha in the register? I hope it doesn't.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[11524] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
sacredceltic sacredceltic February 17, 2012 February 17, 2012 at 4:10:48 PM UTC link Permalink

The problem with captchas is that they are not always well understood and deter people from becoming users...

{{vm.hiddenReplies[11529] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
peibolvig peibolvig February 17, 2012 February 17, 2012 at 4:18:08 PM UTC link Permalink

Ok but where I said captchas you can say alternative methods as «sum this two numbers»,«write the last 5letters of the word xxxxxxxxx»,systems.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[11530] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
sacredceltic sacredceltic February 17, 2012 February 17, 2012 at 4:24:36 PM UTC link Permalink

Or even simpler: show a flag, and ask which language it matches...

Of course, the questions have to be in the language of the speaker...that's the difficult part, since otherwise you bias the service, excluding people who don't understand the questions...

{{vm.hiddenReplies[11532] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
marcelostockle marcelostockle February 18, 2012 February 18, 2012 at 12:59:46 AM UTC link Permalink

I think I have a much better idea:
How about, if you don't get the possibility of sending PMs until you contribute with, I don't know, at least 15 sentences, or something like that?
We kill two birds with one shot ;)

{{vm.hiddenReplies[11534] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
jakov jakov February 21, 2012 February 21, 2012 at 11:08:38 AM UTC link Permalink

On the other handm it's the new users that need help the most! They couldnt contact other users for help then.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[11557] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
Vortarulo Vortarulo February 21, 2012 February 21, 2012 at 1:53:47 PM UTC link Permalink

This was also my concern. There might be users who join the website mainly to indicate a mistake in a sentence and only then begin to like the work and get working on translations.
Also, if someone joins, while he's getting his 15 sentences done, he might still be doing many mistakes (forgettings periods, not translating directly, including annotations or the-like) and while people could contact him, he could not answer until he reaches 15 sentences.

So I don't really like the idea with the 15 sentences...

{{vm.hiddenReplies[11561] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
arcticmonkey arcticmonkey February 21, 2012 February 21, 2012 at 2:03:52 PM UTC link Permalink

How about captchas only for a user's first ten or so messages? That should keep spammers at bay and it wouldn't affect long-time users.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[11562] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
Vortarulo Vortarulo February 21, 2012 February 21, 2012 at 2:10:20 PM UTC link Permalink

Captchas just for messages, eh?
Hm, that might be a good idea. On the other hand, might spammers then simple drop the idea of adressing users and instead put their spam messages in comments below sentences or as sentences themselves?

al_ex_an_der al_ex_an_der February 18, 2012 February 18, 2012 at 1:48:50 AM UTC link Permalink

That's a brilliant idea. Tio estas brila ideo.

sacredceltic sacredceltic February 18, 2012 February 18, 2012 at 7:39:26 AM UTC link Permalink

Boracasli already created scripts to produce as many sentences as he wants, with simple dots...
The process of filtering must be automation-proof. So far, only captchas or questions (non repetitive, non predictable) cannot be automated.

sacredceltic sacredceltic February 17, 2012 February 17, 2012 at 4:21:34 PM UTC link Permalink

That is indeed better acorrding to me, as long as questions are random, otherwise hackers will find a way to automate this as well...
A good Tatoeba-in-house trick could be to pick a sentence at random and ask in which language it is written (with a limited list of choices)...

Balamax Balamax February 16, 2012 February 16, 2012 at 1:14:24 PM UTC link Permalink

The same stuff appears in ''his/her'' comments to the sentences!

{{vm.hiddenReplies[11518] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
MrShoval MrShoval February 16, 2012 February 16, 2012 at 2:15:10 PM UTC link Permalink

That Anita keeps sending and repeating her messages, please /block user ANILOVE.

GrizaLeono GrizaLeono February 16, 2012 February 16, 2012 at 3:03:18 PM UTC link Permalink

Ankaŭ mi ricevis ŝian/lian mesaĝon.

sacredceltic sacredceltic February 16, 2012 February 16, 2012 at 5:04:50 PM UTC link Permalink

Le problème est que Tatoeba n'a pas de système de filtrage des inscriptions comme des captchas, qui permettent de filtrer les robots. C'est pourquoi, parmi les 8000 utilisateurs de Tatoeba, près de 6000 ont été créés par des robots.
Comme vous pouvez voir ici, leurs noms d'utilisateurs ont été créés par un algorithme : http://tatoeba.org/epo/users/all/page:408

marcelostockle marcelostockle February 16, 2012 February 16, 2012 at 1:40:39 AM UTC link Permalink

what about if two equivalent simplified and traditional Chinese sentences are automatically merged?
I don't mean deleting, but perhaps linking both of them, and share their links.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[11516] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
Zifre Zifre February 16, 2012 February 16, 2012 at 10:36:45 PM UTC link Permalink

I think they should be totally merged, not just linked. Simplified and traditional characters are just two orthographies for the same language.

LaraCroft LaraCroft February 16, 2012 February 16, 2012 at 5:00:08 PM UTC link Permalink

For your info: I can also confirm that the same 'anita' anylove is operating in other communities too, with exactly the same message texto. Looks like a 'robotic' spam to track email-address, so better NOT respond.

wallebot wallebot February 15, 2012 February 15, 2012 at 7:30:43 PM UTC link Permalink

Etiqueta para modales:

A veces dos frases pueden tener el mismo significado pero ser mas corteses o menos.
Dame tu camara
Dejame tu camara.
Me podrias dejar tu camara.

¿O te vas o te quedas? A mi me da igual
¿Si quieres te puede quedar o irte? Como te parezca mejor.

En la comunicacion entre personas, aunque el mensaje sea el mismo, es un detalle importante.

La otra persona puede entender no te expresas como quieres y si hay un sonrisa lo entiende aun mejor. Pero puede generar conflictos.
Por desgracia las frases más educadas suelen ser más complicadas.

Creo que una etiqueta que los indique seria muy util.
Mis sugerencias. No he encontrado otras.
Diplomatic o gentle.

Tambien estaria bien indicar que un frase es un poco brusca o hay otra opcion mas amable.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[11514] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
Shishir Shishir February 15, 2012 February 15, 2012 at 10:33:19 PM UTC link Permalink

Para las frases que son bruscas se puede poner la etiqueta "rude", y para las que son más educadas podrías poner "polite" = educado, para aprovechar las etiquetas que ya tenemos.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[11515] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
wallebot wallebot February 18, 2012 February 18, 2012 at 9:35:11 PM UTC link Permalink

gracias por contestar.
Lo tendre en cuenta y lo indicaré en lo comentarios.
No puedo añadir etiquetas por mi mismo.