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sacredceltic sacredceltic February 10, 2012 February 10, 2012 at 6:12:07 PM UTC link Permalink

Je trouverais utile que dans la liste des contributions d'un utilisateur, on indique les drapeaux (ou un code langue ISO...) sur les phrases ajoutées, mais aussi sur les liens créés, au lieu de disposer seulement des numéros de phrases liées.

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alexmarcelo alexmarcelo February 10, 2012 February 10, 2012 at 11:06:38 PM UTC link Permalink

+1

marcelostockle marcelostockle February 10, 2012 February 10, 2012 at 5:07:21 AM UTC link Permalink

Anyone else thinks the color of transliterated sentence is too bright? This is specially troublesome in Japanese.

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al_ex_an_der al_ex_an_der February 10, 2012 February 10, 2012 at 9:50:37 AM UTC link Permalink

Yes, Sir. ;)

Demetrius Demetrius February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 6:58:45 AM UTC link Permalink

Any chance to change "Taiwan, province of China" in the country list to something more neutral?

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Zifre Zifre February 10, 2012 February 10, 2012 at 12:40:42 AM UTC link Permalink

+1

It is amazing how off-topic this is become...

But I agree. Just "Taiwan" is pretty neutral. I don't think it should be "Republic of China" or anything like that.

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marcelostockle marcelostockle February 26, 2012 February 26, 2012 at 8:44:35 PM UTC link Permalink

what about Serbia and Montenegro?
I think they should be named separately

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Zifre Zifre February 26, 2012 February 26, 2012 at 8:48:15 PM UTC link Permalink

It's probably based off an old country list...

Vortarulo Vortarulo February 10, 2012 February 10, 2012 at 1:07:09 AM UTC link Permalink

+1

Demetrius Demetrius February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 8:39:26 AM UTC link Permalink

BTW, any chance to make countries translatable?

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sacredceltic sacredceltic February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 2:32:59 PM UTC link Permalink

[eng]
Is this the reason why so few contributors in Russian don't indicate their country on their profile?
In my statistics of 2011 contributions, I noticed that ALL the main contributors who didn't indicate their country contribute in Russian: afyodor, Imp, Aleksej, Ann74, Vixen96, redscorp, Katheriinne, kobylkin, Lich, verter

What's wrong with indicating your country when you speak Russian? Are they afraid of the FSB?
If not, that would be nice that they do, because it would make my worldmap more accurate: https://docs.google.com/spreads...r&pli=1#gid=15

[epo]
Ĉu tio estas la kialo por kiu tiom malmultaj kontribuantoj en la rusa ne indikas sian landon en siaj profiloj ?
En miaj statistikoj pri 2011 kontribuaĵoj, mi rimarkis ke ĈIUJ kontribuantoj kiuj ne indikis siaj landoj kontribuis en la rusa : afyodor, Imp, Aleksej, Ann74, Vixen96, redscorp, Katheriinne, kobylkin, Lich, verter

Kio estas problemo kun indiki sia lando kiam vi parolas la rusa ? Ĉu ili timis la FSB ?
Se ne, tio estus bona se ili farus tion, ĉar mia mondomapo pli ĝustus :https://docs.google.com/spreads...r&pli=1#gid=15

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sacredceltic sacredceltic February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 2:49:15 PM UTC link Permalink

[eng]
maybe they are from Belarus? I know that it is illegal in Belarus to connect to foreign websites...and you are the only one, Demetrius, to indicate "Belarus" in your profile. Do you have a special license for that from your beloved eternal leader Alexander Lukashenko? Or did you choose to pay the fines to contribute to our work?

[epo]
eble ili devenas de belorusio. Mi scias ke konekti al fremdaj webpaĝoj kontraŭleĝas en belorusio...kaj vi estas la sola, Demetrius, kiu indikas "belorusio" en sia profilo. Ĉu vi havas speciala permeso por tion de via amata eterna gvidanto Alexandro Lukashenko? Aŭ ĉu vi elektis pagi la punojn por kontribui nian verkon?

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Demetrius Demetrius February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 3:07:15 PM UTC link Permalink

> I know that it is illegal in Belarus to connect
> to foreign websites...
No, it's not the case, of course!

The Internet is available in Belarus, it's only just a little slow, because KGB agents are busy monitoring the traffic in order to protect us from false information. ;)

> Do you have a special license for that
> from your beloved eternal leader
> Alexander Lukashenko?
Of course I do! ;)

But unfortunately he is not eternal. But we all hope his son Kolya will continue his father's work! xD

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sacredceltic sacredceltic February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 3:18:35 PM UTC link Permalink

Funny how you ignore your country's latest legislation:

From 6 January 2012, a law will come into effect making it illegal for citizens of Belarus to visit or use foreign websites; anyone breaking the law will be found to have committed a misdemeanour, and fined up to $125 USD (to put this into perspective, the average monthly wage in Belarus is approximately $208, as of December 2011). Companies and individuals will be forbidden from accessing websites, using email or webmail services, payment and transaction services, and other online activities, unless they are provided through domestic domains on homeland servers.

The Belarusian Government has made clear that its legislation isn’t just a technicality that will exist on paper alone. If a friend uses your computer, or if a neighbour piggy-backs on your home network, to access a foreign website via your connection, you will be held accountable and liable to prosecution. Internet cafés that fail to properly limit access to foreign websites will be subject to fines; if owners of internet cafés find users accessing foreign sites, but fail to report those users to the authorities, their businesses will be subject to closure.

According to the United States Library of Congress, the Government of Belarus has authorised its national police force, secret police agencies and tax authorities “to initiate, investigate and prosecute” any violations by individuals and organisations both domestic and foreign. If an international company such as Amazon makes a sale to a Belarusian citizen, the Attorney General of Belarus reserves the right to hold the company in contempt of the State, and may choose to sue the company. For this reason, many observers believe that multinational websites will simply block access to Belarus entirely, in order to avoid any such hassle or litigation, effectively shutting off Belarus from the digital world.

http://www.neowin.net/news/acce...ned-in-belarus

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Demetrius Demetrius February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 3:34:34 PM UTC link Permalink

It's either a misunderstanding or an obvious lie.

Please wait, I'll translate a comment on this new laws.

In short: there are no fines for users at all, only for providers.

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sacredceltic sacredceltic February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 3:51:24 PM UTC link Permalink

Well, then, the entire web and international media are a lie and that's probably why the web is being shut down in Belarus. The truth comes only from the mouth of the leader...

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al_ex_an_der al_ex_an_der February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 5:42:30 PM UTC link Permalink

"La estimata gvidanto perdos la batalon." asertas jena artikolo en germana lingvo:

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/digi...ampf-1.1250927

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al_ex_an_der al_ex_an_der February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 5:57:56 PM UTC link Permalink

"Laŭ supraĵa rigardo tio estas provo devigi retajn komercistojn transloki la sidejojn de siaj firmaoj al Belorusio, por ke ili tie pagu impostojn."

>>> http://tatoeba.org/deu/sentences/show/1422622

al_ex_an_der al_ex_an_der February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 6:14:41 PM UTC link Permalink

"Kiom intensa estas la kontrolado de la Reto en Belorusio?" - "Mi vizitas tiujn retopaĝojn, kiujn mi volas legi – konsciante, ke la aŭtoritatoj rajtas stori kaj kolekti informojn pri mia ip-adreso kaj pri ĉiuj paĝoj, kiujn mi vizitas. Tio ne kondukos al tio, ke morgaŭ iu frapos al mia pordo kaj arestos min, sed se min iam trafos suspekto, oni povos uzi tion ĉi por malfavorigi mian situacion."

>>> http://tatoeba.org/deu/sentences/show/1422639

Demetrius Demetrius February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 4:15:20 PM UTC link Permalink

Here is the detailed information. Taken from here [my comments are in square brackets]:
http://news.tut.by/society/267317.html

So, the top 5 misconceptions are:

1. Belarusians will be forbidden to visit foreign websites. Those who break this law will be fined.

**In reality:** neither decree No. 60, nor KoAP RB [Codex for Administrative crimes of Republic of Belarus] forbid visiting foreign websites. Article 22.16 of KoAP RB doesn't make any provide any punishments for Internet users, they have right to use foreigh Internet resources, as well as buy goods and services there [well, it's difficult anyway, because PayPal doesn't work with Belarus; mostly Russian sites are available]. And they can also, if they wish so, visit the sites included in the restricted access list.

2. Deals made by Belarusian users on foreign Internet resources can be considered invalid. Foreign Internet resources have no right to provide services for Belarusian users and can block access for Belarusian users so as not to break Belarusian laws.

**In reality.** As has already been mentioned, Belarusian laws don't restrict users' rights to make deals on foreigh sites. What concerns legal entities and entrepreneurs, who are not residents of RB, they are not under the Belarusian juridiction and their actions are not regulared by Belarusian laws, with the exception of representatives of foreign legal entities that are registered in RB.

3. To offer goods, work or services on the Belarusian territory, one must use only the Internet resources with a doman name in the BY zone.

**In reality.** The legislation makes a provision that the informational resource should be situated on the territory of Republic of Belarus and be registered in the State registry of informational networks, systems and resources of the national segment of the Internet computer network, that are situated on the Belarusian territory. There is no requirement that the site must have a domain name in the BY zone. A site that has a domain name in a foreign zone and Belarusian hosting belongs to the national segment of the Internet networc (according to the definition of the national segment, given in the decree No. 60), and it fully satisfies the requirememnts for registration in the state registry. Mandatory use of domain names in the BY zone is provisioned only for state organs and organisations, this is separately stated in the decree of the Council of Ministers of RB, 24.09.2010 No. 645.

4. The owners of the places of collective Internet use must spy on their users and check if Belarusian users don't visit foreign sites. Otherwise they will be fined and their business will be closed.

**In reality.** As we have mentioned above, Belarusian users are not forbidden to visit foreign sites and laws don't make the owners of the places of collective internet access check this. There are responsible for obeying the requirements for identification of user devices when providing the Internet services and/or users of Internet service, keeping information about user devices and personal data on the Internet users, as well as the information of the Internet services rendered.

5. Belarus creates a mandatory restriction, sites in the black list will be blocked.

**In reality.** Mandatory restriction is in power only in governmental organs and organisations, as well as educational and cultural organisations. For other users the access restriction service [sic!] is offered if they wish so, but any user can visit any sites.

It should be noted, that currently the restricted access list includes not only (most) sites with pornographic and frankly extremist content, but also such sites as _сharter97.org_, _belaruspartisan.org_ and _prokopovi.ch_. Paragraph 20 of the decree of Presidential Operative analysis centre, Communications and informatisation ministry, June, 29 2010 No. 4/11 "About the setting the procedury of restricting Internet user access to the information that is forbidden for propagation according to the legislative acts" provides the possibility to appeal agains the governmental organs, authorised to create the list, in the court. The time will show whether any of the site owners will use such a possibility and whether it will be effective. [Of course it won't.]

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sacredceltic sacredceltic February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 4:25:09 PM UTC link Permalink

Belarusian law, in the end, is just being very much misinterpreted when a little re-interpretation clearly shows that it is as permissive as in any western country, obviously...

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Demetrius Demetrius February 9, 2012 February 9, 2012 at 7:02:27 AM UTC link Permalink

Laws are not that bad. According to the Belarusian laws, President is elected by people, while Belarusian language enjoys the same rights as Russian. :)

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sacredceltic sacredceltic February 9, 2012 February 9, 2012 at 10:07:33 AM UTC link Permalink

Yeah, the other potential candidates to the presidency are systematically either beaten, exiled or imprisoned...Not that bad, for sure...

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Demetrius Demetrius February 9, 2012 February 9, 2012 at 10:20:48 AM UTC link Permalink

They are beaten not according to the law. :p

Demetrius Demetrius February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 4:03:05 PM UTC link Permalink

Believe it or not, visiting foreign websited is not forbidden.

These ‘news’ seems to come from the Library of Congress. I don't know if it is a lie or misunderstanding, but others just parroted this rumour.


IN REALITY this law forces Internet providers to save information about their users. If they don't save this information, they are fined.

Users are allowed to visit any websited they want.

[If they visit websites that KGB doesn't like, police will just ‘see’ them saying swearwords in public, or invent some other crime for them. But this is not written in the laws, of course.]

ACCORDING TO THE LAW, there are no punishment for users visiting any website.

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sacredceltic sacredceltic February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 4:06:02 PM UTC link Permalink

So the fines are an invention of the CIA, supposedly?

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Demetrius Demetrius February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 4:14:03 PM UTC link Permalink

Or by journalists.

Only Internet providers can be fined, Internet users can't.

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sacredceltic sacredceltic February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 4:15:37 PM UTC link Permalink

So your provider accepts to pay the fine for you to visit Tatoeba?
That's very gracious of them!

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Demetrius Demetrius February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 4:18:49 PM UTC link Permalink

Provider (supposedly) saves all the information about the sites I visited (and even more), so it won't be fined. :)

marcelostockle marcelostockle February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 8:43:35 AM UTC link Permalink

good idea, I'm for it!

sacredceltic sacredceltic February 9, 2012 February 9, 2012 at 11:17:10 PM UTC link Permalink

*** alerte utilisateurs / viglo anoj / alert users ***

[fra] quelqu'un est en train de créer des milliers de comptes utilisateurs...

[epo] iu estas kreanta miloj da uzantaj kontoj...

[eng] someone is creating thousands of user accounts...

http://tatoeba.org/epo/users/all/page:424

senprokraste senprokraste February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 9:05:14 PM UTC link Permalink

eble iu helpos min, mi provis aldoni kelkajn tradukojn, sed mi ne scias kiel uzi supersignojn :(

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danepo danepo February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 10:59:44 PM UTC link Permalink

Por firefox vi povas uzi "transliterator" por ĉiuj sistemoj:
https://addons.mozilla.org/fire...ransliterator/
aŭ ABC-tajpu:
https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/abctajpu/

Por Windows: EK: http://esperanto-mv.pp.ru/Ek/index.html

Por Ubuntu: Esperantoklavaro/x-metodo/alt-gr-metodo elskatole

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al_ex_an_der al_ex_an_der February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 11:20:01 PM UTC link Permalink

Multan dankon pro la multaj instruaj informoj, danepo!

Zifre Zifre February 10, 2012 February 10, 2012 at 12:46:59 AM UTC link Permalink

En Linux, oni ankaŭ povas uzi kunigo-klavon.

Vortarulo Vortarulo February 10, 2012 February 10, 2012 at 1:11:13 AM UTC link Permalink

Ĉar "EK!" havis problemon sur mia komputilo, mi ekuzis "Tajpi", kiu fakte estas preskaŭ la sama programo kiel "EK!":

http://zz9pza.ath.cx/tajpi/en/Index.html

al_ex_an_der al_ex_an_der February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 9:08:56 PM UTC link Permalink

Mi sendis al vi du interretajn ligojn kie vi trovos helpon...

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al_ex_an_der al_ex_an_der February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 9:46:51 PM UTC link Permalink

Ĉu iu el vi povas rekomendi oportunan solvon por produkti la supersignojn de Esperanto per programo funkciiva en la operacia sistemo MAC? Mi kore petas vian subtenon.

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danepo danepo February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 10:42:55 PM UTC link Permalink

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto_orthography

X-metodo por OSX: http://meeuw.org/osx/

peibolvig peibolvig February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 8:36:30 PM UTC link Permalink

[spa]
Ok, esta es para hispanohablantes.
En frases del tipo "She went to...", hasta ahora estoy especificando siempre el sujeto. El caso es que no siempre suena bien, porque casi siempre se podría suprimir.
Qué consideráis que es más correcto? especificarlo o no?
Ej: "Ella fue a..." vs "Fue a..."

[eng]
Ok, this one is for spanish speakers but I'm open to anyone who can understand my question and contribute so I'm going to state it in english also.

My question is that, in some spanish sentences the subject could be omited, and in fact is the usual way, but I don't know if it's more educational to display it.

i.e.: "She can drive a car." and "He can drive a car.", usually is translated as "(Ella/Él) sabe conducir un coche."
Between parenthesis the subject that can be omited.

Which one do you think it's the most educational way? with or without it?

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peibolvig peibolvig February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 8:59:45 PM UTC link Permalink

Ok, then I think I'm going to stick with the man in the street spanish, and omit the subject in those scenarios.

Thanks

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marcelostockle marcelostockle February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 9:02:08 PM UTC link Permalink

No le tomes tanta importancia a la forma en que yo me pronuncie. A fin de cuentas es solo mi opinión inexperta : )

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peibolvig peibolvig February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 9:08:56 PM UTC link Permalink

[spa]
Ya, pero no es sólo tu opinión. También es la de un no hispano hablante y eso añade peso a esa opinión (que realmente es lo que yo pensaba porque me sonaba forzado escribir el sujeto todo el rato, jeje).

[eng]
I know, but is not only your opinion. It's also the opinion of a non spanish speaker and that adds importance to that opinion (that in fact was the way I thought every time I was writing the subject in every sentence, hehehe) <--- look, here I'm laughing in english :p

marcelostockle marcelostockle February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 8:42:53 PM UTC link Permalink

me cito a mi mismo, hace unos días dije:
"...esta clase de acentuaciones en español se suelen omitir comúnmente (si no es que siempre) a menos que te pregunten "¿Quién?".
Dar estas acentuaciones en español hace sonar una frase como una respuesta a una pregunta, no como una frase común y corriente."
http://tatoeba.org/deu/sentence...28221#comments

al_ex_an_der al_ex_an_der February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 8:46:58 PM UTC link Permalink

I can only contribute my personal view; I think it will be better to omitt the personal pronouns in these contexts where it is usuall to omitt them in Spanish.

peibolvig peibolvig February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 8:42:51 PM UTC link Permalink

By the way, I'm new here. Hello everybody! And thanks for the help you're giving me ;)

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alexmarcelo alexmarcelo February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 8:50:47 PM UTC link Permalink

Hi, peibolvig! Welcome to the project!

Efu007 Efu007 February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 7:48:43 AM UTC link Permalink

hola buenas como se que hay palabras traducidas en español y japones

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marcelostockle marcelostockle February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 8:24:34 AM UTC link Permalink

No hay en realidad una forma directa. Esto se debe que el servidor de Tatoeba está preparado para facilitar la contribución, más que la retribución de material.
A lo mejor habrás observado que si ingresas a
Navegar > Navegar por Idioma
puedes enlistar oraciones por idioma, y mostrar solo aquellas NO traducidas a algún lenguaje, pero no puedes hacer lo mismo con oraciones que sí lo estén.

Entiendo que este diseño actual es algo pobre, y que no apunta a los usuarios que simplemente lo quieran usar como buscador, pero como dije, el servidor de Tatoeba no apunta directamente a eso, sino a proporcionar la base de datos para promover el desarrollo de herramientas que le den usos educacionales o de cualquier otro fin.

Sin embargo, si entras a mi perfil podrás ver que por mi parte yo ofrezco de forma particular un motor de búsqueda personalizado a modo de "pedidos". Si te interesa, me puedes enviar un mensaje privado y trataré de armar y enviarte la búsqueda que me especifiques.

alexmarcelo alexmarcelo February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 8:44:14 PM UTC link Permalink

¡Claro que lo puedes hacer! Tenemos una caja de búsqueda en todas las páginas que dice "Example sentences with the words"... solo tienes que seleccionar el español donde dice "from" y el japonés donde dice "to". Por ejemplo, si haces una búsqueda con la palabra "amor", tenemos 93 resultados de frases en español traducidas directa o indirectamente al japonés que contienen la palabra "amor":

http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentence...rom=spa&to=jpn

ludoviko ludoviko February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 7:43:54 PM UTC link Permalink

Vidi pli distancajn tradukojn...

... eblas per la nova versio ankoraŭ prilaborata, kiun oni povas vidi ĉe http://en.tato.sysko.fr/sentences/show/3
(Indirekte Übersetzungen höheren Grades kann man in der neuen Version sehen, die noch bearbeitet wird.)

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al_ex_an_der al_ex_an_der February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 8:11:49 PM UTC link Permalink

Ne malbone, Ludoviko, sed tiuj atentindaj proponoj por teknika solvo ja vivas jam postkulise dum ioma tempo, ĉu atendeblas baldaŭa realiĝo? La respondon malfaciligas la fakto, ke la kapacito de la servilo estas jam nun elĉerpita. Se mi ĝuste memoras, Sysko konstatis, ke ĉiun plibonigon de la funkcioj oni devas pagi per malrapidigo de la tuta sistemo. Kaj ĝis kiam ni NE faros mon-donaco-kampanjon laŭ la ekzemplo de Vikipedio, kiel pliboniĝu la teknika bazo? Tial mi ja bonvenigas la ideon, sed vidas kaj akcentas la aktualan taskon ligi tiujn tradukojn kiuj havas altan grado da kongrueco (kiujn oni vere povas nomi tradukoj). Da ili ekzistas grandega nombro! (Do mi ripetu: Temas pri frazo-paroj aŭ frazo-aroj, kiuj havas la tradukan kvalito-nivelon de rektaj tradukoj, kaj kiujn do indas kaj endas ligi.) Por povi ligi tiajn frazojn kompreneble oni devas esti minimume progresinta kontribuanto kaj posedanto de konoj de du aŭ pluraj lingvoj. Kompreneble oni neniam ligu ion, se oni ne estas certa, ke temas pri fidela aŭ tre proksima traduko. Sed se ĉiu rajtigito ĉiam preterpase klak-ligos kongruajn frazo-parojn de "siaj" lingvoj kaj aldone malkombinas tiujn frazarojn kiuj dume jam kreskigis klare diversajn signifobranĉojn aŭ -pli malbone, sed ne malofte- tute sovaĝe intermiksis diversajn signifokampojn - tiam ni jam post kelkaj monatoj vidos grandan gajnon da superrigardebleco - eĉ se ĝis tiam ne realiĝos novaj teknikaj solvoj en la programsistemo.

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al_ex_an_der al_ex_an_der February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 8:16:39 PM UTC link Permalink

Comments and translations into other languages are welcome.

marcelostockle marcelostockle February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 8:06:44 PM UTC link Permalink

I think it's fantastic!
Though, in my opinion it would be much more useful if it would allow to link sentences together with one click

peibolvig peibolvig February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 7:44:05 PM UTC link Permalink

I have one doubt. Let's say that I can speak english, spanish, and galician.

I translated a sentence from english to spanish, and then to galician.
That way, the sentence in spanish is indirectly related with the galician one. Do I leave it like that? or can I state in some way that the translation is also direct from and to spanish?

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Balamax Balamax February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 7:57:42 PM UTC link Permalink

You may give alternative translation or give translation in another language. Welcome and see FAQ for more information. http://tatoeba.org/epo/faq

marcelostockle marcelostockle February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 8:03:25 PM UTC link Permalink

an advanced contributor can manipulate links between sentences, by linking two sentences together, or unlinking two sentences.
If you want a sentence to be linked to other sentences, you can leave a comment in it like
"Link to ### and ###"
And an advanced contributor will notice your request.

peibolvig peibolvig February 8, 2012 February 8, 2012 at 8:08:51 PM UTC link Permalink

Ok, thanks both for the clarification.