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mbm mbm September 6, 2010 at 2:35 AM September 6, 2010 at 2:35 AM link Permalink

Hi everyone, I've just noticed that a lot (but not all) sentences labelled as Slovak are in fact not Slovak, and a couple of sentences labelled as Russian are in fact not Russian.

Some "Slovak" examples:

http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/470734
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/469011
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/478978
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/476589
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/486980

I know they're not Slovak because, as a native speaker of Czech, I am able to understand Slovak. I don't understand these, though. They appear to be in some Southern Slavic language, possibly Serbian/Croatian or perhaps Slovenian.

Some "Russian" examples:

http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/486979
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/486989
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/475487
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/478206

These can't be Russian because, obviously, they're not in the Cyrillic script. Again they seem to be Serbian or Croatian, or perhaps Slovenian.

I wonder, what's going on here? Are these all language-detection errors?

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TRANG TRANG September 11, 2010 at 8:14 PM September 11, 2010 at 8:14 PM link Permalink

It should be good now :)

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FeuDRenais FeuDRenais September 11, 2010 at 8:35 PM September 11, 2010 at 8:35 PM link Permalink

There's just the mystery of there being 71 sentences in one and 69 in the other... I was sure I always added them in pairs. I wonder what happened.

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FeuDRenais FeuDRenais September 11, 2010 at 8:41 PM September 11, 2010 at 8:41 PM link Permalink

Nevermind, it's just a flag display error on the main page.

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TRANG TRANG September 11, 2010 at 10:46 PM September 11, 2010 at 10:46 PM link Permalink

Indeed, I updated it ^^

FeuDRenais FeuDRenais September 6, 2010 at 2:55 AM September 6, 2010 at 2:55 AM link Permalink

Thank you for bringing this up on the wall. I've gotten numerous comments on my sentences because of this, and so maybe it's better to just put the explanation here for everyone to see.

Yes, there are numerous sentences under "wrong flags". This is not a mistake. This is intentional. All the sentences you have mentioned are either in Bosnian or Croatian. Because those languages are not yet available on Tatoeba, there is no correct flag to put them under. If you look at the sentence tags, you'll notice that all of the sentences you highlighted are already marked "Bosnian" or "Croatian". They will be fixed and put under the proper flags once these languages become available.

Swift Swift September 6, 2010 at 3:01 AM September 6, 2010 at 3:01 AM link Permalink

Hey mbm,

You're right. Some languages aren't listed at Tatoeba yet, despite sentences having been added in them. These are sometimed incorrectly labelled until the language can be added.

These have, however, been tagged as sentences in another language. You should see the tag to the right of the sentence. If you come across a sentence with the wrong language and isn't tagged, you can comment on that sentence (or, in particular if you find a large batch of these post them here as you've just done).

The system doesn't say when the tag was added so there's a chance the tags were added after you posted this here. In that case; thanks for bringing it to the attention of the community.

mbm mbm September 6, 2010 at 3:47 AM September 6, 2010 at 3:47 AM link Permalink

I see. These sentences are work in progress. Nothing to be alarmed about, then.

autuno autuno September 11, 2010 at 6:52 AM September 11, 2010 at 6:52 AM link Permalink

Saluton al ĉiuj, mi estas 78 aĝa emerita pensiulo, Mi esperantistiĝis en 1957. Mi estas kompilanta Esperanto-Vjetnama vortaron. Krome Esperanto, mi parolas la vjetnaman (mia denaska linvo), la francan (tre bone), la anglan (sufiĉe bone). Pezuras al mi respondi9 al ĉiuj viaj demandoj. Thu (aŭtuno)

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Pharamp Pharamp September 11, 2010 at 5:12 PM September 11, 2010 at 5:12 PM link Permalink

Bonvenon!
Ni estas feliĉa vi estas tie ĉi!

(my Esperanto is not good ^^')

CK CK September 11, 2010 at 12:57 AM, edited October 26, 2019 at 4:11 AM September 11, 2010 at 12:57 AM, edited October 26, 2019 at 4:11 AM link Permalink

[not needed anymore- removed by CK]

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sysko sysko September 11, 2010 at 1:09 AM September 11, 2010 at 1:09 AM link Permalink

We will do this in the new version, (yeah it's my new "How can I make people wait sentence :p" )
To be honnest the code which manage the user profile is a bit crappy, and the time it will take is too long compare of the use "I'm talking for the do not show transliteration"
For the point 2, the new version will use a totaly new architecture, which will permit really easily this kind of "only what I need" filtering.

blay_paul blay_paul September 10, 2010 at 5:58 PM September 10, 2010 at 5:58 PM link Permalink

Tatoeba 'Back door' request.

I would like a url like the
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/311760
ones but where you can use parameters to determine what is shown.

e.g. something like ...
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentence...=0;&translit=0

Meaning
* Show sentence 311760
* Show translations (trans=1)
* Do not show indirect translations (indirect=0)
* Do not show transliteration (or furigana) (translit=0)

I think this would be useful when using this site as a learners reference from third party sites (or programs).

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sysko sysko September 10, 2010 at 6:50 PM September 10, 2010 at 6:50 PM link Permalink

it's typically what will be the purpose of the API :)

deniko deniko September 10, 2010 at 4:55 PM September 10, 2010 at 4:55 PM link Permalink

Hi, I'd like to share two of my ideas.

1. Export to csv is a great feature! However, I had a little problem with that csv - when I opened it in MS Excel, it was not recognized as a Unicode file, so non-Latin letters were displayed incorrectly.

After I opened and re-saved it in Notepad, Excel correctly recognized the encoding of the file.

I compared the original CSV and the re-saved one, and I noticed that the latter contained extra three bytes at the beginning with hex codes 0xEF, 0xBB, 0xBF. I'm not very skilled in the technical stuff, but I believe this is some attribute that indicates the encoding of the file.

If you could add these three bytes by default that would be great! If not, it's also ok with me - notepad is always handy.

2. Could you please implement the notification for new personal messages? We've already discussed this with Demetrius. He's told me that this hadn't been implemented because of potential spam threat, but maybe you could make this checkmark unchecked by default, and only those who are fully aware of what they are doing will check it?

It's really convenient to know immediately that you have a new message.

That's all for now :)

Many thanks to the Tatoeba team for such a great project!

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blay_paul blay_paul September 10, 2010 at 5:10 PM September 10, 2010 at 5:10 PM link Permalink

> three bytes at the beginning with hex codes 0xEF, 0xBB, 0xBF.

This is all about the BOM. Microsoft programs loves the BOM, but many Linux, Unix and Mac OS programs hate the BOM.

Technically the BOM is not required for 8-bit Unicode (which Tatoeba uses) but it is still valid.

There are a bunch of free utilities around on the web to add/remove BOMs.

(P.S. BOM = Byte Order Marker).

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deniko deniko September 10, 2010 at 5:11 PM September 10, 2010 at 5:11 PM link Permalink

Ok, got it, thanks for the explanation.

Demetrius Demetrius September 10, 2010 at 5:22 PM September 10, 2010 at 5:22 PM link Permalink

Technically, this is not a BOM, since it doesn't mark byte order. :)

blay_paul blay_paul September 10, 2010 at 5:00 PM September 10, 2010 at 5:00 PM link Permalink

> when I opened it in MS Excel, it was not recognized as a
> Unicode file

This is a known Excel bug (= Excel sucks ;-). Here is how to import a file in Excel 2007 (and later).

1. Create a new, blank Excel workbook.
2. Click 'Data'
3. Click 'From text'
4. Select file and follow instructions.

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deniko deniko September 10, 2010 at 5:06 PM September 10, 2010 at 5:06 PM link Permalink

I've just tried it - and it works, thanks for another way around.

But for most of the users (including me) it's way faster and easier to click "open" after the file is downloaded, than opening Excel and opening it through the Import feature. With these three bytes that I mentioned Excel opens the file fine.

However, as I've already mentioned, I'm not a technician, maybe they work only for Windows or maybe there are other potential problems.

jamshid jamshid September 10, 2010 at 4:39 PM September 10, 2010 at 4:39 PM link Permalink

this site can be so useful for the new learners,,,but it still has some empties,,,i really need such a site,,but i wish the establisher of this site,,make this site perfect,as its name tatoeba,,,,thanks alot,all the best ...............

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blay_paul blay_paul September 10, 2010 at 4:58 PM September 10, 2010 at 4:58 PM link Permalink

Just about everything on this site is open source and available for use. You can take a copy for yourself and do what you want with it (within the terms of the license).

But the best way to make this site perfect is to take part in improving it. For example, by helping the Tatoeba interface support more languages.

mahdiye mahdiye September 10, 2010 at 2:37 PM September 10, 2010 at 2:37 PM link Permalink

what is your goal?

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Demetrius Demetrius September 10, 2010 at 4:18 PM September 10, 2010 at 4:18 PM link Permalink

To have examples of sentences for every word, in all languages in the world. ^^

It will help:
- language learners (and teachers -- they can create exercises based on this data)
- program developers (you can download all the sentences from http://tatoeba.org/eng/download...mple_sentences )

It's also good because rare languages are supported, like Uyghur or Shanghainese. It's hard to find examples in these languages.

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mahdiye mahdiye September 11, 2010 at 12:51 PM September 11, 2010 at 12:51 PM link Permalink

dear sysko!i meant TATOEBA project!
dear Dametious!if i translate one sentence to Persian wrongly,do you check whether it's true?

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Demetrius Demetrius September 11, 2010 at 9:09 PM September 11, 2010 at 9:09 PM link Permalink

I can’t check Persian. :( I don’t know it.
But other people can.

I can check only Russian and Ukrainian translations.

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FeuDRenais FeuDRenais September 11, 2010 at 9:14 PM September 11, 2010 at 9:14 PM link Permalink

Some corrections:

*I can’t check Persian _yet_.

*I don’t know it _yet_.

*But other people can _for now_.

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Demetrius Demetrius September 11, 2010 at 9:21 PM September 11, 2010 at 9:21 PM link Permalink

=)))

No, this is not going to happen. If I were to learn Iranian languages, I would take up Tajik, because it’s written in Cyrillic. ^^

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aandrusiak aandrusiak September 11, 2010 at 11:10 PM September 11, 2010 at 11:10 PM link Permalink

It's actually a brilliant idea to add Tajik sentences to here, we merely need to find a Tajik native :)

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mahdiye mahdiye September 12, 2010 at 8:34 AM September 12, 2010 at 8:34 AM link Permalink

Language of Tajikestan is Persian!
Persian of Iranian is different from Tajik,but the difference isn't great,
we call their language FARSI-E-DARI,
but our language is FARSI

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boracasli boracasli September 12, 2010 at 9:14 AM September 12, 2010 at 9:14 AM link Permalink

Farsi, Tajik, Dari.

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mahdiye mahdiye September 12, 2010 at 1:06 PM September 12, 2010 at 1:06 PM link Permalink

Dari is a branch of Farsi!

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aandrusiak aandrusiak September 12, 2010 at 1:09 PM September 12, 2010 at 1:09 PM link Permalink

Dari and Farsi are separate languages. What you are saying is like saying that Dutch is a branch of English.

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mahdiye mahdiye September 12, 2010 at 1:45 PM September 12, 2010 at 1:45 PM link Permalink

No!do you know?i'm from the north east of Iran where is near to Afghanestan,Tajikestan,Uzbakestan,i have heard how Tajik,Afghan people talk.
i have heard their language.in scientific text,it is written,that Dari & Tajiki are a kind of Persian(or Farsi).
i understand their(tajik & afghan) word!!!!!

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aandrusiak aandrusiak September 12, 2010 at 2:02 PM September 12, 2010 at 2:02 PM link Permalink

Wiki gives an indicative list of differences between Farsi and Dari here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dari_%28Persian%29

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mahdiye mahdiye September 12, 2010 at 2:31 PM September 12, 2010 at 2:31 PM link Permalink

perhaps,i have too much patriotic emotion!:)

aandrusiak aandrusiak September 12, 2010 at 1:56 PM September 12, 2010 at 1:56 PM link Permalink

Well, understanding does not mean the same language. Ukrainians understand 99% of Belarusian and vice versa, but it does not mean they are the same language.

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deniko deniko September 12, 2010 at 2:07 PM September 12, 2010 at 2:07 PM link Permalink

I'm not sure whether it's relative or not, but we and Iranians might have different understanding of what language really is.

I used to study Modern Standard Arabic and I communicated a lot with Arabs from different countries. They were all damned sure, that Standard Arabic, Egyptian Arabic, Saudi Arabian Arabic and all other kind of Arabics are the language. They are just different dialects. That's what they are taught at schools. Any Western linguist, however, would classify Egyptian Arabic and say MSA as two different though closely related languages.

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saeb saeb September 12, 2010 at 2:35 PM September 12, 2010 at 2:35 PM link Permalink

you took the words from my mouth...exactly my view of how it should work ;D

Demetrius Demetrius September 12, 2010 at 9:40 AM September 12, 2010 at 9:40 AM link Permalink

Yes, but I can read Tajik letters, and I can’t read Persian. :)

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aandrusiak aandrusiak September 12, 2010 at 10:30 AM September 12, 2010 at 10:30 AM link Permalink

So do I. In fact, Cyrillic or Latin characters are much more precise than Arab ones in rendering the real pronounciation, because they do show vowels, which the Arab alphabet does not show.

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mahdiye mahdiye September 12, 2010 at 12:56 PM September 12, 2010 at 12:56 PM link Permalink

it shows some vowel such as:a,ou
in addition to,in Farsi,we don't have much vowels,
any way,Arab script became usual,when Arabians attacked to Iran,to extend their religion,about 1300 years ago
after this war,First Persian poet was written by Rodaki,he lived in where we call Uzbakestan,this happend about 2centuri later than

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aandrusiak aandrusiak September 12, 2010 at 1:05 PM September 12, 2010 at 1:05 PM link Permalink

The Arabic letters are not at all suitable for Indo-European languages such as Farsi or Tajik simply because they do not allow writing words with the same consonant profiles and different vowels (homography), which leads to misunderstanding.

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mahdiye mahdiye September 12, 2010 at 1:17 PM September 12, 2010 at 1:17 PM link Permalink

yes,your word is right,before 1300 years ago(before arab attack to Iran)
irainian write by a script that is likes sanskcrit!

Demetrius Demetrius September 12, 2010 at 11:01 AM September 12, 2010 at 11:01 AM link Permalink

Well, it depends on the language.

Arabic script for Uyghur shows all the vowels.

aandrusiak aandrusiak September 11, 2010 at 10:34 PM September 11, 2010 at 10:34 PM link Permalink

That would be my decision as well :)

FeuDRenais FeuDRenais September 11, 2010 at 10:40 PM September 11, 2010 at 10:40 PM link Permalink

Transliteration seems to be up for Uzbek.

Question: do you know why е is transliterated as "ye"?

mahdiye mahdiye September 12, 2010 at 8:27 AM September 12, 2010 at 8:27 AM link Permalink

i try to check their sentences!

mahdiye mahdiye September 11, 2010 at 1:55 PM September 11, 2010 at 1:55 PM link Permalink

yeah!this site is good for learners.i learned some grammar structure.

sysko sysko September 10, 2010 at 2:39 PM September 10, 2010 at 2:39 PM link Permalink

you mean, what is the goal of Tatoeba project ?:)

blay_paul blay_paul September 9, 2010 at 4:36 PM September 9, 2010 at 4:36 PM link Permalink

Is it just me, or has there been a sudden flood of new users here today?

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sysko sysko September 10, 2010 at 12:10 AM September 10, 2010 at 12:10 AM link Permalink

In fact seems tonight something has made tatoeba famous in Iran, if someone can explain why ? Anyway I hope they will find tatoeba usefull, tough we only have 31 sentences in Persian yet :(

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mahdiye mahdiye September 10, 2010 at 12:38 PM September 10, 2010 at 12:38 PM link Permalink

do you know?your site introduced by BBC Persian channel!
i think the reason is this!!!!!!!!!!!

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sysko sysko September 10, 2010 at 12:51 PM September 10, 2010 at 12:51 PM link Permalink

Have you a link or so ?:)

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mahdiye mahdiye September 10, 2010 at 12:55 PM September 10, 2010 at 12:55 PM link Permalink

what do you mean?
explain more,please
i am not bilingual,i speak English difficulty,ha ha ha
however,i register;i join your community

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sysko sysko September 10, 2010 at 12:59 PM September 10, 2010 at 12:59 PM link Permalink

I mean, do you have a youtube link, or in BBC Persian website, where we can see this ?:) I'm really curious ^^
No problem for not being bilingual, I'm also struggling with English hehe

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mahdiye mahdiye September 10, 2010 at 1:15 PM September 10, 2010 at 1:15 PM link Permalink

i can't hyperlink ,because Iranian don't acsess
this site+Youtube.they are filtered
in addition to if previous session of CLICK program(this program introduce you)exist their site,you can't understand Persian

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sysko sysko September 10, 2010 at 1:21 PM September 10, 2010 at 1:21 PM link Permalink

http://www.bbc.co.uk/persian/tv...tv_click.shtml Saeb finds a link :)
I have a Iranian friend, so when I will see him, I can ask him to help me understand :)

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mahdiye mahdiye September 10, 2010 at 1:34 PM September 10, 2010 at 1:34 PM link Permalink

ok:)
we are friend,too

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sysko sysko September 10, 2010 at 1:35 PM September 10, 2010 at 1:35 PM link Permalink

great :D

Demetrius Demetrius September 10, 2010 at 11:31 AM September 10, 2010 at 11:31 AM link Permalink

We do need a safe search!

Now I'm not sure I should have added 398986 ;)

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sysko sysko September 10, 2010 at 11:33 AM September 10, 2010 at 11:33 AM link Permalink

I was really happy to know you Demetrius.

FeuDRenais FeuDRenais September 9, 2010 at 5:03 PM September 9, 2010 at 5:03 PM link Permalink

Exponential growth!

mahdiye mahdiye September 9, 2010 at 3:45 PM September 9, 2010 at 3:45 PM link Permalink

Help me to find the meaning of words.
i don't need interpret scentences!

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sysko sysko September 9, 2010 at 4:15 PM September 9, 2010 at 4:15 PM link Permalink

As blay_paul said, the goal of tatoeba is to do what dictionnaries don't, so to be used in parallel with them, not to replace them. The main reason is that it's no use to create duplicate works, and we prefer to make only one things and make it good, rather than too much things of poor quality/quantity.

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mahdiye mahdiye September 10, 2010 at 12:48 PM September 10, 2010 at 12:48 PM link Permalink

Thanks,i already knew some of this sites!
i didn't express my mean correctly1
i mean smart site,these sites are designed bad!
it doesn't matter for me online dic is to mother tongue!
if a dictionary exist free to download,let me know!

blay_paul blay_paul September 9, 2010 at 3:47 PM September 9, 2010 at 3:47 PM link Permalink

Tried a dictionary? It would probably help if we knew which language you were interested in as well.

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mahdiye mahdiye September 10, 2010 at 10:30 AM September 10, 2010 at 10:30 AM link Permalink

thank you for reply!
i need a prefect dictionary
my mother tongue is Persian.

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blay_paul blay_paul September 10, 2010 at 10:43 AM September 10, 2010 at 10:43 AM link Permalink

I don't know of any perfect dictionary.

Are any of the following any good?

http://www.aryanpour.com/
http://www.math.columbia.edu/~s...asood/cgi-bin/
http://www.farsidic.com/
http://www.farsisites.com/engli...si-dictionary/

blay_paul blay_paul September 9, 2010 at 3:49 PM September 9, 2010 at 3:49 PM link Permalink

Thursday WWWJDIC examples update summary.

36 records deleted.
17 new records.