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[not needed anymore- removed by CK]
Sounds like a very reasonable distinction to make.
I've added "British English spelling" and "Incorre... sorry: "American English spelling" to
Was going to search for some phrases to create these tags on and populate with, but the search engine seems to be down a the moment.
** Thoughts on Tags: Moderators should be helped with clear nice tags, don't they? **
Calling for destruction:
Calling a pen-mate:
Calling for correcting (what?)
Calling for protection:
And it's only what I found...
(All this for suggesting to make some policies on it ;P)
Well, everyone should be helped with nice clean tags. :-)
Many of these can be merged while others are empty and unused and can be deleted.
* @delete should take on "delete" ("delete not a sentence" is empty and can be deleted).
* @moderators and @moderator should be merged (under which is a matter of taste but ultimately unimportant).
* @check could take on "Needs Native Check", "@Needs Native Check" and "to check". Possibly "to be reviewed", too.
> * @check could take on "Needs Native Check", "@Needs Native Check" and "to check".
Not sure I agree with that. The way I look at it, 'Native check' is for sentences that are suspected of sounding odd or being incorrect. 'Check' includes sentences that sound perfectly fine, but are not good translations. So a 'Native check' example doesn't need the checker to know any other languages.
If you feel that there is a use in separating the two, then an "@translation check" tag might be useful to make its use clearer. The current @check tag is used as generally as the name implies (e.g. #400689 ). Neither it nor "to_check" have many or obscure languages, so this wouldn't be difficult to remedy.
Well, I think I prefer to split things.
@check or @change don't mean anything.
Check what? Grammar? Flag? How a sentence sounds natural? If there is a capital letter?
So, I'd prefer to set "@" like "something is wrong", and then:
@grammar (grammar sounds wrong)
@flag (flag is to be changed)
@ponctuation (simple dots missing)
@translations (to verify translations / link-unlink)
@orthography (bad word spelling)
and so on...
We can establish @check as: "I should look on it further, or someone else should read this sentence too", when @Needs Native Check implies that a native person is needed (when who entered the sentence is not a native speaker of the sentence's language)
@moderator(s) is quite useless ^^'
Also, if I see an Arabic sentence with @ponctuation when all comments are in Arabic, I get immediately the problem, even if I don't speak Arabic. It happened many times to re-ask "what's wrong here?" or to ask Muiriel to translate me German comments while there was just a "s" missing.
OK. I'll go along with the proposed tag codification.
Good job, Pharamp!
I'm not sure that a tag will be sufficient to indicate to moderators what needs to be done. Let's say a sentence is tagged with @puncutation and has multiple punctuation mistakes, then a moderator, not proficient in the language may well fix the ones he or she recognises and remove the tag. The same goes for grammar and spelling.
I think @change has a useful purpose in making sure that a problem that has been identified in the comments will eventually be dealt with. All that's needed is for either the owner or a moderator to fix it.
If people want to split @check, then I'm leaning towards the sentence/link split. My rationale is that no matter what is seen as wrong with the sentence, any proficient speaker of that language can deal with it -- and should be able to spot any problem that may exist (whether grammar, spelling or just odd phrasing).
A useful tag for link integrity is a bit tougher as it refers to two or more sentences, but currently we can't tag the links themselves. A simple, low-tech solution would be to have a single "@link check" tag that one could filter by ones strongest language(s) and browse for translations that one felt one could judge as good or bad.
That being said, I think @Needs Native Check and Needs Native Check should just be merged. But yes, I don't agree that they should be associated with @check.
@check seems to be very general and can even include things like wrong language flags and punctuation mistakes. Native check is more specific and thus more efficient. A native speaker simply looks at all the tagged sentences in his/her language and can immediately say whether it's fine or not (without having to worry about all the clutter from @check).
Fair enough, but things like wrong flags and punctuations would be put under @change, no?
I haven't been browsing these tags so I'll defer to you gents for their most efficient usage. Are there still cases you can think of that don't fall under checking sentence accuracy or their links to translations?
Yea, you're right. Those would be under @change.
Oops! Posted wrong link before.
Trying something new.
It occurred to me that having the numbered sentences and the comment system makes this a suitable place for playing around with "Choose Your Own Adventure" type stories.
See following page for details.
Post comments, questions and suggestions here or in the link above.
Please remove "@cburgmer, are you still learning Turkish?" from "What's New"
Parmi les langues mentionnées peut-on trouver le thibétain ?
non nous n'avons pas encore eu de contributeurs dans cette langue. Mais nous serions heureux si tu connaissais un tel contributeur :)
Just don't tell Big Brother, sysko...
Where's the link to the "lists" page gone?
I see the page is still there, but there's no link on the top of the page anymore.
Normaly it's in the dropdown menu browe -> browse by list ?
Ah! Didn't spot that - I don't think I've ever used the
browse link since you redesigned the interface. :-P
Quelles possibilités existent-elles de relier 2 traductions quand on est propriétaire d'aucune des 2 ?
En effet, si A connait la langue 1 mais pas la 2, que B connait la 2 mais pas la 1, comment C, s'il connait les langues 1 et 2 peut-il indiquer qu'une phrase de A correspond à une autre de B ?
les modos peuvents. Lorsque l'historique des ajouts / suppressions de liens seront facilement accessibles, on passera la fonctionnalité à tous les trusted users.
Actuellement, je dois adopter des phrases pour pouvoir les lier. C'est contraignant et pas tellement logique.
Je trouve que la possession du lien et la possession des phrases elles-même devraient constituer deux choses distinctes.
Je peux en effet faire un piètre rédacteur tout en étant à même de détecter une équivalence.
Il existe une façon... (mais je me tais)
Thurday WWWJDIC example update summary.
42 records deleted.
7 new records added.
To the Staatlanders in Senegal. We wish to read the current Djembe nrewsletter.
I really hate to do this, but I think we've come to the stage where some discussion and possibly action is needed.
User boracasli has been very prolific in contributing to Tatoeba in the last few days and currently has some 1245 sentences assigned to him. His enthusiasm is notable and the number of sentences and languages in which he's contributed would be laudable if not for the persistent errors that I and other contributors have identified.
Making mistakes is one thing, but these are persistent and should have been a hint to boracasli that his level of English is hardly "nearly expert" as he indicates on his profile page.
Worse still is the fact that this user has not fixed many of the errors that have been pointed out or responded to comments and messages (I'm assuming I'm not the only one who's tried to contact him privately).
I'd firstly like to request the attention of the community to look through boracasli's contributions as these seem (at least in the languages that I understand) to be somewhat less reliable than the rest of the corpus.
Secondly I'd like to ask the community for their opinion as to the appropriate action, particularly in this case but also in general. Should we consider setting up blocks to get users to pay attention to accepted best common practices. In cases where users seem more interested in adding sentences than ensuring their accuracy, orphaning suspect sentences en masse might do the trick.
I can't think of a good reason to block a user unless they are clearly spamming. The problem with boracasli is that he (or she, but let's assume he's a 'he') doesn't seem to understand properly English (despite what his profile says), or he has deep communication issues, or both.
We would need someone who speaks Turkish to communicate with him and educate him about Tatoeba. It would seem a bit too harsh to completely block him from contributing, because I don't think his intentions are bad. If you're assuming that he really is 12 and he doesn't really understand English, then his behavior makes much more sense...
Anyone interested in learning Turkish? :D
Regarding the problem of him not correcting his mistakes, I think he simply doesn't understand that people are asking him to correct. Because he sometimes corrects them, such as here:
It seems that if you post anything more complicated than that, he will not understand what you want from him (except perhaps when you're pointing out that his sentence has a wrong language).
So let's first try to post only clear simple comments, like "text_with_mistake -> text_corrected", then see how it goes...
> Anyone interested in learning Turkish? :D
By the way, most of the new sentence he has added are very simple and easy to understand, so they're good for people beginning to study Turkish. ;)
As one of the two active Turkic language contributors apart from boracasli, I nominate Demetrius for this job.
I don't agree with this nomination. Turkish is a language spoken in Germany. Since I'm learning German, I will do without Turkish. ;) Plus, I don't like purism, and Turkish people are known for their purism.
I think a person who knows other Turkic language well should start learning Turkish, because it's much easier to pick up a second language when you know a related one. ;)
PM him (her?) in Tatar and see what happens...
Min tatarça BIK naçar belim. My Tatar is not good enough for this. (That's why there are so many Tatar sentences about apples ;)
BTW, you can PM him/her in latinized Uyghur. ;)
You know I *hate* Latinized Uighur...
But it's much easier to copy-paste than Arabic script. :)
BTW, have you seen my comment about qazanda/qazangha?
In any case, Uighur and Turkish are only about 50% similar... That could lead to some interesting communication. Maybe later.
Yes, I saw the comment and replied (right?)
Indeed, there are very many apple-related sentences...
I DO have a $1 "Elementary Turkish" book on my shelf... But no, seriously, there must be a better way of doing this.
IMHO, since it's clear that he is online, but unwilling to change or discuss his sentences, moderators should be given the right to correct them immediately, not waiting for 2 weeks.
Let's not be hasty here... "Clear" and "online" are two words that should rarely be used together in the same sentence.
I like your use of footnotes ;-)...
Personally, I think a mass-tagging, as blay_paul has suggested in another case, would be sufficient. Just @check them and leave it at that. Unfortunately, there aren't any active Turkish contributors on currently to validate his Turkish sentences (though they're *probably* okay). I say @check the ones that people have voiced concern over (notably the English ones, as I understand).
On a side note, I wonder if he's really 12...
> I say @check the ones that people have voiced concern
> over (notably the English ones, as I understand).
I've looked through most of his/her contributions in English, Hindi, Urdu, Mandarin and Cantonese to check for accuracy and have put comments in those sentences that didn't seem right to me. Thankfully, the number of non-Turkish sentences he has submitted is still very low. If he/she has been truthful about Turkish being a native language, we hopefully at least don't have all those Turkish sentences to worry about. However, many of the others need to be corrected or deleted.