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saeb saeb March 12, 2010 March 12, 2010 at 12:48:54 AM UTC link Permalink

There is a formatting issue with Arabic.

Whenever I type a full stop at the end of a sentence it appears at the beginning.

Now, should I just let it appear at the beginning even though it would appear at the end if copied to a word processor?

or Should I put the full stop at the beginning on purpose so it appears at the end when viewed on tatoeba?

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sysko sysko March 12, 2010 March 12, 2010 at 9:06:26 AM UTC link Permalink

http://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/index#message_43

We used to have the issue but I still don't know why, unfortunately it's Tatoeba independant :( but the work around given in the message will fix the problem when it happens

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saeb saeb March 12, 2010 March 12, 2010 at 9:24:47 AM UTC link Permalink

will I need to add &#8207 every time I add sentence?

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sysko sysko March 12, 2010 March 12, 2010 at 9:26:41 AM UTC link Permalink

‏ (with the ; )for sentences which have problems

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saeb saeb March 13, 2010 March 13, 2010 at 4:58:21 PM UTC link Permalink

sysko I give up. It seems I'll have to do that for every sentence I enter...

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sysko sysko March 13, 2010 March 13, 2010 at 7:45:12 PM UTC link Permalink

no problem, I will add in my looong todo list "handle problem with right to left language"

saeb saeb March 12, 2010 March 12, 2010 at 12:09:17 PM UTC link Permalink

merci bcp sysko :)

saeb saeb March 12, 2010 March 12, 2010 at 12:51:43 AM UTC link Permalink

or better yet not bother at all with the full stop...

saeb saeb March 12, 2010 March 12, 2010 at 12:53:52 AM UTC link Permalink

This also happens to all other symbols not followed by text :O

saeb saeb March 11, 2010 March 11, 2010 at 6:41:13 PM UTC link Permalink

I know this might be a stupid question, but what's the percentage that appears to the top right corner of a lot of sentences? err..I mean what is it supposed to indicate?

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blay_paul blay_paul March 11, 2010 March 11, 2010 at 8:08:46 PM UTC link Permalink

I believe it is an indication of how good a match the sentence is for the search used to find it. I have no idea how it is calculated (particularly for searches on Japanese text ;-)

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saeb saeb March 11, 2010 March 11, 2010 at 8:20:07 PM UTC link Permalink

thanks :)

xtofu80 xtofu80 March 9, 2010 March 9, 2010 at 1:43:19 PM UTC link Permalink

I think we should remove requests for error fixes after the error is fixed, because the comments rather confuse people who read the corrected sentences and the outdated comments.

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sysko sysko March 9, 2010 March 9, 2010 at 2:05:37 PM UTC link Permalink

Yep we totally agree with you, that's why we've included possibility to remove comments on sentences, maybe we will in the future permit people to view all their own comments in order to delete more easily

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contour contour March 21, 2010 March 21, 2010 at 11:10:48 PM UTC link Permalink

I don't like just deleting comments like that, it removes history and obscures the workings of the site.
You're left with changes that were directly caused by comments that are no longer there.

I'd rather have the ability to archive the comments by marking them as no longer relevant, and a message like "This sentence has 3 archived comments, click here to show them". Then they wouldn't clutter up the page, but you could still unhide them if you wanted to.

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sysko sysko March 21, 2010 March 21, 2010 at 11:14:09 PM UTC link Permalink

maybe we can imagine a system like wikipedia, comments which are about correction or so will be in a "discussion" page or something like that, and only comments which bring further information about a sentence (for example if there's some important grammar point or if this is a famous quote etc...) will be directly visible from the sentence page

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JimBreen JimBreen March 22, 2010 March 22, 2010 at 11:57:16 PM UTC link Permalink

That's a very good idea. We are planning something like that for the online edit system for JMdict/EDICT.

MUIRIEL MUIRIEL March 10, 2010 March 10, 2010 at 3:31:24 PM UTC link Permalink

don't you think, it's more confusing, when there are comments without context, because someone deleted his comment and someone else didn't delete his comment referring to the first one?!

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xtofu80 xtofu80 March 10, 2010 March 10, 2010 at 4:14:00 PM UTC link Permalink

I would agree to Muriel. I suppose the cleanest way to do this is to allow the sentence owner to delete comments. Thus, after correcting a mistake, he could remove all the outdated comments.

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TRANG TRANG March 10, 2010 March 10, 2010 at 11:16:48 PM UTC link Permalink

Same as Muiriel, I wouldn't feel comfortable letting the sentence owner deleting the comments. Having a moderator or admin delete your comment can be tolerable because they are people who (are supposed to) know the rules, who know how things work, and wouldn't be deleting things that should have been kept. But a simple user, even if it wasn't a bad intention, can end up deleting important things.

Anyway, one of the things we have thought of is to have some sort of "public notes" associated to each sentence. These notes can be edited by everyone and would only contain essential information for the learners.

People can then say whatever they want in the comments. And whenever there's something worth noting, then someone can write in on the notes.
When you will browse a sentence, the comments will not appear below it anymore. Instead, the public notes will be displayed.

That's the basic idea but don't expect to have that implemented anytime soon though. I think for at least six months, the members will have to organize themselves as they can with the comments...

As far as I'm concerned, I'm fine with deleting comments like "There's an 's' missing" when the mistake has been corrected. But well, I'm certainly not going to hunt for those... It wouldn't not a very productive way to spend my time ^^; I think everyone can be self-responsible and take care of deleting their own comments when it is appropriate to do so. You can always try to write private messages to people, to ask them to delete a certain comment they posted.

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xtofu80 xtofu80 March 11, 2010 March 11, 2010 at 12:34:17 PM UTC link Permalink

Comments on grammar and expression might be helpful, but only if the original sentence was visible at that time.
Comments about a sentence which has already be changed are confusing. So either there should be a "sentence stamp" showing the sentence at the time the comment was made, or we have to include the sentence in our comment if we want to write something "noteworthy" which should be kept for a longer time.

MUIRIEL MUIRIEL March 10, 2010 March 10, 2010 at 4:59:44 PM UTC link Permalink

that would allow censorship :S.

lilygilder lilygilder March 10, 2010 March 10, 2010 at 9:04:01 PM UTC link Permalink

Most comments about wrong spelling do only take up space, so it would look "cleaner" if they were removed after the sentence is corrected. But I think comments about expressions or grammar can still be helpful to users even after the sentence is corrected.

TRANG TRANG March 9, 2010 March 9, 2010 at 5:29:41 PM UTC link Permalink

You have time and patience, you can always browse through the whole list of comments and send me a private message to indicate the comments that you feel should be deleted...

Or at least, you can search for your own outdated comments and delete them.

blay_paul blay_paul March 11, 2010 March 11, 2010 at 12:59:16 PM UTC link Permalink

I don't think the comment stuff is such a big deal. The sentence log shows previous versions anyway and I don't think it's that difficult to work out that old comments may no longer apply.

saeb saeb March 10, 2010 March 10, 2010 at 6:21:20 PM UTC link Permalink

Is there a way to extract sentences of a certain language? any plans in the works? How about exporting to anki or iKnow...or importing?

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saeb saeb March 10, 2010 March 10, 2010 at 7:04:15 PM UTC link Permalink

How about deleting sentences or translations (at least your own sentences)?

I've got this problem where I add a translation and three copies of the very same translation get added, happened twice. Don't get it. What should I do now?

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TRANG TRANG March 10, 2010 March 10, 2010 at 10:23:16 PM UTC link Permalink

Don't worry about duplicate sentences. They will get deleted, eventually, by a script that cleans up the database from duplicates.

Also, if no one has translated your duplicate sentences, you can always replace them by another sentence. But only if no one has translated them (otherwise you will make their translations "wrong").

I know it may be a bit frustrating not to be able to delete your sentences, but like sysko said, we have a lot of things to do but not a lot of time, and deleting sentences is not really the most urgent feature ^^' You'll have to bear with us.

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saeb saeb March 10, 2010 March 10, 2010 at 11:50:28 PM UTC link Permalink

You guys are doing a great job. I just hope to see this project grow into something much bigger that everyone can benefit from.

sysko sysko March 10, 2010 March 10, 2010 at 8:45:55 PM UTC link Permalink

except the files in the download section, no you don't have a way to generate yourself a list

for relation with anki, as I also daily use it, I really want to have a way to exchange data between anki/tatoeba, the problem is here is about time rather than "we don't want", it's just as we're a small small team, and we all do this on our spare time, so it's hard to find time to do everything.

btw, if we were to create something like, how would you like it ?

*a plugin in anki to search for example sentences for particulars words ? (I mean in a field you have your words, and when validating you, it popup some sentences of tatoeba containing this word)
*a plugin to sync your anki sentence deck with tatoeba ? (for example 2 fields , each with a sentence in a language which is the translation of the other, and to able to access them from tatoeba, and from anki if you correct it here ?

other ?

If you or you know someone who are willing to help us creating such a plugin (either by propose idea or with programming skill) don't hesitate :)

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Wolf Wolf March 10, 2010 March 10, 2010 at 10:05:15 PM UTC link Permalink

Funny thing... some days ago I _have_ written a plugin for anki that shows example sentences and their translations for my japanese vocabulary. I am currently in the final testing/optimizing stage and hope to release it somewhere around next week.

It uses the index lines to identify example sentences, so at the moment it works with Japanese only. Handling other languages would be a bit more difficult without some kind of index data (e.g. to find example sentences that contain an inflected form of the word you are studying)

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sysko sysko March 10, 2010 March 10, 2010 at 10:17:24 PM UTC link Permalink

lucene project already handle this project, and it seems it can be embedded quite easily (but it require a jvm)

by the way are you interested in helping us with a "tatoeba for anki" plugin ? we can provide an api for tatoeba that you can easily use with anki, you tell us what kind of data you send and what kind of data you want to receive and we will see what can do

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Wolf Wolf March 11, 2010 March 11, 2010 at 8:45:03 AM UTC link Permalink

Sounds interesting, I will contact you later with some questions :)

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sysko sysko March 11, 2010 March 11, 2010 at 9:22:47 AM UTC link Permalink

ok no problem, my email allan.simon at supinfo dot com

MUIRIEL MUIRIEL March 7, 2010 March 7, 2010 at 9:44:26 AM UTC link Permalink

Great updates :)!!!

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cburgmer cburgmer March 7, 2010 March 7, 2010 at 10:07:32 AM UTC link Permalink

+1 :)

TRANG TRANG March 9, 2010 March 9, 2010 at 9:19:48 PM UTC link Permalink

+1 :D

sysko sysko March 9, 2010 March 9, 2010 at 10:27:31 PM UTC link Permalink

hope you will love the next ones too ^^

Hautis Hautis January 31, 2010 January 31, 2010 at 10:05:39 AM UTC link Permalink

Hi, I spotted a small bug in the list which you get when searching for "Example sentences with the words:".

When giving a new version of the original language, this sentence appears "Are you sure you want to translate this sentence into a sentence in the same language?", but I cannot click on the OK-button. In other views it works fine.

I use the latest Firefox on Mac OS X.

Cheers.

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TRANG TRANG March 9, 2010 March 9, 2010 at 9:33:13 PM UTC link Permalink

This problem should not happen anymore :) We simply took out the "same language" warning because it is no more useful.

xtofu80 xtofu80 March 8, 2010 March 8, 2010 at 4:16:41 PM UTC link Permalink

A general question about Chinese:
Is there a policy regarding simplified and traditional Hanzi?
I just found a sentence (nº346168) with traditional Hanzi posted by someone from Hongkong. So far the "policy" seems to be that both scripts will be put under the same category. This might be a burden for people learning the language who do not recognize the differences.

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sysko sysko March 8, 2010 March 8, 2010 at 4:27:39 PM UTC link Permalink

the plan is to specifiy the script in the information of the sentence, and to give the possibility to switch from one script to another while seing the sentence

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xtofu80 xtofu80 March 8, 2010 March 8, 2010 at 11:17:18 PM UTC link Permalink

That would be really awesome if you could implement this.

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sysko sysko March 9, 2010 March 9, 2010 at 10:28:51 PM UTC link Permalink

Yep I will try to do this ASAP, as a chinese learner, it's also something I want for a long time ^^

sysko sysko March 20, 2010 March 20, 2010 at 10:46:37 PM UTC link Permalink

implemented :)
now chinese sentence have a 汉 picture when it is "simplified" and 漢 when it's traditional moreover in addition of pinyin, the equivalent of the sentence in the other script (in traditional for a simplified sentence) is also displayed

http://tatoeba.org/eng/tools/index

new tools for chinese has also been added :)

it's just a draft, so if there's something missing, or if you say some possible improvement, tell me and i will include them ;-)

blay_paul blay_paul March 6, 2010 March 6, 2010 at 7:26:24 PM UTC link Permalink

Advice for those leaving corrections in comments.

I strongly suggest you 'favorite' any sentences that you leave corrections for so you can check whether they are actually corrected or not.

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sysko sysko March 6, 2010 March 6, 2010 at 7:53:19 PM UTC link Permalink

good suggestion

xtofu80 xtofu80 March 6, 2010 March 6, 2010 at 4:25:01 PM UTC link Permalink

Does anyone else have problem with the updated version as well?
I use Ubuntu 9,10 with firefox 3.5.8, and since the update today, I cannot add new sentences. For each sentence I see this turning circle on the left (before I saw it only when I edited the sentence), and pressing "submit translation" does not seem to work.

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TRANG TRANG March 6, 2010 March 6, 2010 at 5:02:27 PM UTC link Permalink

Ah, well try doing CTRL+F5 on the homepage (or any page where you systematically see the loading animation when it shouldn't be there).

The problem is that your browser is still displaying from an old CSS file, and so the layout will look strange. You have to force Firefox to update its cache.

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blay_paul blay_paul March 6, 2010 March 6, 2010 at 5:14:26 PM UTC link Permalink

That fixed it, thanks.

sysko sysko March 6, 2010 March 6, 2010 at 6:21:37 PM UTC link Permalink

yep this time the problem come from firefox
we will try to figure out, how to force Firefox to update its cache without needing an intervention from the user

lilygilder lilygilder March 6, 2010 March 6, 2010 at 4:56:37 PM UTC link Permalink

Yeah, me too. I work with Vista and Firefox 3.5.7 and can't submit any translations either.

blay_paul blay_paul March 6, 2010 March 6, 2010 at 4:57:15 PM UTC link Permalink

I suspect some sort of database glitch. I'd give TRANG and sysko an while to fix it before worrying too much.

blay_paul blay_paul February 28, 2010 February 28, 2010 at 10:29:25 AM UTC link Permalink

Favourite'd sentences not working.

I set a number of sentences as 'favourite', but when I use the link in my account page it says "This user does not have any favorites."

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sysko sysko March 6, 2010 March 6, 2010 at 4:05:43 PM UTC link Permalink

Tatoeba has been updated, this bug should have been fixed by now

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xtofu80 xtofu80 March 9, 2010 March 9, 2010 at 7:58:16 PM UTC link Permalink

I can only see the first ten favourite sentences. The other sentences are not accessible, as far as I see.

sysko sysko February 28, 2010 February 28, 2010 at 12:19:44 PM UTC link Permalink

Yep the issue has been fixed and will re-work in next release, which should not be long know, sorry to make you wait