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saeb saeb March 13, 2010 March 13, 2010 at 5:34:18 PM UTC link Permalink

1000+ sentences in arabic.

I'd like 2 thank everyone that has ever thanked everyone. On behalf of all of us you've thanked I say thank u for thanking us.

lol dane cook is brilliant :D

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MUIRIEL MUIRIEL March 14, 2010 March 14, 2010 at 11:51:42 AM UTC link Permalink

:D thank you^^.

saeb saeb March 13, 2010 March 13, 2010 at 5:30:57 PM UTC link Permalink

I believe in ghosts. I believe in aliens. But theres no way u will ever persuade me into believing in alien ghosts. Ridiculous.

I believe in the sentence method. I believe in language websites. But theres no way u will ever persuade me into believing in sentence websites. Ridiculous

yay! first tatoeba joke :P (hmm I wonder if I can consider this a wall abuse..)

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saeb saeb March 13, 2010 March 13, 2010 at 5:49:21 PM UTC link Permalink

TRANG says:

omg you're so funny, stop "abusing" the wall :D

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TRANG TRANG March 14, 2010 March 14, 2010 at 12:04:42 PM UTC link Permalink

I should just mention I never said that :P
But I do think it. Well, especially the "abusing the wall" part, because now I'm working on figuring out how to paginate this wall. Certainly there will be more abuse.

TRANG TRANG March 13, 2010 March 13, 2010 at 12:17:34 PM UTC link Permalink

Just wanted to let everyone know, Tatoeba has been updated.

http://blog.tatoeba.org/2010/03...13th-2010.html

Enjoy :)

saeb saeb March 13, 2010 March 13, 2010 at 2:38:49 AM UTC link Permalink

*shock* just figured out TRANG is a she, he he.

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TRANG TRANG March 13, 2010 March 13, 2010 at 12:15:41 PM UTC link Permalink

Ah, who told on me, that was supposed to be a secret.

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saeb saeb March 13, 2010 March 13, 2010 at 12:45:30 PM UTC link Permalink

lol, I never said this before but I actually stalked this website for quite a while before I finally decided to join, and I always imagined that you'd be like these programmers who like anime and have studied japanese for 5 yrs in their university..you know..with a cool blog about every obsessive detail of their life...and eyeglasses...you know the whole shabang... :D

P.S. guys like that do really exist :D

saeb saeb March 13, 2010 March 13, 2010 at 1:30:16 AM UTC link Permalink

@blay_paul
There's a lot of english sentences that are grammatically correct but I don't think anyone will ever say them, use them, or even see them in any english media...you know they're just "out of this world". What do you think we should do with these? Should we just ignore them for the moment, and focus on those that are totally wrong?

my take is, I'm gonna stay away from translating these and stop reporting them as wrong. I'm just hoping arabic natives can use sentences I'm translating to learn english.

what do you guys think? trang? sysko?

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blay_paul blay_paul March 13, 2010 March 13, 2010 at 8:53:55 AM UTC link Permalink

> There's a lot of english sentences that are grammatically
> correct but I don't think anyone will ever say them, use
> them, or even see them in any english media.

I think that it's more correct to say "any _current_ English media". The Tanaka corpus is old, and it used even older sources of sentences. Quite a few of them would not be out of place in books published before 1940, but are rather confusing to those of us in 2010.

I think those that are old-fashioned or highly idiomatic should be kept as demonstrating historical usage but should not be used as guides to writing English (or for translating into English). I think they are good candidates for an [Old-fashioned] tag or something. ;-)

Another problem is those that are written like dictionary entries (lots of 'one' usage) and those that are not really whole sentences. I think these are worth improving, as time permits, but are probably not a high priority for translation into other languages.

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sysko sysko March 13, 2010 March 13, 2010 at 4:27:28 PM UTC link Permalink

I agree to tag them in the future as "old fashioned" "40's english" "book-style" etc... rather than just "modernize"/"oralize" them

xtofu80 xtofu80 March 12, 2010 March 12, 2010 at 12:22:53 PM UTC link Permalink

I am not sure how promising this is, but there is a Japanese-German sentence database hosted by the University of Hiroshima (Katsumi Iwasaki). It seems to have been created in 2004, without major updates since then. Maybe there could be a collaboration with tatoeba, thus increasing the number of sentence pairs. Of course, I am not sure about whether they want to publish the corpus, I am especially unfamiliar with data policies in Japan.

Here are the links to the search engine, the data description and the researcher's website:
http://www.vu.hiroshima-u.ac.jp/deutsch/index.php
http://home.hiroshima-u.ac.jp/k...a/database.htm
http://home.hiroshima-u.ac.jp/katsuiwa/

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saeb saeb March 12, 2010 March 12, 2010 at 11:07:13 PM UTC link Permalink

And there's one also for spanish, I think it's free:

http://sentences.spanish-only.com/

Maybe there could be a collaboration with tatoeba with that too :)

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sysko sysko March 13, 2010 March 13, 2010 at 4:11:09 PM UTC link Permalink

for the spanish, yep I need to contact the guy for a long time, but hmmm never find the motivation to write a email :blush: I will try to do so, I promise

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saeb saeb March 13, 2010 March 13, 2010 at 5:10:41 PM UTC link Permalink

you can do it sysko! :)=)

blay_paul blay_paul March 11, 2010 March 11, 2010 at 6:38:05 PM UTC link Permalink

Some more suggestions.

I know that time is limited, so I shall try to keep a high ratio of usefulness to time required to implement. ;-)

1. Add a prominent link from the Tatoeba Project home page to the Tatoeba Project Blog. Actually I think it's worth adding a "Links" item to the list of headings on the top of the page. Useful links would include popular dictionaries, language sites, and sites that host collections of sentences.

2. Wish list. Maybe best as a blog article? I think it would be nice to have an idea of what features are planned, how likely they are to be implemented and how soon. Users could comment on possible features and suggest new ones.

3. Active dictionary links. This would be a long term and high effort suggestion but I think it would be useful to have active linking available from words in example sentences. Some languages (Japanese, Chinese) would require more effort than others, but I think it would be well worth it in the long run.

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TRANG TRANG March 12, 2010 March 12, 2010 at 6:49:18 PM UTC link Permalink

1. Like sysko said, the top menu has reached its limits. Someone with a 20 characters username (which I think is the maximum length) and using the French interface... might actually not even "fit" up there if (s)he's a Linux user... Something we'll have to check.
What I can do for now though, is to have a link to the blog from the "What's new" (along with the Twitter link). And in the blog, there's a "Links" section which only has Tatoeba, but I can add other things.

2. You will have more hints on what we are working on in the next blog post. I can't be writing about everything we have in mind because there are just so many things. But I can at least mention what's planned for the next few weeks :)

3. This is actually not very easy to implement because each sentence itself is already a link, and clicking on it leads to the page where you can see the comments and the logs. But I agree that it would be definitely useful.

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blay_paul blay_paul March 12, 2010 March 12, 2010 at 8:18:01 PM UTC link Permalink

> This is actually not very easy to implement because each
> sentence itself is already a link, and clicking on it
> leads to the page where you can see the comments and the
> logs.

Yeah, I thought about that. What you could do, though, is implement the links in 'tooltip' style windows. For Japanese it could look rather like ...

   /成る(する)
何をしていますか。

click on 成る(する) to get the full dictionary entry in a separate window / tab.

sysko sysko March 11, 2010 March 11, 2010 at 6:55:20 PM UTC link Permalink

1 - in french version and also regarding to ergonomic issue, 7 items is already a maximum numbers, but in the same time I agree it will be better to have the links in more visible place, but what if we add a wiki, "dialogs" and so ? So I think it need us to review what is needed, where, and to make is as much pratical as possible, I don't really the top menu to be over bloated (but who wants ^^)

2 - In a first time yep it can be a temporary solution waiting a wiki (after finishing all the "small issue" I makke it my 1st priority)

3 - For chinese, adso (which is definitely my swiss army knife for chinese) give th possibility to segment a chinese sentences into "words", at least consistant n-grams, so it would not be "so" difficult, and I'm sure such tool exist also for japanese

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blay_paul blay_paul March 11, 2010 March 11, 2010 at 8:06:45 PM UTC link Permalink

> I'm sure such tool exist also for japanese

It does, but it's not 100% accurate. In any case this is the primary reason for the existence of the 'index' data for Japanese sentences.

saeb saeb March 11, 2010 March 11, 2010 at 8:32:55 PM UTC link Permalink

I think that commenting on English sentences that do not sound right is very inefficient since there's a load of them. so...I created a list where everyone can dump them into for native speakers to correct.

http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences_lists/edit/29

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TRANG TRANG March 12, 2010 March 12, 2010 at 6:11:05 PM UTC link Permalink

Yes, I think once a sentence has been corrected, it should be removed from the list. Otherwise you would end up with a very long list...

Anyway, this is a good initiative! The only problem is that this list won't have a lot of visibility (for now), contrary to posting a comment, because the latest comments are displayed on the homepage.

So until we have time to do something about it, what you can do, I guess, is to contact other members who are native English speakers, and ask them if they could help with those sentences.

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saeb saeb March 13, 2010 March 13, 2010 at 1:37:33 AM UTC link Permalink

true, will do both then...

I just hope it doesn't look like I'm hijacking the homepage :D

saeb saeb March 11, 2010 March 11, 2010 at 9:11:30 PM UTC link Permalink

Any suggestions on what to do with sentences that have been corrected, commented on, etc.. shall I just remove them from the list to keep it clean? (I think everyone should just correct them directly and then remove them from the list...)

saeb saeb March 12, 2010 March 12, 2010 at 12:48:54 AM UTC link Permalink

There is a formatting issue with Arabic.

Whenever I type a full stop at the end of a sentence it appears at the beginning.

Now, should I just let it appear at the beginning even though it would appear at the end if copied to a word processor?

or Should I put the full stop at the beginning on purpose so it appears at the end when viewed on tatoeba?

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sysko sysko March 12, 2010 March 12, 2010 at 9:06:26 AM UTC link Permalink

http://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/index#message_43

We used to have the issue but I still don't know why, unfortunately it's Tatoeba independant :( but the work around given in the message will fix the problem when it happens

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saeb saeb March 12, 2010 March 12, 2010 at 9:24:47 AM UTC link Permalink

will I need to add &#8207 every time I add sentence?

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sysko sysko March 12, 2010 March 12, 2010 at 9:26:41 AM UTC link Permalink

‏ (with the ; )for sentences which have problems

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saeb saeb March 13, 2010 March 13, 2010 at 4:58:21 PM UTC link Permalink

sysko I give up. It seems I'll have to do that for every sentence I enter...

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sysko sysko March 13, 2010 March 13, 2010 at 7:45:12 PM UTC link Permalink

no problem, I will add in my looong todo list "handle problem with right to left language"

saeb saeb March 12, 2010 March 12, 2010 at 12:09:17 PM UTC link Permalink

merci bcp sysko :)

saeb saeb March 12, 2010 March 12, 2010 at 12:51:43 AM UTC link Permalink

or better yet not bother at all with the full stop...

saeb saeb March 12, 2010 March 12, 2010 at 12:53:52 AM UTC link Permalink

This also happens to all other symbols not followed by text :O

saeb saeb March 11, 2010 March 11, 2010 at 6:41:13 PM UTC link Permalink

I know this might be a stupid question, but what's the percentage that appears to the top right corner of a lot of sentences? err..I mean what is it supposed to indicate?

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blay_paul blay_paul March 11, 2010 March 11, 2010 at 8:08:46 PM UTC link Permalink

I believe it is an indication of how good a match the sentence is for the search used to find it. I have no idea how it is calculated (particularly for searches on Japanese text ;-)

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saeb saeb March 11, 2010 March 11, 2010 at 8:20:07 PM UTC link Permalink

thanks :)