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xtofu80 xtofu80 March 9, 2010 March 9, 2010 at 1:43:19 PM UTC link Permalink

I think we should remove requests for error fixes after the error is fixed, because the comments rather confuse people who read the corrected sentences and the outdated comments.

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sysko sysko March 9, 2010 March 9, 2010 at 2:05:37 PM UTC link Permalink

Yep we totally agree with you, that's why we've included possibility to remove comments on sentences, maybe we will in the future permit people to view all their own comments in order to delete more easily

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contour contour March 21, 2010 March 21, 2010 at 11:10:48 PM UTC link Permalink

I don't like just deleting comments like that, it removes history and obscures the workings of the site.
You're left with changes that were directly caused by comments that are no longer there.

I'd rather have the ability to archive the comments by marking them as no longer relevant, and a message like "This sentence has 3 archived comments, click here to show them". Then they wouldn't clutter up the page, but you could still unhide them if you wanted to.

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sysko sysko March 21, 2010 March 21, 2010 at 11:14:09 PM UTC link Permalink

maybe we can imagine a system like wikipedia, comments which are about correction or so will be in a "discussion" page or something like that, and only comments which bring further information about a sentence (for example if there's some important grammar point or if this is a famous quote etc...) will be directly visible from the sentence page

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JimBreen JimBreen March 22, 2010 March 22, 2010 at 11:57:16 PM UTC link Permalink

That's a very good idea. We are planning something like that for the online edit system for JMdict/EDICT.

MUIRIEL MUIRIEL March 10, 2010 March 10, 2010 at 3:31:24 PM UTC link Permalink

don't you think, it's more confusing, when there are comments without context, because someone deleted his comment and someone else didn't delete his comment referring to the first one?!

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xtofu80 xtofu80 March 10, 2010 March 10, 2010 at 4:14:00 PM UTC link Permalink

I would agree to Muriel. I suppose the cleanest way to do this is to allow the sentence owner to delete comments. Thus, after correcting a mistake, he could remove all the outdated comments.

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TRANG TRANG March 10, 2010 March 10, 2010 at 11:16:48 PM UTC link Permalink

Same as Muiriel, I wouldn't feel comfortable letting the sentence owner deleting the comments. Having a moderator or admin delete your comment can be tolerable because they are people who (are supposed to) know the rules, who know how things work, and wouldn't be deleting things that should have been kept. But a simple user, even if it wasn't a bad intention, can end up deleting important things.

Anyway, one of the things we have thought of is to have some sort of "public notes" associated to each sentence. These notes can be edited by everyone and would only contain essential information for the learners.

People can then say whatever they want in the comments. And whenever there's something worth noting, then someone can write in on the notes.
When you will browse a sentence, the comments will not appear below it anymore. Instead, the public notes will be displayed.

That's the basic idea but don't expect to have that implemented anytime soon though. I think for at least six months, the members will have to organize themselves as they can with the comments...

As far as I'm concerned, I'm fine with deleting comments like "There's an 's' missing" when the mistake has been corrected. But well, I'm certainly not going to hunt for those... It wouldn't not a very productive way to spend my time ^^; I think everyone can be self-responsible and take care of deleting their own comments when it is appropriate to do so. You can always try to write private messages to people, to ask them to delete a certain comment they posted.

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xtofu80 xtofu80 March 11, 2010 March 11, 2010 at 12:34:17 PM UTC link Permalink

Comments on grammar and expression might be helpful, but only if the original sentence was visible at that time.
Comments about a sentence which has already be changed are confusing. So either there should be a "sentence stamp" showing the sentence at the time the comment was made, or we have to include the sentence in our comment if we want to write something "noteworthy" which should be kept for a longer time.

MUIRIEL MUIRIEL March 10, 2010 March 10, 2010 at 4:59:44 PM UTC link Permalink

that would allow censorship :S.

lilygilder lilygilder March 10, 2010 March 10, 2010 at 9:04:01 PM UTC link Permalink

Most comments about wrong spelling do only take up space, so it would look "cleaner" if they were removed after the sentence is corrected. But I think comments about expressions or grammar can still be helpful to users even after the sentence is corrected.

TRANG TRANG March 9, 2010 March 9, 2010 at 5:29:41 PM UTC link Permalink

You have time and patience, you can always browse through the whole list of comments and send me a private message to indicate the comments that you feel should be deleted...

Or at least, you can search for your own outdated comments and delete them.

blay_paul blay_paul March 11, 2010 March 11, 2010 at 12:59:16 PM UTC link Permalink

I don't think the comment stuff is such a big deal. The sentence log shows previous versions anyway and I don't think it's that difficult to work out that old comments may no longer apply.

saeb saeb March 10, 2010 March 10, 2010 at 6:21:20 PM UTC link Permalink

Is there a way to extract sentences of a certain language? any plans in the works? How about exporting to anki or iKnow...or importing?

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saeb saeb March 10, 2010 March 10, 2010 at 7:04:15 PM UTC link Permalink

How about deleting sentences or translations (at least your own sentences)?

I've got this problem where I add a translation and three copies of the very same translation get added, happened twice. Don't get it. What should I do now?

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TRANG TRANG March 10, 2010 March 10, 2010 at 10:23:16 PM UTC link Permalink

Don't worry about duplicate sentences. They will get deleted, eventually, by a script that cleans up the database from duplicates.

Also, if no one has translated your duplicate sentences, you can always replace them by another sentence. But only if no one has translated them (otherwise you will make their translations "wrong").

I know it may be a bit frustrating not to be able to delete your sentences, but like sysko said, we have a lot of things to do but not a lot of time, and deleting sentences is not really the most urgent feature ^^' You'll have to bear with us.

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saeb saeb March 10, 2010 March 10, 2010 at 11:50:28 PM UTC link Permalink

You guys are doing a great job. I just hope to see this project grow into something much bigger that everyone can benefit from.

sysko sysko March 10, 2010 March 10, 2010 at 8:45:55 PM UTC link Permalink

except the files in the download section, no you don't have a way to generate yourself a list

for relation with anki, as I also daily use it, I really want to have a way to exchange data between anki/tatoeba, the problem is here is about time rather than "we don't want", it's just as we're a small small team, and we all do this on our spare time, so it's hard to find time to do everything.

btw, if we were to create something like, how would you like it ?

*a plugin in anki to search for example sentences for particulars words ? (I mean in a field you have your words, and when validating you, it popup some sentences of tatoeba containing this word)
*a plugin to sync your anki sentence deck with tatoeba ? (for example 2 fields , each with a sentence in a language which is the translation of the other, and to able to access them from tatoeba, and from anki if you correct it here ?

other ?

If you or you know someone who are willing to help us creating such a plugin (either by propose idea or with programming skill) don't hesitate :)

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Wolf Wolf March 10, 2010 March 10, 2010 at 10:05:15 PM UTC link Permalink

Funny thing... some days ago I _have_ written a plugin for anki that shows example sentences and their translations for my japanese vocabulary. I am currently in the final testing/optimizing stage and hope to release it somewhere around next week.

It uses the index lines to identify example sentences, so at the moment it works with Japanese only. Handling other languages would be a bit more difficult without some kind of index data (e.g. to find example sentences that contain an inflected form of the word you are studying)

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sysko sysko March 10, 2010 March 10, 2010 at 10:17:24 PM UTC link Permalink

lucene project already handle this project, and it seems it can be embedded quite easily (but it require a jvm)

by the way are you interested in helping us with a "tatoeba for anki" plugin ? we can provide an api for tatoeba that you can easily use with anki, you tell us what kind of data you send and what kind of data you want to receive and we will see what can do

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Wolf Wolf March 11, 2010 March 11, 2010 at 8:45:03 AM UTC link Permalink

Sounds interesting, I will contact you later with some questions :)

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sysko sysko March 11, 2010 March 11, 2010 at 9:22:47 AM UTC link Permalink

ok no problem, my email allan.simon at supinfo dot com

MUIRIEL MUIRIEL March 7, 2010 March 7, 2010 at 9:44:26 AM UTC link Permalink

Great updates :)!!!

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cburgmer cburgmer March 7, 2010 March 7, 2010 at 10:07:32 AM UTC link Permalink

+1 :)

TRANG TRANG March 9, 2010 March 9, 2010 at 9:19:48 PM UTC link Permalink

+1 :D

sysko sysko March 9, 2010 March 9, 2010 at 10:27:31 PM UTC link Permalink

hope you will love the next ones too ^^

Hautis Hautis January 31, 2010 January 31, 2010 at 10:05:39 AM UTC link Permalink

Hi, I spotted a small bug in the list which you get when searching for "Example sentences with the words:".

When giving a new version of the original language, this sentence appears "Are you sure you want to translate this sentence into a sentence in the same language?", but I cannot click on the OK-button. In other views it works fine.

I use the latest Firefox on Mac OS X.

Cheers.

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TRANG TRANG March 9, 2010 March 9, 2010 at 9:33:13 PM UTC link Permalink

This problem should not happen anymore :) We simply took out the "same language" warning because it is no more useful.

xtofu80 xtofu80 March 8, 2010 March 8, 2010 at 4:16:41 PM UTC link Permalink

A general question about Chinese:
Is there a policy regarding simplified and traditional Hanzi?
I just found a sentence (nº346168) with traditional Hanzi posted by someone from Hongkong. So far the "policy" seems to be that both scripts will be put under the same category. This might be a burden for people learning the language who do not recognize the differences.

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sysko sysko March 8, 2010 March 8, 2010 at 4:27:39 PM UTC link Permalink

the plan is to specifiy the script in the information of the sentence, and to give the possibility to switch from one script to another while seing the sentence

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xtofu80 xtofu80 March 8, 2010 March 8, 2010 at 11:17:18 PM UTC link Permalink

That would be really awesome if you could implement this.

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sysko sysko March 9, 2010 March 9, 2010 at 10:28:51 PM UTC link Permalink

Yep I will try to do this ASAP, as a chinese learner, it's also something I want for a long time ^^

sysko sysko March 20, 2010 March 20, 2010 at 10:46:37 PM UTC link Permalink

implemented :)
now chinese sentence have a 汉 picture when it is "simplified" and 漢 when it's traditional moreover in addition of pinyin, the equivalent of the sentence in the other script (in traditional for a simplified sentence) is also displayed

http://tatoeba.org/eng/tools/index

new tools for chinese has also been added :)

it's just a draft, so if there's something missing, or if you say some possible improvement, tell me and i will include them ;-)

blay_paul blay_paul March 6, 2010 March 6, 2010 at 7:26:24 PM UTC link Permalink

Advice for those leaving corrections in comments.

I strongly suggest you 'favorite' any sentences that you leave corrections for so you can check whether they are actually corrected or not.

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sysko sysko March 6, 2010 March 6, 2010 at 7:53:19 PM UTC link Permalink

good suggestion

xtofu80 xtofu80 March 6, 2010 March 6, 2010 at 4:25:01 PM UTC link Permalink

Does anyone else have problem with the updated version as well?
I use Ubuntu 9,10 with firefox 3.5.8, and since the update today, I cannot add new sentences. For each sentence I see this turning circle on the left (before I saw it only when I edited the sentence), and pressing "submit translation" does not seem to work.

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TRANG TRANG March 6, 2010 March 6, 2010 at 5:02:27 PM UTC link Permalink

Ah, well try doing CTRL+F5 on the homepage (or any page where you systematically see the loading animation when it shouldn't be there).

The problem is that your browser is still displaying from an old CSS file, and so the layout will look strange. You have to force Firefox to update its cache.

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blay_paul blay_paul March 6, 2010 March 6, 2010 at 5:14:26 PM UTC link Permalink

That fixed it, thanks.

sysko sysko March 6, 2010 March 6, 2010 at 6:21:37 PM UTC link Permalink

yep this time the problem come from firefox
we will try to figure out, how to force Firefox to update its cache without needing an intervention from the user

lilygilder lilygilder March 6, 2010 March 6, 2010 at 4:56:37 PM UTC link Permalink

Yeah, me too. I work with Vista and Firefox 3.5.7 and can't submit any translations either.

blay_paul blay_paul March 6, 2010 March 6, 2010 at 4:57:15 PM UTC link Permalink

I suspect some sort of database glitch. I'd give TRANG and sysko an while to fix it before worrying too much.

blay_paul blay_paul February 28, 2010 February 28, 2010 at 10:29:25 AM UTC link Permalink

Favourite'd sentences not working.

I set a number of sentences as 'favourite', but when I use the link in my account page it says "This user does not have any favorites."

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sysko sysko March 6, 2010 March 6, 2010 at 4:05:43 PM UTC link Permalink

Tatoeba has been updated, this bug should have been fixed by now

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xtofu80 xtofu80 March 9, 2010 March 9, 2010 at 7:58:16 PM UTC link Permalink

I can only see the first ten favourite sentences. The other sentences are not accessible, as far as I see.

sysko sysko February 28, 2010 February 28, 2010 at 12:19:44 PM UTC link Permalink

Yep the issue has been fixed and will re-work in next release, which should not be long know, sorry to make you wait

xtofu80 xtofu80 March 4, 2010 March 4, 2010 at 12:21:03 PM UTC link Permalink

I found some incorrect sentences linked together, but don't know how to resolve the problem:
Sentence nº313285 "no-smoking area" is correctly translated in
Sentence nº90428 as "禁煙区域" but incorrectly in
Sentence nº90427 as "禁猟区", which means no-fishing zone, or no-hunting zone.

The best solution would be to cut the link between nº313285 and nº90427. Or should I delete nº90427 and add it again as the correct translation of my German sentence about the hunting zone?
Greetings

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blay_paul blay_paul March 4, 2010 March 4, 2010 at 12:35:11 PM UTC link Permalink

I think the Japanese sentence with 禁猟区 is a kind of typo and I suggested it be deleted. I added a new pair of sentences for 禁猟区 to replace it.

If you think the German sentence is worth keeping then you can do so, but I think the Japanese version was a bit odd.

Nemo Nemo March 1, 2010 March 1, 2010 at 3:54:10 AM UTC link Permalink

I've looked through a lot of contributions, and I've come to the realization that there are a LOT of contributions in English made by non-native speakers. I assume the same is the case for other languages, especially Japanese. There needs to be some sort of indicator for each sentence on whether or not the last editor was a native speaker. I've seen a lot of English sentences that are perfectly grammatical, with no errors at all, that I have never in my entire life heard someone utter -- correct or not, a native speaker would never say them.

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sysko sysko March 1, 2010 March 1, 2010 at 9:05:58 AM UTC link Permalink

As the major part of both japanase and english come from the tanaka corpus, I can understand that the english is not really reliable, but for most of others language, Spanish, German, Polish, Chinese, I can say that for these languages 99% has been added by native

I agree we need a way to precise if the sentence has been added or reviewed by a native, we're currently thinking about a nice way to do that, maybe something to tag some sentences as "trust"

anyway for the moment one can assume that sentences which belong to someone are much more reliable than orphans

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blay_paul blay_paul March 1, 2010 March 1, 2010 at 11:32:44 AM UTC link Permalink

> As the major part of both japanese and english come from
> the tanaka corpus, I can understand that the english is
> not really reliable.

The Tanaka Corpus was, initially, generated by students submitting pairs of sentences with the intent that the Japanese and English meant the same thing. So the Japanese is marginally more reliable than the English because the person entering it was Japanese.

However you cannot assume that the Japanese is correct and the English unreliable all the time. It's more complicated than that.

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xtofu80 xtofu80 March 6, 2010 March 6, 2010 at 4:09:00 PM UTC link Permalink

Being a native German speaker, I came across both Japanese and English sentence which I felt were not correct, however I was not 100% sure.
It would be a cool feature if non-natives could mark a sentence as "questionable", and then this sentence could be checked and corrected or verified by a native speaker. I suppose this would be rather easy to implement using the word list feature. So a non-native speaker would not correct a sentence which he is not 100% sure about, but put it into this list, and native speakers could occasionally go through the list and check for grammatical errors. This would drastically improve the quality of the sentences, if the feature is known and used by most users.

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blay_paul blay_paul March 6, 2010 March 6, 2010 at 4:54:55 PM UTC link Permalink

Just post saying that you're not sure they are correct. There are enough native speakers of English to check the English speakers (and, though I may be biased, I think I'm good enough at Japanese to usually have a good idea as to whether a sentence is OK).