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gillux's messages on the Wall (total 595)

gillux gillux March 25, 2020 March 25, 2020 at 3:20:15 PM UTC link Permalink

It used to be like that, but it was changed for the reasons mentioned in this discussion: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/pull/2224

gillux gillux March 16, 2020 March 16, 2020 at 11:33:45 AM UTC link Permalink

What if we had a page similar to the current "add sentences to a list" but for tags? I mean a page that allows you to choose one or more tags, and then create as many sentences as you want. The sentences created from that page would automatically be tagged upon creation.

gillux gillux March 16, 2020 March 16, 2020 at 11:27:22 AM UTC link Permalink

Are you being melancholic?

gillux gillux March 16, 2020, edited March 16, 2020 March 16, 2020 at 11:18:51 AM UTC, edited March 16, 2020 at 11:24:59 AM UTC link Permalink

What’s New on Tatoeba? - Your weekly recap #8


UPDATES

The highlight of this update is about the new design. What we call the "new design" is an ongoing project that aims to make Tatoeba usable on mobile, generally more attractive and to solve a number of bugs inherent to the current design. We thought this new design is getting mature enough to be used by a broader audience, and we’d like to gather more real-life feedback from our community. That’s why this update introduces a message over the random sentence block to more proactively suggest trying it out.

Over the last months, Trang has been working very hard on porting features from the old design to the new design, including the "Add a translation" and "Add to list" sentence buttons, and individual lists pages. Thanks to her for the implementation, to gillux and rumpelstilzchen for code reviewing, to everyone who have been testing and sending us feedback, and to Mozilla for financing us. Constructive feedback about the new design is very welcome.

Other than that:

• Every wall post now have a "Send message" button to easily send a private message to the poster. Thanks to Aiji for the suggestion and implementation.

• The default sort order of the "View all tags" page has been fixed. Thanks to CK for reporting the problem and gillux for fixing it.

• A bug that prevented guests from playing audio on indirect translations has been discovered and fixed by gillux.

• rumpelstilzchen and gillux did some cleanup in the code base. This maintenance work is invisible to users, but it always feels nice for current and future developers to work in a clean place, doesn’t it?


ON THE WALL

• CK started a discussion about translations in the same language as original, which turned into a debate about corpus diversity: https://tatoeba.org/fra/wall/show_message/34400

• Thanuir posted a proposal about reviewing sentences in a way that would allow regular members to better contribute to the proofreading effort: https://tatoeba.org/fra/wall/show_message/34378


CONTRIBUTIONS AND LANGUAGES

• 12,207 sentences have been contributed last week.

• A new language was added: Jewish Babylonian Aramaic. This brings the number of supported languages to 351! Thanks to shekitten for requesting the language and providing the flag, gillux for reviewing and Ricardo14 for coordinating.

• Some of our members helped translating the website (crediting using Transifex usernames):
• In Swedish: ajje
• In Norwegian: vikvaering
• In Kirundi: dorée
• In French: Rockaround, RyckRichards, gillux and sacredceltic
• In Spanish: arh
• In Gronings: MarijnKp
• In Portuguese: RyckRichards
• In Russian: fjay69 and sharptoothed
• In Turkish: Gulo_Luscus
• In German: Pfirsichbäumchen
• In Breton: Iriep
• In Esperanto: PaulP
• In Finnish: Silja and Thanuir
• In Italian: Guybrush88
• In Dutch: 58karel and michel.smts2
• In Interligua: shekitten
• In Hungarian: Wydy99
• In Marathi: sabretou
• In Japanese: small_snow

Thank you very much everybody! You too can help us translate the website to your language by joining us on Transifex: https://www.transifex.com/tatoe...ite/dashboard/ and check this article on the wiki https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...ce-translation

If you’re especially happy with something, don’t hesitate to personally thank people who participated in this update. Most of us are working in the shadow but we are always glad to hear your feedback.

-------------

Fun fact: if we compress the history of the universe (from the big bang to now) into one year, the History as we know it spans for less than 30 seconds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_Calendar

Last week recap: https://tatoeba.org/fra/wall/show_message/34374
See this recap on the blog: https://blog.tatoeba.org/2020/0...ecap-8_16.html

gillux gillux March 16, 2020 March 16, 2020 at 11:04:01 AM UTC link Permalink

There will be a period of transition, but sooner or later we will get rid of the old design entirely.

gillux gillux March 11, 2020 March 11, 2020 at 8:53:36 AM UTC link Permalink

Noted, I’m going to fix this soon.

gillux gillux March 10, 2020 March 10, 2020 at 5:45:25 AM UTC link Permalink

Merci. Je suis globalement d’accord, le système actuel de sérieuses limites car des tas de suggestions proposées sous forme de commentaire finissent perdues dans la masse.

Peut-être pourrait-on commencer avec un système simple de signalement : lorsque je commente une phrase, je peux cocher une case genre "Je crois qu’il y a un problème avec cette phrase." Cela aurait pour effet de mettre une révision "pas sûr" (orange) même si l’on a le paramètre des révisions désactivé. Puis, on crée une autre page "relecture" qui permet de lister toutes les phrases "pas sûr" pour une langue donnée.

À part ça, je suis d’accord avec Aiji sur le fait qu’un système de vote n’est pas adapté, car je pense que la qualité ne s’obtient pas en alignant des chiffres, mais en discutant et en apprenant. Je pense qu’on pourrait plutôt s’inspirer de la manière dont fonctionne Wikipédia, le consensus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W...for_discussion

gillux gillux March 9, 2020 March 9, 2020 at 6:02:36 AM UTC link Permalink

Thanks for reporting the problem, Alan. It should be fixed now.

gillux gillux March 6, 2020 March 6, 2020 at 1:22:21 PM UTC link Permalink

> I see a bunch of Japanese sentences without English translations

I find translating from Japanese quite tedious because of what you describe. You just can’t add all the variations all the time, you really have to think about what kind of context the sentence can or cannot be used, depending on the omitted parts, the politeness, the 語尾 etc. and this require quite of a deep feeling of the language. The shorter sentence, the more difficult to translate. Because of that, I sometimes end up not translating a sentence I thought I’d able to translate.

gillux gillux March 4, 2020, edited March 4, 2020 March 4, 2020 at 10:08:33 AM UTC, edited March 4, 2020 at 2:02:34 PM UTC link Permalink

Attention to people searching in Greek, Tamil, Basque, Hindi, Arabic, Catalan, Nepali, Irish and Lithuanian.

In the past, searching in these languages only returned exact matches. Now, similar words will also match. This feature is called stemming.

For example, in English, which has stemming enabled, searching for "like" will also find sentences including likes, likely, liked, etc. Prefixing a word with an equal sign (for example =like) will only return exact matches.

I wonder if the stemming algorithm used to stem Arabic could be used as-is for other Arabic varieties.

gillux gillux March 2, 2020 March 2, 2020 at 12:36:31 PM UTC link Permalink

The problem should be solved now. Thanks for reporting it to us!

gillux gillux February 23, 2020 February 23, 2020 at 4:56:46 PM UTC link Permalink

Le mot révision est pourtant usité en ce sens #7110307 #1800528 #8572638. Quelques références :

• Académie 8e édition : https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition.../r%C3%A9vision Action par laquelle on revoit, on examine de nouveau, en vue de corriger, de modifier, de réformer s'il y a lieu

• Larousse : https://www.larousse.fr/diction...a9vision#68378 Action d'examiner de nouveau, de mettre à jour, de modifier

Mon avis : si, comme le dit l’Académie, la révision ne désigne que l’action d’examiner, alors ça pourrait correspondre. Par contre, si, comme le dit le Larousse, la révision désigne l’ensemble du processus, depuis la critique jusqu’à la correction, ou encore la version corrigée, alors ça ne correspond peut-être plus vraiment.

Pour dire les choses autrement, juste "OK" ou "pas OK" c’est peut-être un peu léger pour une révision. Par exemple, si la fonctionnalité permettait, en plus de dire "pas OK", de proposer une correction, alors on pourrait dire "voici la révision de Untel : [phrase modifiée]".

gillux gillux February 19, 2020, edited February 19, 2020 February 19, 2020 at 3:37:00 PM UTC, edited February 19, 2020 at 3:40:33 PM UTC link Permalink

It looks very nice and feels intuitive! A few comments.

Open the box, type something, close the box, open it again: the text I entered is still there. I think it should be cleared.

I don’t like the wording "Your most recent lists" because it’s both unclear and inaccurate. "Your" suggests that I am the owner, while it’s not the case: other people’s lists can show up too (for example, if the last selected list is a collaborative list). "recent" is also unclear: what is recent? Last recently created? Last recently seen?" Finally, lists that are not "recent" in any way appear too, just because I’m the creator.

It looks like when the sentence already belongs to a list, the list doesn’t show up. I didn’t expect that because you are using the checkbox pattern. Instead, after clicking the "add to list" button, or after typing something, I expected to see lists that this sentence already belongs to showing up as checked. Not seeing a list showing up also makes me wonder I made a typo or something.

It looks like you’re using bold to indicate "you’re the owner". This wasn’t really easy to understand for me because the first time I opened the box, it only showed my own lists, so everything was in bold, so I had nothing to compare that could have helped me guess the meaning. There might be a better way to indicate that; or do we really need to indicate that information after all?

The button name "create" is inaccurate because it both creates a list and add the sentence to it. I have no suggestion for a better and short enough wording though.

There is a substantial lag between clicking the "create" button and seeing the result of that action. I think a loading spinner would make the process feel smoother.

I guess the "(last selected)" label is a remain of the old design? I don’t think this feature makes sense in the new design because it’s a multi-selection list and you can type to search anyway. When first opening the box, the entire list could be consisting of "last selected" lists sorted by "last selected first".

gillux gillux February 17, 2020 February 17, 2020 at 10:29:24 AM UTC link Permalink

I’d like to ask a question to Mandarin Chinese speakers about the word 什麼.
As a beginner in Chinese, I’d like to know the differences between 甚麼 and 什麼.
As a developer of Tatoeba, I’d like to know if the automatic script conversion is correct in these sentences:

#829202 什麼 (trad.) → 什么 (simp.) This is fine.
#465906 什么 (simp.) → 甚麼 (trad.) I’m not sure about this. As far as I understand 甚麼 is an equivalent word, but strictly speaking, can 甚 be considered as a traditional form of 什?
#3364516 甚麼 (trad.) → 甚么 (simp.) This looks wrong.

gillux gillux February 14, 2020 February 14, 2020 at 7:09:39 AM UTC link Permalink

Well, I don't think it would be acceptable because of cultural differences. I believe that warning about the language and asking for help are the kind of things you have to word quite differently depending on the culture. There is a lot more than words to translate if you want to effectively convey the message. In particular, if you ask for help in a clumsy way, you may as well scare people away. To illustrate my view, here is a story about Microsoft’s infamous translations in Japanese https://www.724685.com/weekly/qa040623.htm

If we want people to help translating, better ask them in a way that is appropriate in their culture. This is all the more true when languages that need the most help are from cultures that are totally different that English-speaking countries.

gillux gillux February 13, 2020 February 13, 2020 at 8:16:22 AM UTC link Permalink

I would like to share my thoughts about how we can improve the situation.

We could prioritize some strings that are more likely to be shown or more important to understand the website, so that translators can start with translating these first. Selecting such strings may prove to be a difficult task however.

For languages which translation is really incomplete, we could put a banner warning about that and suggesting to help. But it would only makes sense if the banner itself is translated.

We could prioritize some languages. That’s a potentially controversial idea, but let me explain. As a matter of fact, people from certain countries have on average a better understanding of English, so on a purely functional perspective, we may assume that it’s less important for them that the site is fully translated. Based on some data about English intelligibility [1], for example we can tell that on average it’s less useful to translate the site in Dutch because 90% of Dutch people can understand English. For comparison, only 5% of Russians can understand English, so we can prioritize Russian over Dutch. Actually I don’t really like this idea, because I believe that on a qualitative perspective the message is always better received when speaking in someone’s mother tongue.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...ing_population

gillux gillux February 11, 2020 February 11, 2020 at 10:03:26 AM UTC link Permalink

*** 日本語例文の振り仮名を改善 ***

今日は日本語例文に自動的に振り仮名を付ける機能を改善しました。その改善は本当、4年前とみーさんと一緒に実行しましたが[1]、その書込で話した改善は2019の9月からなくなってしまいました(多分サーバーが落ちた時)。ですから、あれから追加された日本語例文の自動振り仮名が文字にちゃんと振り分けてなかったのです。今日はその例文の振り仮名を直した上に、これから追加される日本語例文の振り仮名の自動付きも直しました。

*** Better furigana on Japanese sentences ***

I have been working to improve the autogeneration of furigana on Japanese sentences. This is something I actually already did four years ago (time flies...) [1] with the help of tommy_san. But the improvements I mentioned in that post were reverted in September 2017 (when the server crashed I think). In particular, sentences contributed after this date didn’t have furigana properly aligned. Today I restored the furigana of these sentences and updated the furigana autogeneration for future Japanese sentences.

[1] https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/sh...#message_25442

gillux gillux February 11, 2020 February 11, 2020 at 9:24:31 AM UTC link Permalink

Thanks for reporting the problem. Can you try copy and pasting sentences on https://dev.tatoeba.org/ now and tell me if it works with Internet Explorer?

gillux gillux February 6, 2020 February 6, 2020 at 8:37:29 AM UTC link Permalink

Since we use Manticore as a search engine, the search syntax is defined by them. Among intuitive features like the wildcard, Manticore includes less intuitive things like the NEAR operator.

We have been using Manticore (or Sphinx, as it was named before) for many years. We didn’t change anything in the way the search behave. Can you confirm that 4 years ago, searching for "saw him *ing" behave differently? Maybe something changed in newer versions of Manticore.

gillux gillux February 5, 2020 February 5, 2020 at 3:17:36 AM UTC link Permalink

Thanks, I took note of the this on our issue tracker: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/2127