That could be something to think about; defaulting the licence to something open?

yes, the back row, or the back rows. For the dialogues, I tried to use simple constructions and everyday language, and to stick rigidly to the present tense, avoiding anything that uses future, past or subjunctive-like tenses. However the English is quite colloquial or conversational in each. The idea being that they are reasonably natural and not too forced despite being basic.

Hi Selena, thank you for doing this. I mean, "to drink" (to have a drink), "at the back", meaning "at the back of the cinema". It is only idiomatic in that people do naughty things at the back of cinemas where they cannot be seen.

I will change the levels on advice of course.

Here are all three dialogues now

https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...&direction=asc At the Cinema

https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...&direction=asc A day at school

https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...&direction=asc At the Baker's

I would love it if people wrote some themselves as well!

Ah blimey I am blind. You are quite. So the problem still exists - WM content is incompatible with yours, but yours can move to WM. But there is little that can be done about that.

Hi Trang,

Sorry I was not clear on (1). I don't care about what licenses are here or chosen, especially not cc-by and cc-0, they are permissive and that is all good.

The issue is with using cc-by-sa 2.0, and not moving to cc-by-sa-3.0 or 4.0

Basically you should move everything on cc-by-sa-2.0 to cc-by-sa-3.0 at this stage. This should be a simple "find everything using cc-by-sa-2.0 and change it to cc-by-sa-3.0" Nobody will care as it has the same properties. And you are allowed to move forward with cc licences, but not backwards.

*As a result* it means that if I have a Wikipedia sentence, with a 3.0 licence, I can then move it here, only if you are allowing me to use a 3.0 licence. While you stick with 2.0, i cannot do this under the terms of the Wikipedia 3.0 licence.

Thanks for your answer on (2)

Perhaps it is just the audio I have searched for. All the Latin audio I have found is closed, for instance: https://tatoeba.org/en/sentences/show/912329

Presumably this was user choice. I haven't look at the signposting and options tho as I haven't tried adding any.

Hi there,

(1) No that is not quite right. If you have a cc-by-sa-20.0 grant, this is forward compatible to cc-by-sa-3.0 or beyond, so you can simply reassign it to either.

See https://creativecommons.org/sha...ble-licenses/:

"Version 2.0 and 2.5

Your contributions to adaptations of BY-SA 2.0 or 2.5 materials may only be licensed under:

The license used for the original work, or a later version of that BY-SA license."

However, the licenses are *not backwards compatible* and that is causing the conflict. I cannot move content from Wikipedia to here, as a cc-by-sa 3.0 licence cannot be changed to 2.0

On (2) For sure, but it would be nice to do this in a way that could structure into data and not give misleading information. (I am not the author of the sentence, but the data probably says I am).

Hi there,

With the story project I've got going, I have hit a couple of problems which are not fatal but make life a bit difficult in relation to the short story project I mentioned here so I though I would ask if there is any chance of resolving them in the medium term?

(1) Migrating to CC-By-SA 3.0 or 4.0 - this is technically possible for you so why not do it? It would allow more content to be cross posted here; and

(2) There is no way to use a more sophisticated attribution, such as a link back to a Wikimedia credits page, to allow content appropriately licenced to be posted here

On point (2) I can see this could be a right pain if every user was given this ability - you would have a much bigger copyright policing issue to deal with - but couldn't you consider for certain users, with prior agreement for a particular use case?

Thank you very much, again very useful! I will link to that from the Wikiversity page

Here is another dialogue: https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...&direction=asc

The big thing for me is the licencing. Most of the audio content is not open so cannot be reused on other projects. That is rather disappointing, and something that could be changed, or at least discouraged?

Here is a first one done! Translated by Seael – who noticed it was a dialogue, of course :) https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki...s/A1-Cinema/es

OK, but I wrote them and I can do what I like with them :)

I am hoping that people on Tatoeba write the translations, and we put them on Wikiversity. Even if the licence issues are adjusted so tatoeba offers cc-by-sa 3.0, the authors need to write the sentences themslves when posting at Tatoeba, because Tatoeba does not offer an attribution field at submisison.

You are right that the original story author will need to write and post to both, which is a bit awkward. After all I don't want to write all of the stories, that would be a bit boring!

The reason you can't use Wikiverse content on Tatoeba is more than likely because Tatoeba does not have a means to explain “attribution” – that is, you cannot say where the sentence is from. Not including attribution information breaks the licence for any of these and means you infringe copyright.

However, when a Tatoeba sentence is imported into Wikimedia projects, the accreditation and attribution can be preserved by means of a simple link in the edit information, meaning that the licence is abided by. This can get fiddly but can be done. For these stories it is not too bad, and with a bit of extra work like tagging, it could be possible to find the content on Tatoeba easily too.

CC licences are designed to be compatible with each other over time, or we would be in a terrible mess (the one you are speculating might exist!) More on how that works can be found here, which explains how newer CC licences are compatible with older ones: https://creativecommons.org/sha...ible-licenses/

Those licences are designed to be compatible (cc-by-sa); CC-By and CC-0 permit usage on cc-by-sa platforms. The crucial thing is attribution, which to be fair is a bit difficult when adding to Tatoeba, but easy when adding to WM projects.

I've posted a demonstration story here: https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki...ders/A1-Cinema and also posted the sentence set to Tatoeba so you can see what I mean!

If someone translates the sentence set, then we can post the whole dialogue to Wikiversity in that language.

This could be a great way to develop dialogues and Tatoeba content :)

** Collaborative project idea**

Hi all, I have an idea for a collaborative project with Wikiversity, if you are interested.

The idea is to produce a set of stories and dialogues in various languages, featuring sentences graded at levels based on the European Framework, ie A1, A2, B1 in particular.

Because sentence production is your strength, I thought we could collaborate to write stories with sentences that could be easily translated here. These could preferably be tagged, for ease of finding them.

I've put up a demonstration page on Wikiversity to show the way the navigation would work (it could be prettier, but content must come first I think).

https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Easy_Readers

Tatoeba lists:

https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...&direction=asc At the Cinema

https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...&direction=asc A day at school

https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...&direction=asc At the Baker's

Why not write your own stories too?

Hi all, and especially Latinists: I have set up a website and project to promote use and creation of Open Latin content, inspired by the success of Tatoeba and other projects like Vicipaedia. It has a website here: https://openlatin.org and a twitter account: https://twitter.com/openlatin Please do let me know if you would like to help!

We will try to identify tools that Latin and other languages might need, and longer term, perhaps well as develop other common content.

Hi there,

I really like your site and think it is a great use of open content. Good luck with it. I will be using it myself and have signed up.

However, you are right about the terms and conditions. Copyright subsists in (most of) the sentences, and there is a licence applied to them, which requires attribution and the ability for the end user to reuse the content you are publishing.

Thus, the T&Cs do need to spell out the source for the material and the licence conditions. In my view this needs to be linked on a page whenever it is used, especially if the sources vary. The user needs to be able to find out who wrote it for you to comply with the "by" condition and to know how to reuse the content themselves to comply with the "sharealike" condition. If the user has to trawl several sites to work this out, then the licence isn't being complied with.

This is complied with very well on clozemaster.com where the user can, for each sentence, find their way back to Tatoeba. That's how I found Tatoeba; I suspect the same is true for at least some other more recent contributors.

I hope this is something you agree with and will do. Don't forget you are building on the works of thousands of volunteers, whose work you are asked to appreciate through the licence, and you will want to encourage others to continue to contribute so your own product can grow in the future.

Sorry if that comes off as off hand - I certainly don't mean to be as I really like what you have done – but I am a very committed producer of open content and do believe that it is important for people to respect and promote the open-ness of content through complying with the licences.