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User55521 User55521 May 27, 2014, edited May 27, 2014 May 27, 2014 at 3:18:57 PM UTC, edited May 27, 2014 at 3:29:19 PM UTC link Permalink

**On Tom and Mary**

I think the original idea behind the name unfication was that names can be changed easily, to make different sentences with the same pattern just by changing names.

Well, the fact is, you can't do this. At least not for Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian, where Мэри/Мері/Мэры 'Mary' is indeclinable, but the majority of names are declined.

I'd like to see more sentences with declinable names, because I think there are more useful than sentences about Mary.

________

An example:
**Мері** була в Угорщині. (#492480)
Характер у **Мері** був настільки ж приємним, як і в її сестри. (#485079)
Том зустрів **Мері** по дорозі до школи. (#517314)
**Мері**, це - Давід, брат Джо. (#920464)
Том вирішив одружитися на **Мері**, хоча його батьки і не хотіли цього. (#1567120)
Том подружився з **Мері**, коли він жив у Бостоні. (#1569340)

The same two sentences with the name Oksana:
**Оксана** була в Угорщині.
Характер у **Оксани** був настільки ж приємним, як і в її сестри.
Том зустрів **Оксану** по дорозі до школи.
**Оксано**, це - Давід, брат Джо.
Том вирішив одружитися на **Оксані**, хоча його батьки і не хотіли цього.
Том подружився з **Оксаною**, коли він жив у Бостоні.

You see the difference? Mary stays unchanged in all the sentences, while Oksana is written differently in different sentences.

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Selena777 Selena777 May 27, 2014 May 27, 2014 at 3:33:34 PM UTC link Permalink

It's a bit strange, but I recently thought about this topic, too.

The idea was about avoiding a large amount of near-duplicates like "Tom is sleeping", "John is sleeping", etc.

So, I suggest just translate "Mary" as "Maria" (Мария) to Russian. I'm sure there are forms of this name in Ukrainian and Belarus, too. In my opinion, it will be much more helpful for those, who learns these languages.
At the same time, we can use other names in the original sentences, if our sentences are rather long and not so trivial.

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Inego Inego May 27, 2014 May 27, 2014 at 3:42:08 PM UTC link Permalink

That's probably why someone translated Tom as Фома into Russian.

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Selena777 Selena777 May 27, 2014 May 27, 2014 at 5:16:36 PM UTC link Permalink

I think, "Tom" is better. "Фома" has not very typical inclination for a masculine noun.

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Ooneykcall Ooneykcall May 27, 2014 May 27, 2014 at 5:54:42 PM UTC link Permalink

Most diminutives fall into that declension pattern (yes, soft and not hard, but that's a minor and easy distinction), regardless of their gender, so don't be too quick to put it away.

gleki gleki June 2, 2014 June 2, 2014 at 2:20:19 PM UTC link Permalink

Yes, since we are not translating John as "Ivan" although they are etymologically the same.

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Selena777 Selena777 June 2, 2014 June 2, 2014 at 2:39:58 PM UTC link Permalink

Джон/Иван doesn't really matter, but "Mary" is a big trouble for the Russian language, as Impersonator said. We could take preferable forms of names ("Джон", "Том" и "Мария" for example, and recommend all Russian contributors to stick them.

al_ex_an_der al_ex_an_der May 27, 2014 May 27, 2014 at 4:07:05 PM UTC link Permalink

Я с вами полностью согласен. Mi plene konsentas kun vi. ☺

pne pne June 1, 2014 June 1, 2014 at 2:17:36 PM UTC link Permalink

En la Germana, plej ofte „Mary“ estas tradukita kiel „Maria“.

Mi ankaŭ pensas ke estus plej bone traduki la nomojn per nomoj adaptitaj al la koncerna lingvo. (Sed, se eblas, ĉiam per la sama nomo, do ekz. ne foje „Maria“, foje „Mariino“, foje „Mario“ kaj foje „Manjo“.)

wallebot wallebot June 2, 2014 June 2, 2014 at 3:18:15 PM UTC link Permalink

What other names prefer?

I go to use Maria an other names.

I use Related in comments. If in future there are related sentences o sentece problably like you if this like, a bot can scan coment to search related sentences.
Example:

Sentence:
Tom quiere a Mary

Comment:
Related:
Link to sentence
"Jose quiere a María"

Basicaly is very similar, but different. Not a translation. Maybe the other hava more translations or something interesting que this dont have.

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Selena777 Selena777 June 2, 2014 June 2, 2014 at 3:58:45 PM UTC link Permalink

Well, it seems to me, we should use names, that are typical for the language, we translate into. Impersonator tried to explain this issue. In Russian (also in Ukrainian abd Belarusian) we have inclination of nouns. But "Mary" have a non-typical ending for a Russian female noun, so it doesn't have any changing. We should say "I'm Mary", "I see Mary", "This thing belongs to Mary", etc, but Russian name "Maria" has different endings depend of case: "Maria", "Marii", "Marie", "Mariu", "Mariei". Actually, for learners, it's one of most difficult parts of the language, cause they often confusing these endings. Using the name "Mary" we can't help them in this issue. There is no such trouble with the name "Tom", cause it has an ending as a typical Russian male noun.

P.S. As I know, "Jose" and "Tom" is not forms of the same name, unlike "Mary" and "Maria".

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wallebot wallebot June 2, 2014 June 2, 2014 at 9:32:12 PM UTC link Permalink

P.S. As I know, "Jose" and "Tom" is not forms of the same name, unlike "Mary" and "Maria".

Its true. Sorry Im confusing you. I say de sentence is related is very similar but with another name also similar and usefull if original sentece it's.

Tom in spanish is Tomás. I don't know Jose in English, but Jose and María are Fathers os Jesús in the Bible.

In Turkish, the similar sentence with differente names are important examples.

In the Wall a message os Shishir Explain it.
I hope find the link.

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Selena777 Selena777 June 3, 2014 June 3, 2014 at 4:48:06 AM UTC link Permalink

Perhaps, Jose is "Joseph" in English. In Russian there is a name "Osip" that means "Joseph" and the name "Foma" that means "Tomas", but these names are really rare nowadays.

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wallebot wallebot June 3, 2014 June 3, 2014 at 7:15:39 AM UTC link Permalink

It`s true Joseph. I didn`t remenber.

Tomás is rare in Spain also. Old people more frecuent.

Selena777 Selena777 May 27, 2014 May 27, 2014 at 5:20:12 PM UTC link Permalink

I think, the name "Maria" is good, cause there is in any European language. I'm not sure about "Oksana"... Though, "Tom" is not widespread name. Maybe, "Alexander" or "Maxim" could be better.