[not needed anymore- removed by CK]

I have not used the rating system a lot so far. At the moment I only mark something as "OK" if I would not mind adopting the sentence as is. (i.e. the "I'd use it" kind of OK) And I have only used the "unsure" once or twice, when something had to be fixed, but technically not wrong.

Specifically, there was sentence #2817826, which previously had the word for turkey, while every single sentence it was linked to had a word for peacock. Technically there was nothing wrong with the sentence itself, but it clearly needed to either be changed, or unlinked from every other sentence. But changing it was preferable, so I marked it as unsure.

Every now and then I use the "not OK" button, but if the sentence is recently added I usually only leave a message so I don't have to remember to remove the "not OK" mark.

That's basically how I've used the system so far.

To answer Tommy's questions:

1. Grammatically incorrect sentences that are, however, still very likely to be understood, or, on the contrary, sentences that may be completely correct, but just sound too odd.
2. Yes. This is the case of sentences that are correct, a little bit odd – yet still not odd enough for me to mark them as "unsure".
3. As I say for question 2 – I skip them.
4. I too think that the term "collection" probably isn't the best word we could have chosen. (If nobody comes with a better idea, why don't we just simply say "ratings"?)

Also, for the thing Raizin mentioned: I do not only check if the sentence is correct in itself, but also if it is a good translation (of other sentences in the languages I know). An example may be this Esperanto sentence (https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/1130491), which is grammatically correct, but (as its author and defender claims) only in certain context – and in the context of its translations here it is incorrect.

1. Ones, that are grammatically correct, but sound odd or too akward.
2. Yes, I skip a sentence if I don't like how it sounds, but it's not so odd to be marked as "unsure". Also I skip the sentences, which have complicated punctuation, so I can't estimate, if they correct or not.
3. If they are grammatically correct and don't seem akward, so I'll rate them OK, even if I wouldn't use them by myself because of my personal preferences (for example, some of their words aren't in my active vocabulary, but only in my passive vocabulary), but I'm sure some other people use them.
4. Yes.

Suggestions: As well we have the features like "favourites", "lists" and "collections", that have many things in common (but not all), there should be a possibility to add a sentence in "favourites" and "collection" by one single click.
I think it should be "add to favourites and marked OK", "add to favourites, but not mark" (I like the sentence and need it for my personal usage, but I'm, for example, not all sure about orphografy or punctuation), "don't add to favourites, but mark OK (the sentence is OK, but I don't need it for my personal usage). Also there should be a possibility to see all the sentences in any language, you haven't already marked, and the "skip" button (if I don't mark the sentence "OK", "not OK" nor "unsure" (other people can't see "skipped" sentences).

About "skipped" sentences I mean if one doesn't want to rate it, and doesn't want to see in their "unrated" list.

> 1. What kind of sentences do you mark as "unsure"?
I'm not sure if a sentence is wrong and I didn't have time to check in grammars or dictionaries. After checking, I will change it to OK or Wrong.

> 2. Have you ever thought about rating a sentence and then decided not to? If so, why?
When the sentence was OK on itself, but not the precise translation of a linked sentence.

> 3. How do you rate sentences that you know are correct but which you wouldn't use yourself?
As OK.

> 4. Do you have any kind of collection that consists of good things and bad things and things you're unsure of? (Right now, the whole set of sentences that you marked as "OK", "unsure" or "not OK" is called a collection right now.)
No. I only check the "not OK" group now and then in order to verify if the author or an admin corrected it.

I don’t use the new rating feature to create my own private collections, I see it as a way to improve the quality of the total collection, to make it more trustworthy.
Usually I go through all the German sentences of a day, but I haven’t yet found a consistent system of how I do the rating.
1) Marking as unsure seems the easiest thing, though it’s very hard to explain what exactly “unsure” means to me. These are sentences where I would raise my eyebrow if I read or heard them from a normally trustworthy source. Sentences that are clumsy, that don’t convey the meaning in a suitable way. I know the rating system is not intended to judge the quality of translations, but of course the meaning of the source sentence – if I understand it – has an influence on my rating. If there is only a simple vocabulary error in it (like peacock instead of turkey in the above example) I wouldn’t use “unsure”, though. Maybe I would mark it if there was a category error as well.

2-4) In the beginning I thought of rating every sentence, but I stopped that shortly after . Now I only – and only occasionally - okay sentences by non-natives or sentences that have been questioned by others. OK means that I judge the sentence as acceptable. It doesn’t mean I think it’s very good, that I agree with the information or meaning it conveys, and certainly not that I would use it myself. As I said I have no use for a collection of sentences that I would use personally and I don’t think it would be too interesting for others. I can’t write like a novelist, I don’t talk like a 18 year old, there are many regional variants in my personal dialect of German - so I wouldn’t use some sentences myself, but I can recognize they are "correct".
So why do I not rate sentences as OK? Because it feels silly. Why would I tell the world that an ordinary every-day sentence, written by a trustworthy user, is OK in my opinion?
Still I think we should encourage each other to do just that. Considering other languages that I am interested in, but can’t judge the quality of their sentences, I’d be very, very grateful if I could rely on rating opinions of native speakers other than the owner. (Turkish, excuse me to give an example, where there seem to be some problematic contributors and where 90 percent of the corpus is by one person).

1. 'not quite natural' and, sometimes, 'quite unnatural' (see my response to CK's comment for an explanation of these labels)
2. yes, when I can't decide whether it's 'quite natural' enough to be marked OK, or rather 'not quite natural' and deserves an Unsure mark.
3. I consider them 'quite natural' and rate them OK. Occasionally there is a technically correct sentence that I find rather strange, then I don't rate it. I'd rate it 'not quite natural' according to my idea.

4. yes, but these collections have a different motivation behind them: to collect notes, works or something of a very particular topic, whether good or bad. My completionist tendencies play in. This is obviously not applicable to Tatoeba, however. 'My collection' is a strange name for that, I concur.

> 1. What kind of sentences do you mark as "unsure"?

I use 'unsure' when I feel like there are some mistakes or the sentence is unnatural but I can't suggest a good correction. I also believe it's a good way to let people know that some sentence is gramatically good but not very natural by marking it as 'unsure'.

> 2. Have you ever thought about rating a sentence and then decided not to? If so, why?
Yes, I have decided not to rate offensive, trash, unadopted sentences as well as the ones I find difficult to judge for some reasons.

> 3. How do you rate sentences that you know are correct but which you wouldn't use yourself?
As to me, I only put 'OK' if I'd say this sentence myself. In other words, I find these sentences natural and correct. If I'm not sure, I don't put 'OK'.

> 4. Do you have any kind of collection that consists of good things and bad things and things you're unsure of? (Right now, the whole set of sentences that you marked as "OK", "unsure" or "not OK" is called a collection right now.)
I would call it my ratings.

I'll just answer question 4.

Yes, I do collect bad things regularly. And the binmen come and take them away each week. I have a bin for general rubbish, one for garden waste, one for things you can recycle and one for food waste. Apart from that I collect old batteries, for example, and once a year maybe I’ll take them to the recycling place. Other things just collect themselves in the house, like pots of old paint, and other tings I just don’t get round to removing from the house.

I wouldn’t call all these “my collection”. And by analogy, I suppose, calling reviewed sentences “a collection” seems to me a kind of provisional term until a better one comes along. Maybe one could call reviewed sentences just “reviews”?

AS TO THE OTHER POINTS a lot has been said alredy and I feel I wouldn't add anything new.

HOWEVER, I mostly rate non-native speakers' German sentences. Doing more I feel is a bit much and wouldn't do my brain much good.

1. What kind of sentences do you mark as "unsure"?

I mark as "unsure" the sentences that seem awkward, illogical or somewhat unnatural to me as well as the sentences with questionable punctuation.

2. Have you ever thought about rating a sentence and then decided not to? If so, why?

Yes, it happens sometimes. Mostly when I want to mark a sentence as "not OK" but then realize that I'm ether not so sure about that or don't have enough arguments to mark it that way. I usually mark such sentences as "unsure" or just skip them.

3. How do you rate sentences that you know are correct but which you wouldn't use yourself?

In most cases I skip them and sometimes I use "unsure" mark. I think it's better not marking a sentence at all than giving it wrong or biased mark.

4. In your real life, do you have any kind of collection that include things that you think are bad?

No, I don't have such kind of collection. I don't think they are of any use for me. Bad examples are only good when corresponding good examples exist, I believe.

1. I use them when a sentence is not ungrammatical and don’t have obvious errors, but a better alternative exist.

Looking through the list of my 'Unsure' sentences, here’s my reasons:

— I feel the sentence uses a calque from another language (#3990931 ['одержима'], #4458261 ['провести весь день, отвечая'], #4458805 ['мы участвуем'], #4458640 ['вода передаёт звук', when impersonal sentence would sound better], #4458883 and #4458885 ['на том факте'],)
— The sentence uses rare/strange words when a better alternative exists (#4427693 ['вакацыі', when oficially it’s called 'канікулы' in school], #4458487 ['фомка' is a rare word when 'лом' is more common], #4458814 ['I. D.'])
— The sentence uses rare/strange collocations (#4457710, #4457410 ['на стороне злодеев' is OK, but 'относяться к стороне злодеев' sounds strange], #4490006)
— The sentence uses a not-neutral word order, which might be used in context for emphasis, but a neutral alternative is possible (#4456763, #4459324)
— The sentence uses dash instead of more usual punctuation (#4457009)
— The sentence breaks з/із/зі alteration rule in Ukrainian (#4452501 ['з Сікоку' instead of 'із Сікоку'])
— The sentence breaks у/в alteration rule in Ukrainian (#4453963 ['в нього' instead of 'у нього'])
— The sentence uses a sequence of words in the same case, which sounds bad and can be avoided by rephrasing (#4457274 ['для получения мыла'])
— The sentence uses a heavy-weight nominal construction (#4457019) or might be confused for a nominal expression (#4457718)
— The sentence uses a modal verb that makes the meaning strange (#4458277, #4458635)
— The sentence sounds too heavy-weight for me, it can be made simpler and more clear (#4457702, #4457716, #4458435, #4457731, #4457298, #4457717)
— The sentence sounds strange to me because this meaning is normally expressed differently (#4458371 [I would say 'я голый'], #4457893 [not 'я тебе подруга'], #4458048 ['у него в бороде'])
— I just feel the sentence may be unnatural, but I can’t explain why (#645278, #4459225, #4459231)

Most of these are not really errors, but I would rephrase the sentence if I were to use it in the text.

2. Yes. Sometimes it’s hard to decide between 'unsure' and 'no', or 'unsure' and 'yes'. When I can’t make my mind on the sentence, I just skip it.

3. 'Unsure'.

4. I don’t use the word 'collection' for my real-life things.

1. What kind of sentences do you mark as "unsure"?

R: I haven't use this one yet and I can't think of a situation where I would use it. But I would not suggest to remove the feature. Maybe there is a case where it could be helpful, and I don't see it right now.

I would also say that I won't use this feature to mark sentences that are syntactically and semantically correct, but don't sound natural to me (because of the order of the words or because of the words chosen, etc.).



2. Have you ever thought about rating a sentence and then decided not to? If so, why?

R: No.



3. How do you rate sentences that you know are correct but which you wouldn't use yourself?

R: I don't. I leave it for people who use it to mark it as "OK".



4. In your real life, do you have any kind of collection that include things that you think are bad? (I ask this because right now on Tatoeba, the whole set of sentences that you marked as "OK", "unsure" or "not OK" is called your "collection".)

R: Yes, I do. Usually code (programming languages), sentences (natural languages) and drawings. I use bad things to compare with good things.

However, I have to say that I don't mark sentences to create collections for myself, but to make it easier for foreigners learning my language to see if a sentence is generally accepted or not, or to see that the sentence has been reviewed by other native speakers.

Thank you all for your replies. Here are some reflections.

5. It's interesting to see that many members mark a sentence as "unsure" only when they're sure it sounds odd and they often refrain from marking when they're really unsure. It seems to me that for many of us, the current three options virtually means "(I'm sure it's) correct and natural", "(I'm sure it's) not incorrect but unnatural" and "(I'm sure it's) incorrect". There's an obvious crack between the first two options, and I think there should be an option that fills it up – an option that you choose when you're really unsure if a sentence sounds natural. This "unsure" should literally mean "unsure". It's by no means a negative vote.

Would you use this option if we had it, or would you still not feel like rating when you're not sure if a sentence sounds natural? Should we perhaps make the "unsure" ratings anonymous?

6. Ooneykcall's suggestion adds one more option "perfect".
https://tatoeba.org/wall/show_m...#message_24116
As I understand it, this option is for the gems of sentences of your choice – literary sentences that are stylistically outstanding and conversational sentences that sound particularly real, for example.
His five-option system actually seems to match mostly the way I rate sentences now (see my profile), but I'm not sure if we can convince other members of the necessity of this fifth option.

7. Some people suggested distinguishing between sentences you'd use yourself and those you wouldn't use yourself. However, I'm not sure if this would be useful enough.

The problem is how to define the "would". It would be clearly ridiculous to really stick to what you'd say in your real life (I'd unlikely ever say "I hate tomatoes" because I like tomatoes), so judgment will involve many kinds of ifs (I'd say "I hate tomatoes" if I hated tomatoes). On the other hand, it would be also nonsense to accept just any kind of ifs (I'd say "I loves you" if I were a beginner of English). So the right line must be somewhere between the two extremes. Would it be OK to think "if I were a female", "if I were 80 years old", "if I were a speaker of British English"? We need to decide on this and make sure each member understands it, otherwise the data would be useless.

I think that personal tags would be more suited for this kind of thing than a predefined dichotomy of "I'd use it" and "I wouldn't use it".

8. Some people take translations into consideration when they mark sentences. If this is not desirable, we'll need to emphasize it somewhere. I think we should use tags when the sentence itself is good and the translation is wrong, but the problem is you need to be at least an advanced contributor to add tags. Maybe we should allow any user to add some tags like "@change" and "@check translation".

9. Like CK and Selena777, I, too, would like a page that lists all the sentences in a particular language that I haven't proofread, and the option "I've read this, but I don't want to rate it now" so that it won't appear on the list again. For example, when you find a sentence offensive and just don't want to deal with it, you could choose this option.

Selena777 says the list of these sentences should be invisible to other users. I think this is debatable. I personally feel these (un)ratings shouldn't appear on each sentence page, but I wouldn't mind it if it's possible for someone interested to see the list of sentences I skipped.

10. This wasn't suggested on this thread, but I'd like to request once more a feature to ask other members to rate specific sentences.
https://tatoeba.org/wall/show_m...#message_23736