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gleki gleki June 7, 2018 June 7, 2018 at 6:45:42 AM UTC link Permalink

Why is Tatoeba so opressive towards languages using emoji?

https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/2096210

How is this justified? Some languages use separate words (written in e.g. Latin alphabet) to express emotions.

But not all languages are lucky. Some use pictures or combinations of various symbols like ":-)"

Why ignore this crucial part of not only culture but just human nature?

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Aiji Aiji June 9, 2018 June 9, 2018 at 3:33:22 AM UTC link Permalink

First of all, it might be good to re-read the guidelines or the what is Tatoeba part.

There are some logical reason to not include emojis on sentences, here are some:

Because there is no such languages as "languages using emoji". This is not a fundamental part of any language as capitalization or punctuation are, for example.
Emoji can be used in every language without distinction. However, they are wrongly believed to add sense to a sentence while they are strongly connected to the knowledge / culture / habits of the sender (and / or the reader). That is a very important misconception, and make them improper for a corpus of sentence. Two French natives living in the same place could understand the same symbol differently, which do not happens with words. So if we talk about translating an emoji from somebody unknown on the other side of the planet....

As a corpus of sentence, using emoji on a sentence is selfishly imposing on every other translation an intended sense. That is synonym to impoverishment of the corpus. The same sentence can be understood as ironical, aggressive, or kind, and have as many translations. Emoji break this richness of corpora.

Adding emoji is the open door to what we French people call "un grand n'importe quoi". For example, I wonder how you will you deal with kaomojis? (# ̄ω ̄) (╥﹏╥) m(_ _)m

verdastelo9604 verdastelo9604 June 9, 2018 June 9, 2018 at 9:58:10 AM UTC link Permalink

It's not emoji, it's kaomoji.

TRANG TRANG June 9, 2018 June 9, 2018 at 1:09:25 PM UTC link Permalink

While I agree 100% with you that they are part of our culture, I'd say they are still too recent.

Like Aiji mentioned, they are not a "standard" part of any language. It's something we wouldn't know how to handle at this point.

How do we judge what is a correct emoji and what is not? How do we judge what is a correct translation of a sentence with emojis? How can we allow emojis without creating an army of near duplicates?

We're just not ready.

Give 10 years or so, maybe by then we'll figure out how to officially allow emojis in Tatoeba without turning the corpus into nonsense.

sabretou sabretou June 9, 2018 June 9, 2018 at 1:23:36 PM UTC link Permalink

Are there any emoji that are exclusive to a particular language? Is this something that a language learner would have to learn while picking up a language? I'm no expert, but I do imagine that ":-D" is universal, and can be used in English, German, French, Russian, and so on. It can theoretically be used even in Latin or Sanskrit. I think emojis are independent of languages.

Allowing emojis on Tatoeba could lead to a lot of pointless, extraneous sentences that add nothing to the corpus. Imagine:

Tom went to the market.
Tom went to the market. :)
Tom went to the market. :(
Tom went to the market. :D
Tom went to the market. :'(

And so on. Is there any language where these emoji-laced sentences will be translated differently than the base sentence? Conversely, is there any language that forbids emoji explicitly?

Emoji are a part of culture, and might even be considered a language unto their own. But I do not think they are a part of any existing language, and so they serve us no purpose on Tatoeba.

Acronyms and abbreviations are a different story. I think modern acronyms like 'irl', 'brb', 'cya', etc. all have a place here.