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Meksems Meksems September 28, 2019 September 28, 2019 at 1:08:54 AM UTC link Permalink

Hello. Azul.
Did Tatoeba become the algerian government?
How can anyone explain me, the fact that a person who didn't ever contribute to a corpus, can oneday decide to change a flag? How can this be possible?
Many people who are demanding to change the Kabyle flag, are New here.
Tatoeba can check them and find out but no. Nothing is done.
You are ignoring many facts. You should reconsider your decision and listen the other side.

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Thanuir Thanuir September 28, 2019 September 28, 2019 at 7:25:18 AM UTC link Permalink

Hi, these matters have been extensively discussed in the earlier threads start by Trang. I suggest reading those.

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Meksems Meksems September 28, 2019 September 28, 2019 at 8:31:14 AM UTC link Permalink

You say discussed? No.
Sorry but Trang has just annonced the decision.
Like the algerian government, Trang just banned a flag because a person was demanding that.

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Ricardo14 Ricardo14 September 28, 2019 September 28, 2019 at 9:55:11 AM UTC link Permalink

Hey, take it easy!!! Let's read again Trang's post (some very specific parts that you might not have read)

> We still *consider* that we *should/ change the Kabyle icon, but we are *not* completely decided on using the Berber flag as a replacement.

How come "consider", "should" and "we are not completely decided" means that something is going to change for sure?

> The only solution left that *I see is*:

See? She's trying to figure out what to do. As for now, that correct way *would* be (but it may change if you give Tatoeba solid reasons to not doing so).

> It's a more expensive option for us, as it takes time and creativity to design a new icon.
> But *I guess* we have to explore this possibility in order to claim we have been as fair as possible.

Again, how come "I guess" means "I'm going to do something" or "I will do something"?

»►If this idea doesn't sound reasonable to you, then please explain objectively why we shouldn't create a custom icon.

This the most interesting point you might not have read but rephrasing: The KAB flag is here. *****Perhaps***** we need to change it. If you don't agree, tell us. However, give us enough, good reasons for not doing so.

>> We also ask everyone to stop accusing and insulting each other.

;)

>> We consider that everyone who expressed their opinion is good at heart and deserves respect

;) ♥

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AlanF_US AlanF_US September 28, 2019 September 28, 2019 at 3:12:54 PM UTC link Permalink

Well put, Ricardo.

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Ricardo14 Ricardo14 September 28, 2019 September 28, 2019 at 6:34:06 PM UTC link Permalink

@Alan - Thank you! :) Just trying to make some points clearer :)

@Pfirsichbaeumchen - Yes, I do want the same: More sentences, translations, tags...

Ricardo14 Ricardo14 September 28, 2019 September 28, 2019 at 9:55:38 AM UTC link Permalink

https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/sh...#message_32964 ???

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Meksems Meksems September 28, 2019 September 28, 2019 at 5:24:21 PM UTC link Permalink

Trang doesn't want to receive Any other explanation.
How can I take it easy? I can't.
You made a decision for only kab language.
All the flags must be removed.
The First one who has begin this is Amastan by attacking the kab team.
You can't say that the decision was not based on that.
You decided to remove my visual identity.
You're playing the same game as the algerian gov.
So, Please don't say me that it's wonderful....

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Ricardo14 Ricardo14 September 28, 2019 September 28, 2019 at 6:28:15 PM UTC link Permalink

Hey, calm down, please! Tatoeba is not a political organization and DO care about people's feelings. In other words, anything that might be harmful (sentences, tags, users, language icons - which in most of the cases is a flag of a country... Everything to create peace and harmony).

Let's again analyse your sentences...

>> Trang doesn't want to receive Any other explanation.

Where on earth is it clear? At least for anyone who can read some English, it's the opposite. "But *I guess* we have to explore this possibility in order to claim we have been as fair as possible." (I guess = I'm not sure , possibility = not decided yet)

More:

"**If this idea doesn't sound reasonable to you**, then »please explain objectively why we shouldn't create a custom icon.

Again, in other words: If you don't agree what's being proposed (it means, Tatoeba is listening to your opinion). However, Tatoeba needs an explanation! That's all!!!!

>> How can I take it easy? I can't.

It ****might**** mean (possibility, perhaps, maybe) that something is wrong. If you know what's correct, put it here and explain in a clear, objective, transparent way. That's all! If I want to change Tatoeba's logo, for example, I need to tell them why: Give evidences, show them why and how the new logo would be great. No website, job, school just accepts an answer like "oh, it's right because I think so.".

>> You made a decision for only kab language.

What have Tatoeba decided? Also where can I find such evidence (a decision has been taken and ta da, game over?) Let's read her post ***again***

" We still *consider* that we *should/ change the Kabyle icon, but we are *not* completely decided on using the Berber flag as a replacement."

"consider" means "well, we don't know if we're going to do or not". How come is it a final decision? Could you please elaborate?

>> All the flags must be removed.

Why? We need evidences. No flags here hurt a ny group of people - Russian flag, Portuguese flag, German flag, Italian flag, Japanese, Chinese, Danish, Scottish, Ladin... Nobody, no "group of people" complained about them and you might noticed that in some cases we do use a neutral flag to avoid hurting people's feelings (which has been working!)

>> The First one who has begin this is Amastan by attacking the kab team.

Trang said "We consider that everyone who expressed their opinion is good at heart and deserves respect" Everyone. Point fingers is kinda childish, don't you think? Everyone deserves to be respected! She also said: "We also ask everyone to stop accusing and insulting each other." Why are you doing the opposite?

>> You can't say that the decision was not based on that.

Again, which decision? It's being discussed (a looooot), we've listened many, many opinions and the decision hasn't been made. Again:

"But *I guess* we have to explore this possibility in order to claim we have been as fair as possible." (I guess = I'm not sure , possibility = not decided yet)

"We still *consider* that we *should/ change the Kabyle icon, but we are *not* completely decided on using the Berber flag as a replacement."

How come "consider", "should" and "we are not completely decided" means that something is going to change for sure?

>> You decided to remove my visual identity.

Not clear here. you mean, your profile picture? Nothing has been said about that
KAB flag? as exposed before, nothing changed. It's being discussed.

>> You're playing the same game as the algerian gov.

Which game? Tatoeba is not a website to play games and also we're *******not****** affiliated to any government. Once more you're saying something without evidence - or worse: sating something that is untrue.