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Ergulis Ergulis September 22, 2019, edited September 22, 2019 September 22, 2019 at 10:13:19 AM UTC, edited September 22, 2019 at 12:05:36 PM UTC link Permalink

Upon receiving a private message pertaining my translations into English, I decided to write here to get your opinion about the matter.

While I understand that translating into native language is prefered here on Tatoeba, I see no reason why I should refrain from translating my own sentences into English as well, especially when I am advanced in English.

Considering the number of my English sentences, rarely I am notified about grammar mistakes. If there are any, they are made mostly out of inattention and fixed promptly.
Even native speakers can make, and they also do, some mistakes every now and then.

I admit that some of my translations may sound a bit unnatural but there is always a possibility to add a comment in such a case, isn't it?

I will gladly hear and appreciate every note by English native speakers about my translations, but I see no reason why I should stop translating my own sentences into English for good.

I still hope that it isn't against Tatoeba's rules to translate from a native tongue.
Or it is?




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TRANG TRANG September 22, 2019 September 22, 2019 at 4:55:00 PM UTC link Permalink

It is not against Tatoeba's rule to translate from your native language into English. It is only a recommendation (especially for newer contributors) to avoid an overflow of possibly bad sentences.

If you have been contributing for long enough, feel comfortable with how Tatoeba works and are confident you can create good English translations, I don't see why we should be against you translating from your native language into English.

My personal opinion is that if someone takes the effort to create original and interesting sentences in their native language, it would be fair to give them the chance to expand their sentences to more languages by letting them translate into English. If the native language is not a very popular language, who else than the author themselves will translate those sentences into English?

If you think you have been unnecessarily pressured to contribute only in your native language, feel free to let us know.

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Ergulis Ergulis September 22, 2019 September 22, 2019 at 5:08:24 PM UTC link Permalink

Thanks you very much for the reply, TRANG.

I really appreciate your attitude.

AlanF_US AlanF_US September 25, 2019 September 25, 2019 at 3:11:29 AM UTC link Permalink

I'd like to elaborate on TRANG's words:

> It is not against Tatoeba's rule to translate from your native language into English. It is only a recommendation (especially for newer contributors) to avoid an overflow of possibly bad sentences

with some concrete suggestions as to how non-native speakers can avoid creating bad sentences.

(1) Use a standard dialect of the language. Sentences in nonstandard dialects are much harder to get right.
(2) Don't try to push the boundaries of the language. If you discover that 80% of native speakers contain a particular usage an error, even if you find a blog post somewhere that claims that it shouldn't be considered one, be conservative and don't use it.
(3) If you're an advanced contributor, use the tag "@needs native check", especially when you're unsure whether the sentence is correct. (Note: do not use "@NNC" or "NNC" or any other variants. Sentences with "@needs native check" and "@check" are special because they are listed on a particular page that corpus maintainers check frequently.)
(4) If you're not an advanced contributor, consider finding a native speaker to review your sentences, particularly the ones you're not sure about.
(5) Avoid writing lots of similar sentences. Not only does it undermine diversity, and make the site more boring, but if you're a non-native speaker, there is a chance that you're repeating the same mistake in all of them, which makes them tedious to correct.
(6) Check your non-native sentences regularly to see whether anyone has written comments on them, and respond accordingly.

Thanks.

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Ergulis Ergulis September 25, 2019 September 25, 2019 at 3:04:46 PM UTC link Permalink

I will follow your advice.

I especially like the idea about "@needs native check" and I will use it whenever I am unsure about the correctness of some translation.

Thanks

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deniko deniko September 25, 2019, edited September 25, 2019 September 25, 2019 at 4:22:33 PM UTC, edited September 25, 2019 at 4:23:58 PM UTC link Permalink

You can apply for Advanced contributor and you'll be able to add @needs native check as a tag, not as a comment. It's easier to search by tags than by comments.

For example, sentences tagged with @needs native check in English:

https://tatoeba.org/eng/Tags/sh...h_tag/1207/eng

In Czech - this is what you might want to help with - most probably added by non-native speakers:

https://tatoeba.org/eng/Tags/sh...h_tag/1207/ces

Aiji Aiji September 29, 2019 September 29, 2019 at 2:23:37 AM UTC link Permalink

Alleluiah, thank you!
I suggest to add your advice to the contributor's guide page :)

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AlanF_US AlanF_US September 29, 2019 September 29, 2019 at 2:49:48 PM UTC link Permalink

I'm glad you liked it. I had intended to write it up as a wiki page, and now I have:

https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...ow/non-native#

Thanuir Thanuir September 23, 2019 September 23, 2019 at 7:15:57 PM UTC link Permalink

I think there is a recommendation to mostly add sentences in one's native language, but no requirement.

Personally, I find the website has quite a lot of sentences in English, and much less in Finnish (my native language), so I prefer to contribute mostly in Finnish.

Further, English is very well linked, so I also try to translate from other languages I know, so that everything does not revolve only around English, though I also link English sentences whenever I see an opportunity, of course.

Since I am better with my native language than English, and contributions to it are a rarer commodity, I see little reason to contribute much in English. I guess you have different priorities or the Czech language is in a different situation.

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Ergulis Ergulis September 24, 2019, edited September 24, 2019 September 24, 2019 at 3:38:17 PM UTC, edited September 24, 2019 at 4:32:20 PM UTC link Permalink

Thanks for your contribution.

I also prefer and predominantly translate into my native language. But...

The thing is that sometimes, I get a bit bored with that one-sided way of translanting, it especially pertains to sentences of the same pattern.

Moreover, the possibility of translating my sentences into English makes my work here more enjoyable, it isn't so monotonous. It is also a good way of practising and reinforcing my English knowledge.

Another reason why I translate into English is that I want my sentences to be available for others as well. Some of my sentences also convey a message or reflect my personality, opinions and experiences.

Why should I wait for someone eligible enough to translate them someday, in a week, month, year, or maybe never, when I can do it myself?

I wouldn't dare to translate into English if my English wasn't advanced, which I am afraid that isn't always the case here. It is, however, up to Admins and Corpus maintainers to decide how to deal with those bad sentences and their creators.

For me, it is always important that my sentences make sense and are grammatically correct, even though they may not sound natural every time.

Czech is difficult language and sometimes it is really hard to translate/ transfer an idea into English precisely.

So, Instead of expressing wishes that I would stop translating into English, I appreciate every comment on my sentences from a native speaker, if something is wrong.

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deniko deniko September 24, 2019 September 24, 2019 at 3:59:13 PM UTC link Permalink

> Another reason why I translate into English is that I want my sentences to be available for others as well.

Also, if a sentence is not translated into English it's basically a waste of disk space anyway.

And since there's a very low chance that a native speaker translates a Ukrainian sentence into English, the only way to make it less useless is to try and translate it myself.

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Pfirsichbaeumchen Pfirsichbaeumchen September 24, 2019 September 24, 2019 at 4:42:21 PM UTC link Permalink

> Also, if a sentence is not translated into English it's basically a waste of disk space anyway.

Який сумний світ, чи не так? 😕

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deniko deniko September 25, 2019 September 25, 2019 at 4:10:10 PM UTC link Permalink

> Який сумний світ, чи не так?

It's alright, it is the way it is ;)

brauchinet brauchinet September 25, 2019, edited September 25, 2019 September 25, 2019 at 5:00:31 AM UTC, edited September 25, 2019 at 5:10:53 AM UTC link Permalink

Ha, what a pitiful waste of diskspace: #1636608

#1226287
#4724804

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deniko deniko September 25, 2019 September 25, 2019 at 4:10:22 PM UTC link Permalink

I know, right? :)

cojiluc cojiluc September 25, 2019 September 25, 2019 at 8:16:03 AM UTC link Permalink

>Also, if a sentence is not translated into English it's basically a waste of disk space anyway.

Why?

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deniko deniko September 25, 2019 September 25, 2019 at 4:15:50 PM UTC link Permalink

>>Also, if a sentence is not translated into English it's basically a waste of disk space anyway.

> Why?

Because it's the lingua franca of the modern world.

Thanuir Thanuir September 24, 2019 September 24, 2019 at 5:19:04 PM UTC link Permalink

I get variety by translating from different languages.

Sometimes random sentences. Sometimes sentences that have not been translated into any language, and sometimes those not translated to Finnish.

And sometimes I add original sentences based on the vocabulary feature, sometimes based on fancy, and sometimes taking them from a source free of intellectual monopoly concerns.

You are, of course, free to do as you will.

Maybe you can translate some of these Slovak sentences not translated into any language yet: https://tatoeba.org/deu/sentenc...o=&sort=random

Or maybe some Russian ones: https://tatoeba.org/deu/sentenc...o=&sort=random

Or maybe Spanish: https://tatoeba.org/deu/sentenc...o=&sort=random

And so on. I would hope that this would add to the variety, and also help make the prophecy of @Deniko not true - someone has added those sentences to a non-English language, hoping someone will come along and translate them.

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deniko deniko September 25, 2019 September 25, 2019 at 4:18:39 PM UTC link Permalink

> @Deniko

I wonder why I didn't get a notification about me being mentioned by you. I usually do. Maybe nicknames are case sensitive though.

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Thanuir Thanuir September 25, 2019 September 25, 2019 at 4:25:48 PM UTC link Permalink

I'll try to remember the small initial next time.

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soliloquist soliloquist September 25, 2019 September 25, 2019 at 6:07:11 PM UTC link Permalink

https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/sh...#message_30080

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deniko deniko September 25, 2019 September 25, 2019 at 6:25:36 PM UTC link Permalink

Ah, that's curious, didn't know that.

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Ricardo14 Ricardo14 September 25, 2019 September 25, 2019 at 9:13:11 PM UTC link Permalink

https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/1961