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Muro (5459 fadenoj)

CK
CK
2019-07-14 09:05 - 2019-07-14 09:20
Ther are over 18,000 English sentences with audio that have no translations

Sort: Last Created
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...e&sort=created

Sort: Random
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...de&sort=random

Perhaps you would enjoy translating some of these into your own native language.

18,529 out of 433,558 (4.27%) had no translations on July 14, 2019 at 9:00 UTC.

If you want to see the sentences that have the most-recently uploaded English audio files, then you can browse my list at http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentence...direction=desc . The newest audio files are at the top.
kaŝi la respondojn
mmorelfmc
2019-07-10 21:49 - 2019-07-10 21:52
Here is a situation where I would need the more experienced users to propose how to resolve it.

The problem is with Sentence #13214:

< Bin, aimes-tu le baseball ? >

The author used "Bin" which is an expression from Québec:

http://www.je-parle-quebecois.c...n/ben-bin.html

(Also the pronunciation of "in" in French doesn't really have a equivalent in English or Esperanto [I don't know about other languages]. It is not "bin" like in "storage bin". See
https://french.stackexchange.co...-a-back-vowel)

Simply said, it means in English, "Well", like in:

< Well, do you like baseball? >

or in Esperanto, "Nu", like in:

< Nu, ĉu vi ŝatas la basbalon? >

or in more international French, "Alors", like in:

< Alors, aimes-tu le baseball ? >

However, everyone who translated the original sentence assumed that "Bin" was the name of a person. This resulted in some very silly sentences like:

Do you like baseball, Bin?
Bin, houd je van honkbal?
¿Te gusta el béisbol, Bin?
Ĉu vi ŝatas la basbalon, Bin?

and with the Galician sentence, "Bin" was even replaced by "Bill".

How do we go about fixing this mass hallucination?

kaŝi la respondojn
soweli_Elepanto
2019-07-10 22:38
Personally I think that no need to do anything about it. Those "wrong" translations indeed may be as good as the "right" ones. Your case is not unique. For example, the name "Tom", when translated _from_ Russian, can be understood as "volume", and "Tom's" can be understood not only as "of volume", but as "volumes" as well.
kaŝi la respondojn
mmorelfmc
2019-07-10 22:51
What happens with cases like the "Tom-confused-as-volume"? If an original English sentence is about Tom but the Russian translation makes it about volume, then the translation is false. Is there a mechanism (perhaps a tag? a marker?) to indicate that the meaning of a translated sentence differs significantly from the original sentence?
kaŝi la respondojn
Impersonator
2019-07-11 07:14
> If an original English sentence
> is about Tom but the Russian translation
> makes it about volume, then
> the translation is false.

Russian would be about *both* Tom and volume. The word 'tom' means 'volume' in Russian, and if 'volume' is placed at the beginning of the sentence, then it will be written with a capital letter.

If Russian is only about a volume, then it's a mistake and it should be unlinked from the translation.
Aiji
2019-07-11 13:22
Considering "Bin" as a name or as the equivalent to "Ben" would both give correct translations. Of course, one could argue that "Bin" is a silly name, etc. but basically I don't think there is anything wrong (as long as the misunderstanding is not systematic)

We can also use tags, for example we have a "français du Canada" tag. Although nobody would read it when translating because it wouldn't be displayed on a results list.

And finally, one can leave a comment to say that Bin = Ben.
Objectivesea
2019-07-11 08:29
These sorts of misapprehensions can often be prevented by supplying a usage note in a comment with an unusual word's actual meaning when creating the original sentence.
kaŝi la respondojn
mmorelfmc
2019-07-11 23:04
Mia amiko, vi parolas la vero.
Thanuir
2019-07-12 17:31
Contribute the translations you deem as correct. A sentence can mean several different things.
deniko
2019-07-11 15:34
Tag auto-completion.

A while ago I made a mistake and tagged a sentence with the tag "matheamatics" instead of "mathematics". I immediately removed that tag, and added the correct one, but now every time I start typing "math" to add a tag, "matheamatics" is on the list:

https://i.imgur.com/g7Zkwq8.png

There are currently no sentences for the tag "matheamatics".

https://tatoeba.org/eng/tags/sh..._tag/10425/eng

Can auto-completion be modified not to suggests tags with zero sentences?
kaŝi la respondojn
Guybrush88
2019-07-11 16:56
CK
CK
2019-07-11 02:38 - 2019-07-11 09:49
Screenshot from 5 years ago.

https://prnt.sc/odea8o
Number of Sentences 2014-07-11 at 22.56.43.png

Screenshot from today.

https://prnt.sc/odj9b2
Number of Sentences 2019-07-11 at 18.48.08.png

Timestamps are Japan Standard Time (UTC+9)
Ricardo14
2019-07-08 04:02
I've found some untranslated strings in the French UI and also a "missed capitalization"

http://prntscr.com/obww80
https://tatoeba.org/fra/stats/s...es_by_language

Low German (Low Saxon)
Norwegian Bokmål
waray-waray
cébouano
Guadeloupean Creole French
bouriate
Gothic
Kven Finnish
Gulf Arabic
Ligurian
Central Mnong
samoan
papiamento
arabe levantin septentrional
Fiji Hindi
niuéen
adyguéen
Gheg Albanian
marshallais
moyen français
Tongan
touvinien
vieux norrois
gilbertin
Chinese Pidgin English
Old Turkish
vieux saxon
hakka
ojibwé

kaŝi la respondojn
Thanuir
2019-07-08 05:16
Also: "Norwegian Nynorsk"
kaŝi la respondojn
Ricardo14
2019-07-08 14:04
You can apply on Transifex to translate UI strings - https://www.transifex.com/tatoeba/
theachaean
2019-07-10 22:06
I don't have a Transifex account, but someone else could add that one:
Guadeloupean Creole French → Créole guadeloupéen

(Even if I do not understand why all language names all begin with a capital for French because in French there is normally no capital for language names.)
Objectivesea
2019-07-01 10:56
I know that it has been argued previously that it is best to try to use a small, more or less universal, set of personal names and placenames for the Tatoeba project, whilst others have preferred to use locally known or historically significant names from their own culture or country. While I don't wish to privilege some specific names above others, and a person's attachment to locally significant names is certainly understandable, perhaps even laudable, there are very practical advantages to consistently using a small set of names.

As an example, the names Sofia, Adamo and Lidia and the town of Bjalistoko are culturally relevant to Esperantists because the names are those of Esperanto founder L.L. Zamenhof's children, sadly murdered in Hitler's extermination camps, and the Polish town of Białystok is where Zamenhof lived for many years.

But Esperantists using the Tatoeba site, attempting to hew to some universality, will generally use the names Tomo or Toĉjo, Maria or Manjo, Johano or Joĉjo, which are regularly formed variations of the English names Tom, Mary and John, and Bostono, the Esperanto proper noun corresponding to Boston.

Similarly, there are traditional Arabic or Berber forms of names that are closely related to the names Tom, Mary and John, and the name Boston surely is findable on an Arabic world map. In my opinion there should be no problem with using these consistently in order to prevent the near-duplications that arise when we pick a different set of names like Sami, Layla, or Mennad, etc. Here are my suggestions; I wonder what others think:

Tom توماس
Mary مريم
John يوحنا
Boston بوسطن
kaŝi la respondojn
Impersonator
2019-07-02 13:10 - 2019-07-02 13:36
> there are very practical advantages to consistently
> using a small set of names

There are also practical advantages to *not* using them:

1. Names are words that can be translated. E.g. Russian names are translated in Belarusian (Елизавета/Yelizavieta becomes Лізавета/Lizavieta), while English names aren't (Elizabeth becomes Элізабэт/Elizabet; unless she's a queen, then she's Лізавета/Lizavieta). You're losing a great deal of information by forcing all names to be 'Tom' and 'Mary'.

2. Names are words that follow some language rules. Names are declined differently (e.g. Russian declines 'Darwin' and 'Pushkin' differently), spelt differently (e.g. Lithuanian surnames like Чюрлёнис 'Čiurlionis' are the only case when ю, я can follow ч in Russian), capitalised differnently, get different suffixes and prefixes, etc. Again, all this is often lost during the unification.

Unifying names will make Tatoeba less useful. E.g. imagine creating a language detector. If you replace Shymkent with Boston, Tatoeba will have no examples of Шы in Russian, so a detector based on Tatoeba data will likely to misdetect sentences about Shymkent as non-Russian.


If we unify names, then why not unify other words too? Let's unify all actions to 'eat' and all objects to 'apple'. We'd have a lot of sentences like 'I don't mind eating an apple', 'I've never eaten an apple' and 'I'd like to eat an apple', etc. Surely this would reduce a lot of duplication!

This is reductio ad absurdum, but I believe it's not really different from the name unification. *Of course* we will get less duplication if we discard a lot of information! But that's hardly practical.
kaŝi la respondojn
Shishir
2019-07-02 19:58
+1
Ricardo14
2019-07-02 22:25
+1,000
soweli_Elepanto
2019-07-02 22:47
+1
AlanF_US
2019-07-03 00:22
If we add together Shishir, Ricardo14, and soweli_Elepanto's votes, and throw in one for Seael and one for me, we get 1004 votes against restricting vocabulary to "Tom" and "Mary" (and "apple"). I have always thought that the people who favor the restrictions were in quite a small minority (fewer than five, let's say), but an influential one, because at least one of those people has, over the years,
- contributed a huge number of sentences in the best represented and most translated language (English),
- selected sentences with that restricted subset of names when compiling lists for other people to translate, and
- complained regularly when people wrote sentences that included names not in the subset

Just for the record, these restrictions were never a Tatoeba policy, and there's nothing to stop people from writing sentences with other names. (Of course, there's nothing to stop other people from writing or selecting only sentences that feature "Tom", "Mary", "Boston", and "apple".)
kaŝi la respondojn
seveleu_dubrovnik
2019-07-08 10:14
And +1 for me. Concerning East Slavic languages, “Mary” is an awful choice. It has defective (read incomplete) declination pattern. The inability to use local names compromises the entire Slavic scheme of syntactic encoding with cases. E.g. “Я описал Мэри” ‘I describe·PAST Mary·ANYCASE’ ‘I described Mary to someone’ or ‘I described someone to Mary’. À bannir.
Thanuir
2019-07-03 13:04
Minäkin olen samaa mieltä.
CK
CK
2019-07-03 01:17 - 2019-07-03 01:18
My feeling is that if a moderately-competent language learner knows how to make the appropriate changes, then we don't really need a lot of near-duplicate sentences with the only difference being the person's name.

Being a collection of sentences, we're not trying to take the place of textbooks.

Here are a few of the advantages of using a set of wildcards as described on http://bit.ly/tatoebawildcards.

* We get more translations grouped together. That is, instead of "My name is George" being translated into German, "My name is Fred" translated into French, "My name is Dan" translated into Spanish, etc., we can get many languages grouped together with "My name is Tom." This also means that we can see indirectly-translated sentences that have the potential of being directly linked.

* If a Russian contributor contributes a sentence with the equivalent of "Tom", there is a chance that the same basic sentence already exists in another language and these will eventually be linked as people notice indirect translations.

* Using the wildcards also means that the same contributor doesn't accidentally submit basically the same sentence that he/she did earlier with a different name. Tatoeba.org doesn't let the exact same sentence to be submitted again.

* For the same reason, if you add a translation to an existing sentence with the "Tom" equivalent already in the database, the sentence you are translating gets linked directly to that sentence, also showing any indirectly-linked translations that may already exist.


kaŝi la respondojn
Impersonator
2019-07-03 08:24 - 2019-07-03 16:02
> My feeling is that if a moderately-competent
> language learner knows how to make the
> appropriate changes

My feeling is that languages are often the *sole* examples of some linguistic phenomena.

For example, in English, the digraph ff at the beginning of the words might be capitalised ff (not Ff): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R...roness_ffrench

I doubt a moderately-competent language learner knows this. Heck, I doubt many native speakers know this! This is very useful as a sample data for all kinds of automatic capitalisation algorithms. But too bad for their authors, because Castle ffrench will be replaced with Boston, and Rose ffrench will be replaced with Mary.

Another example. What's the possessive case of Jesus, Jesus' or Jesus's? I assume I'd use Jesus' about a biblical Jesus, but what about people named Jesus from Spain? I consider myself a relatively competent English speaker, but I have no idea! Having examples with the possessive cases for names ending in -s would certainly help (especially if they had audio, because 's might have a vowel inserted sometimes).

More examples from other languages:

In Russian, there are two ways to say someone's: genitive case (комната Саши room Sasha's.GEN) and adjective (Сашина комната Sasha's.ADJ.FEM.SG room). However, adjectives are only formed from common local names, and sound strange with Tom and Mary. We have only 1 example of an adjective from Tom in the whole corpus, #922679. This makes it looks like adjectives are no longer used, so corpus with Tom misrepresents Russian grammar.

In Belarusian, some people don't know how to decline many uncommon names. For example, in Belarusian, the genitive case of Зміцер/Źmicier is Змітра/Źmitra, but many people would say Зміцера/Źmiciera. Having diverse names would help to understand the conjugation of the words.

___________________


This is even worse with languages and cities. Often, some languages have special words for some cities and languages, while others don't. For example,

- Russian has an illogical way of forming words like 'people of <city>' (like Boston > Bostonians), e.g.: Boston - bostonTSY, Moskva - moskvICHI, Minsk - minCHANIE, Varshava - varshavIANIE, Kiev - KievLIANIE, Odessa - odessITY, Arhkangelsk - arkhangelOGORODTSY, etc. If you only keep Boston, you'll miss most of these forms.

- Portuguese treats 'wine of Boston' (vinho de Boston) and 'wine of Porto' (vinho do Porto) as the same construction, while other languages might have a separate word for Porto wine (English Port wine, Russian портвейн), but don't have a word for Boston wine.

- Russian words for language can be placed either before the word (французский язык 'French language') or after (язык хинди 'Hindi language'). Usually you can guess it by the word form, but not always (коми язык 'Komi language' looks like Hindi, but is placed like French)

- Many languages have special words for '<language>-speaking', e.g. 'Francophone', 'Lusophone', but don't have words for other languages (Hindiphone??? Komiphone???)

___________________

All those things are not something we can expect from a 'moderately-competent language learner'.
kaŝi la respondojn
Aiji
2019-07-03 14:19
Long story short (although the long story is important), some people wants to bend the source to fit their tools, instead of adapting their tools. That's not new.

Placeholders inside the source is not good for corpora, whereas placeholders inside tools are so awesome and beautiful. (because seeing flexions and stuff changing live is cool)

In many cases, redundancy does not equal waste. Around a few percents, that is quite negligible in my opinion.
mmorelfmc
2019-07-07 14:04
Pardon my beginner's question. I see sentences that could be linked. However, by rules, basic users are requested to ask an advanced user:

https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...intro-linking#

Thus my question: what is the best way to "ask an advanced user"? Does one post the request here on the wall? Does one send a message to an advanced user? If so, whom would be the best person to?

Thanks,
kaŝi la respondojn
AlanF_US
2019-07-07 14:17 - 2019-07-07 14:56
I updated the wiki page. It now says:

If you are an advanced contributor, you can do [the linking] yourself. If you are not, please leave a comment on the source or translation to ask an advanced contributor to do it for you. If you find that your requests are not being addressed, you can add the name of an advanced contributor, preceded by the @ symbol, to your comments. You can find advanced contributors on the "Community -> Languages of members" page. It is best to choose one who has been active recently.
kaŝi la respondojn
mmorelfmc
2019-07-07 15:59
Hey thanks! That helps a lot.
kaŝi la respondojn
AlanF_US
2019-07-07 23:50
Glad to hear it! If you find anything else unclear, please let us know.
Thanuir
2019-07-08 05:20
You can also add the sentence as a direct translation. The two copies of the sentence should be automatically merged.

Though in case of French, they are only merged if the spaces or lack thereof before any exclamation or question marks also match.
CK
CK
2019-06-28 23:39
Here is a YouTube video that I just uploaded.

1,570 "Why" Sentences from the Tatoeba Corpus (2hrs 22mins) - Listen and Repeat

https://youtu.be/yuuRyACIvYM


If you want to see existing translations and/or want to translate these sentences, you can use the following links.

These links will show the sentences in the same order that they are on the video.


Show all translations. This will mean you have to do a lot more scrolling, so it's better to limit translations to your own language.
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc.../direction:asc


Show Italian (ita) translations if they exist.
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...&direction=asc

Show German (deu) translations if they exist.
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...&direction=asc

Show French (fra) translations if they exist.
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...&direction=asc

Show Russian (rus) translations if they exist.
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...&direction=asc

Show Hungarian (hun) translations if they exist.
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...&direction=asc


Show Esperanto (epo) translations if they exist.
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...&direction=asc

If you want to see translations into another language, change the 3-letter code between /9185/ and ?sort.

/show/9185/epo?sort

(Change the "epo" to the three-letter code for your language.)
CK
CK
2019-07-06 08:18 - 2019-07-06 09:11
http://tatoeba.byethost3.com/nativespeakers/

Learn the usernames of the native speakers of the language that you are studying.

Get links for studying and translating their sentences.

This page will also show you the usernames of members with your native language.

This has been updated with sentence counts from the 2019-07-06 exported data.
Ricardo14
2019-07-03 19:36
Sorry for this naive question but I'd like to link Portuguese sentences into Spanish, English, French, German and Greek (if there's any translation available).

For now I have two options only

1 - search a specific query like "Eu quero" - https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...rom=por&to=und

2 - On settings, choose only por, deu, fra, eng, spa, ell

So I have either to choose a specific query or limit the languages I'd like to link sentences always I'm going to do it. Isn't there an easier way? Isn't there a way to allow Advanced Search looks for sentences in more than one language?
kaŝi la respondojn
Objectivesea
2019-07-04 07:24
I don't really understand your problem, Ricardo14. I have set my settings to "eng, epo, fra, dan, nob, deu, por, ita". This means that I see only English, Esperanto, French, Danish, Norwegian Bokmål, German, Portuguese and Italian sentences and translations. I do not see Russian or Turkish or Chinese or olther languages with which I am not familiar. If I wanted not to see Portuguese or Italian sentences, I would just delete the last two options from my list. So your option 2 is probably optimal for you.

I see that the great majority of sentences you have posted are in Portuguese, which is presumably your strongest language.

As you point out, you could, for example, choose to see only Greek sentences without a Portuguese translation. If you well understand the meaning of those untranslated sentences, you could furnish Tatoeba with good Portuguese-equivalent sentences, which would be a nice service.
kaŝi la respondojn
Ricardo14
2019-07-04 20:26
but if I want to "fast-link" (only link), I'd have to make a query AND set up Tatoeba to the languages I want. Maybe there is an easier way but I don't know how...