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Every lexical correspondence CAN be explained scientifically: languages have a large number of morphemes, and a limited number of phonemes, so certain combinations are inevitably going to match between languages. To help determine if a pair of words are truly cognates (come from the same origin), we MUST look at the languages they descended from, as well as sister languages and dialects. If, for example, you see a word in Arabic that looks like a word in Spanish (and has the same or similar meaning), but that word is absent in Latin, Proto-Italic or Proto-Indo-European, then the Spanish and Arabic words cannot be cognates, and the word was either borrowed into Spanish, or was coined after.

We must be careful of this: I personally worked for a Korean company that seeks to prove that Homo Sapiens Sapiens evolved on Korean land, and that all of humanity descends from an ancient Korean civilization (that somehow has eluded all the words archaeologists and historians, and grows in size every year they do a presentation on it), and one of their tools is linguistic evidence that other languages descended from 'Ancient Korean', by doing what? By finding words that sound similar and have similar meaning; they did this with Sumerian, Ancient Greek, Latin and Sanskrit. But all they came up with are precisely coincidences: words that had no equivalent in Proto-Indo-European or other Indo-European languages... and as for Sumerian, all of their entries were incorrect Sumerian words, or words that had other meanings than they claimed. It IS a shame, because there are a lot of reconstructed Proto-Nostratic words that evolved similarly between all of Ancient Greek, Latin, Sanskrit, and Old/Middle/Modern Korean.

I do. As I do of Arabic 'kannat', a woman who marries your wife's brother.

Analyzing your other examples:
Crow: Yes. They may have all come from the same origin (Proto-Nostratic *KVrV > Proto-Indo-European *ḱorh₂wós, Proto-Afroasiatic *ɣVrVb-, Proto-Altaic *ki̯ăro).
Earth: Maybe. A couple linguists give Proto-Nostratic *ʔer-a (“earth, ground”) (Bomhard 2015) or *ʔarV̄ (“earth, land, place”) (Dolgopolsky) > Proto-Indo-European *h₁er- and Proto-Afro-Asiatic *ʔ[e]r-t͜ɬ'
Black: No relation. The English word comes from *bʰleg- (to burn or shine), and the Berber word may come from the color of something seen in nature (bark of tree, color of seed, etc.)
It: pure coincidence.
Year: pure coincidence.

One I've always found interesting is Proto-Boreal *mVnV (for 'man') and *kVnV (for 'woman')

Oops, I only saw the bottom Hungarian sentence!
All of the words of the Hungarian sentence: "Zsebemben sok kicsi alma van." are of Turkic origin (though borrowed from different Turkic languages), EXCEPT 'van', which The Tower of Babel claims to be from Proto-Nostratic *woɣlV > Proto-Altaic *ṑlu (which became 'var' in Turkish) and Proto-Uralic *wole- (which became 'van' in Hungarian).
http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bi...42&root=config
It also gives *wVʕ/ɣl as a Proto-Afroasiatic descendant, which has become 'yella' in Kabyle.
It's quite possible that Turkish 'var', Hungarian 'van' and Kabyle 'yella' directly descended from the same word.

Some thousand sentences in each of the Uralic and Altaic languages would be a dream come true. Y-chromosome and mitochondrial migration maps all show a genetic connection between the two groups of people and evidence of a split somewhere in Mongolia or bordering Russia with the Uralic peoples heading west, and the Altaic peoples heading east (see: https://natgeoeducationblog.fil...aplogroups.png and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_N-M231). Clearly the group spoke some form of language just before that split, which would be an ancestor of both the Uralic and Altaic language families.

This one, sadly, is a borrowing. The Hungarian 'zseb' comes from Ottoman Turkish 'جیب' (cep), borrowed from Persian 'جیب' (jib), which in turn comes from the Arabic 'جَيْب' (jayb). The Arabic word was borrowed into Geez 'ገይብ' (gäyb), and the Persian word into Georgian 'ჯიბე' (ǯibe), Hindi: जेब (jeb), among others. The Ottoman Turkish borrowed word was in turn borrowed into Armenian 'ջեբ' (ǰeb), Bulgarian 'джоб' (džob), Greek 'τσέπη' (tsépi), Serbo-Croatian 'џеп' (džep), among others.

I'm a big fan of the site The Tower of Babel, by Sergei Starostin, where he has a huge database of such potential cognates across language families, as a supporter of the Nostratic Hypothesis.
http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bi...?flags=eygtnnl

In fact he has that 'brother' from your example above can be reconstructed to *pVrV in Proto-Borean and to *berV in Proto-Nostratic (possibly meaning 'child' or 'to bear'). Just click on the + sign next to the language families to see how it could have diverged between the language families Proto-Borean would break into. It seems to have been *barar in Proto-Berber, and according to the book Language Planning and Policy in Africa by Richard B. Baldauf, Robert B. Kaplan, the Tamasheq word for 'son' IS 'barar'.
http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bi...31&root=config

I could get lost for hours on that site!

Well, I'm sad to see my language icon for Old Turkish go, but if that's what everyone wants, it'll have to be so.

So, I'll put it up for vote:
Keep Original or use No.1?

Latin and Ancient Greek:
User alexmarcelo suggested in a wall post some weeks ago that our language icons for Latin and Ancient Greek be changed, and it seems we did not finish voting for new icons (or to keep the old ones). I have compiled a list of potential icons for us to vote on (with no.1 being the originals)
https://user-images.githubuserc...3928243578.png

The original wall post is here: (https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/sh...message_29541)

Any new suggestions are of course welcome.

Ah, you're right; I'll take your versions of Guarani and Amharic, but I think that the Hawaiian flag is actually 1:2 proportion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Hawaii), but it definitely looks like it needs to be changed.
None of our active users ever complained about Malayalam, Mohawk, or Tamil, but definitely, if you can show us precisely why they should be changed, we will change them.
As for flag beautification, let us know if you have any ideas – I've beautified a few myself, and I'm sure many of our flags could use a touch-up.

ASIDE FROM KABYLE - does anyone have any issue with any other of our language icons? User sabretou has mentioned to me that 2 Indian languages, Bodo and Maithili should have their language icons changed as well – perhaps to an Indian flag with ISO 639-3 code on the side. We don't have any active Bodo or Maithili users now, so I will make the call to change their icons, unless someone here has a rational objection.

Any other suggestions for changes of language icons (flags)?

<<<you mentioned that the flag is banned in Algeria and that anyone contributing to the Kabyle corpus under this flag faces legal repercussions

I said it COULD become banned, pending on the moves of the MAK. It currently is NOT banned.

<<<I agree with deniko that we shouldn't choose a flag based on how many users/sentences it brings to the project

I gave this argument due to the apolitical nature we strive for in Tatoeba (noting of course, that we cannot avoid politics 100%, however). Despite that, I have faith in humanity; I know that people will tend to stay away from divisive language icons here on Tatoeba, such as the US Confederate Flag or the Nazi flag, and I know – it was in itself ridiculous to even hypothetically assume that either flag as a language icon would bring more progress – even if a few members contribute several sentences under such a nefarious language icon, many MANY more will leave the project, or never join it. As for deniko's comment on blackmail: blackmailing others is a sign of character weakness – if someone is blackmailing us now, they would mostly likely blackmail or bully others here eventually (potentially resulting in the loss of other members), so their threats do not affect my decision in the slightest. I don't usually like utilitarian arguments myself personally, but I am confident that at least in Tatoeba's case, doing things we perceive to be more moral WILL bring the most effective development for the site.

I agree with every other point here, and will myself step back for a short time, analyzing any new information I come across. I expect many private messages to come in the next few days, which I will do my best to read, but I sincerely hope that they only contain new information – anything that was already on the wall (either in English or in French), I have read.

Whichever decision we take in the coming weeks, I (and I hope the rest of the Tatoeba family) thank those who decide to stay with us, especially those who may disagree with our decisions – as TRANG noted, we cannot make everybody happy, but we need as many caring, strong-willed, language-enthusiast members as we can get to build this project to something that can make a global impact: improve literacy, foreign-language learning and preservation of languages.

We will always be here for those who can make a positive difference – even if you feel you have to leave us, you can always find a place here to return to.

@Amazigh_Bedar

I suppose I didn't make some points clear in my post, so I will clarify.

>>>we think that Kabyle is a language, but they consider it as a dialect.

We, here at Tatoeba, see any speech variety with an ISO 639-3 code attributed to it as a language. So for us here too, Kabyle is a proper language.

>>>Our team is apotilitic...

The group of individual members here on Tatoeba to which you refer to as a 'team' is apolitical, so then you all should be behind my decision, because you do not care about the politics of a simple language icon.

>>>If you change the flag, then you want to ban the Kabyle team on tatoeba. you want to discourage them to stop their work.

I, or rather we, want to do no such thing. We welcome you, our brothers from Northern Africa, to continue doing the amazing work you are doing, which is extremely important to the 'literacy of [Kabyle and other Berber peoples, as well as] outsiders learning these beautiful languages.

>>>If the flag does not belong, we will not contribute. We work well because it's our flag and our language.

Then we, and online development of Kabyle will suffer a loss. I hope that you and the group of people you work together with are able to put aside differences to continue your important work with us. It would be very unfortunate to lose you all as members of OUR team – the Tatoeba Project Team of over 40,000 members

>>>I ask the tatoeba admins to keep the flag and the Kabyle language.

The Kabyle language will always remain here for you to come and contribute – you are always welcome here.

(EDIT: I have NOT made the final call to change the Kabyle flag; my preliminary decision was made on the information I had gathered from the wall and my own research – The leader of the MAK movement Ferhat Mehenni himself seems to not have a problem with my Flag#3 here [https://i.ytimg.com/vi/e2zSyotm...sdefault.jpg]: I wonder if any Kabyle contributors do? I wonder if it would make for the best language icon for Kabyle?
It is the holidays here, so I may be slow in replying. However I AM reading all comments. My comment to avoid sending me private messages was a bluff – you CAN, and I knew many people WOULD – I was just hoping that people would organize their thoughts better if they knew I would be critical of them.)

After reading EVERYTHING on the wall and deliberating, my decision on the Kabyle/Berber language icon (flag) is that it will be changed to one of the following:
1) White icon with KAB (https://i.imgur.com/DuQvept.png)
2) Berber icon with KAB (https://i.imgur.com/ZK5s2jk.png)
3) MessDjaaf's idea with KAB (https://i.imgur.com/1TBtnsb.png)
(I didn't want to add colors for fear of misinterpretation of their meaning, but I'll let users here decide. There were other suggestions, but the designs were much too complex for our 30x20pixel icons)
I am leaning towards number 2, though if anyone has any reason why any of the others are better, please let me know (HERE ON THE WALL: PRIVATE MESSAGES ON THE MATTER WILL BE IGNORED).

I remark that Kabyle DOES have the ISO 639-3 code KAB and so will not be removed as a language, but neither will Berber, which does not have such a code, but was added before having an ISO code became a requirement here on the Tatoeba Project. NOTE: Kabyle sentences under the Berber language icon are not to be touched without the author's permission or that of any Corpus Maintainer or Admin – leave Amastan's sentences alone.

As a purely linguistic site, Tatoeba has no interest in politics, so discussion on the legitimacy of the present flag as a language icon representative of the Kabyle language is irrelevant, despite how much it has been disputed on the wall.

I need to make the important note that the criteria for which we are to base all decisions here on Tatoeba should be self-preservation: which choice will bring more users, sentences and quality to the site, or, which choice will be the least harmful to the site?

For example, if I were absolutely convinced that replacing the English language icon with a US Confederate flag would increase the rate at which quality sentences are added to the English language corpus in the long-run (for whatever reason – despite having other users object to the new icon), then I would have no problem changing the icon, no matter how politically nefarious it may be in the eyes of others.

As this pertains to the Kabyle language icon debate: I want users to continue to contribute to the Kabyle language corpus. It is not that I prefer a divide between Kabyle people and other Berber ethnicities, but quite the opposite – I would personally like Kabyle people to embrace their Kabyle identity, while also embracing their larger Berber ethnicity and promoting brotherhood between groups disjointed by politics and history.

Linguistically, the Kabyle language is very different from other Berber languages, and as many international linguistic authorities do, we want to maintain separate corpuses for each of the Berber languages, and allow search results in 'Berber' to reveal sentences in each and every Berber language corpus as well as the main 'Berber' corpus as well (I believe this is in the works right now).

I have been assured by most of the users adding sentences in 'Kabyle' that they are apolitical, which I would really like to believe. This would imply that they are understanding and sensible individuals: the kind crucial to our project. Changing the flag will not affect their contributions and desire to further the development of their language. But, we will lose some of our members, and many new potential ones.

On the other hand, if we were to keep our flag as is, I doubt that people like Amastan (the main contributor to any Berber language corpus) would stop contributing to our site, though our Kabyle contributors would stay as they are. On the surface, it may seem like the more sensible thing to do, in terms of the development of Tatoeba, even if there are quarrels on the wall. However, by not changing the flag, it is hard to gauge how many people will visit our site, see the flag, and not create an account (there's evidence that this has already happened). Moreover, if this flag is actually banned in Algeria, anyone there contributing to the Kabyle corpus with the flag as the language icon faces the risk of legal repercussions; further reducing our site's numbers.

To comments about Tatoeba making the 'mistake' of using flags as language icons: icons need to be clear indicators of what language the sentences are in, and simply having language icons with the ISO 639-3 codes in them will be confusing to users, and not aesthetically appealing, lowering the probability that a person randomly browsing the site will create an account.

So, in the hopes of doing what is best for Tatoeba and the Berber/Kabyle corpuses in the long-run, I'm going to have to change the Kabyle language icon, possibly sacrificing some users and many sentences, but hopefully wounds will heal quickly, and the wonderful members that choose to stay despite this can help develop the Berber corpora to promote literacy among the Berber and outsiders learning these beautiful languages.

- Cueyāyōtl

@TRANG You may have missed my comment in this sea of other comments, but I tried to outline a nice technical solution to having duplicate sentences between a language and its macrolanguage (in this case Kabyle and Berber, respectively) here:
https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/sh...#message_29795

I wonder how difficult something like this would be to implement?

'Arabic' and 'Modern Standard Arabic' would be two different things. I actually recommended to add 'Modern Standard Arabic' (ISO 639-3 ARB) some time ago, but this situation hadn't gotten to the point that it is now, and most Arabic users seemed to be against it. I actually still believe it important to have 'Modern Standard Arabic' added as a separate language, and change the language icon of all sentences in 'Arabic' (ARA) to 'Modern Standard Arabic' (ARB), and reserve the classification, 'Arabic' (ARA), for Arabic sentences not in the Modern Standard nor in any other variant that we currently have in Tatoeba (which WOULD mean to manually change back the language icon in some sentences which would have been changed to 'Modern Standard Arabic' in the process).
On the other hand, if you want to study Modern Standard Arabic, then you would look up 'Modern Standard Arabic' and get ONLY sentences under the 'Modern Standard Arabic' label. But looking up 'Arabic' would bring back results of not only 'Modern Standard Arabic', but also 'Egyptian Arabic', 'Iraqi Arabic', etc.

It could be implemented into the Advanced Search. We have:

"Owned by a self-identified native"

We could have the opposite, too. "Owned by a user who does not have the corresponding language added to their profile."
It would DEFINITELY help in correcting wrong-flag errors.

An issue I predicted a while back has become true: an issue caused by allowing Tatoeba to include both macro-languages and their individual languages, as long as there was an ISO 639-3 code representing them.

Specifically we have Arabic, and at the same time Arabic (Gulf), Egyptian Arabic, etc. and a source of much debate these days: we have Berber, while at the same time having Kabyle, Tarifit, etc. Based on the way we set up the platform, 'Arabic' sentences are allowed to remain as they are, and not be forced into one of its individual languages (Gulf, Egyptian, etc.) in the same way Amastan's 'Berber' sentences should be allowed as they are, and not be forced to be labeled as 'Kabyle' (or any other language).

I believe that this issue may be resolved with a little bit of programming, where looking up 'Berber' language, for example, will not just yield sentences with the code of BER, but also KAB (Kabyle), RIF (Tarifit), and any other Berber language we may add in the future. This would thus maintain what user Amastan has wanted all along: a unified Berber language. At the same time, our new Kabyle users could continue to develop their own Kabyle corpus as they see fit.
And the same could be implemented with Arabic: when one searches 'Arabic', they should be able to see all sentences with the codes ARA as well as ACM, AFB, APC, ARQ, ARY, ARZ.
I wonder how difficult it would be to implement something like this.

Horus could do the following (tentatively, of course): If a sentence in ARA (Arabic) matches any sentence in its sub-languages (ACM, AFB, APC, etc as above), it could remove the sentence in ARA and keep the sentence in the sub-language (otherwise ARA could in theory contain EVERY sentence in EVERY one of its sub-languages).

+1

Error in the Spanish translation of the page under
Contribute >> Translate sentences

The line: "Search for untranslated sentences" has been translated as "Buscar por oraciones sin aprovar", which means "Search through sentences without approval" (with 'approval' spelled wrong; as is noted above)... though it should actually be

"Buscar oraciones sin traducir"