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Üzenőfal (6 959 bejegyzés)
Tippek
Mielőtt bármi kérdésed lenne, kérlek, olvasd el a GYIK oldalt.
Célunk az barátságos légkör fenntartása a civilizált beszélgetések érdekében. Kérünk, olvasd el a magatartási szabályzatot.
sharptoothed
4 nappal ezelőtt
Cangarejo
4 nappal ezelőtt
Cangarejo
7 nappal ezelőtt
Thanuir
7 nappal ezelőtt
ondo
8 nappal ezelőtt
ddnktr
8 nappal ezelőtt
ondo
8 nappal ezelőtt
AlanF_US
12 nappal ezelőtt
Nandixer
13 nappal ezelőtt
cblanken
15 nappal ezelőtt
Ennek az üzenetnek a tartalma szabályellenes, ezért rejtve maradt. Csak adminok és az üzenet szerzője láthatja.
Ennek az üzenetnek a tartalma szabályellenes, ezért rejtve maradt. Csak adminok és az üzenet szerzője láthatja.
✹✹ Stats & Graphs ✹✹
Tatoeba Stats, Graphs & Charts have been updated:
https://tatoeba.j-langtools.com/allstats/
Ennek az üzenetnek a tartalma szabályellenes, ezért rejtve maradt. Csak adminok és az üzenet szerzője láthatja.
🍎 Bilingual Audio Pairs
Get random selections of 1,000 setences using these links.
Spanish with Audio Linked to English with Audio
https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...a&trans_to=eng
67,376 occurrences
German with Audio Linked to English with Audio
https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...u&trans_to=eng
29,316 occurrences
Kabyle with Audio Linked to English with Audio
https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...b&trans_to=eng
28,267 occurrences
Esperanto with Audio Linked to English with Audio
https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...o&trans_to=eng
15,063 occurrences
Portuguese with Audio Linked to English with Audio
https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...r&trans_to=eng
14,069 occurrences
French with Audio Linked to English with Audio
https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...a&trans_to=eng
8,536 occurrences
Dutch with Audio Linked to English with Audio
https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...d&trans_to=eng
7,188 occurrences
Hungarian with Audio Linked to English with Audio
https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...n&trans_to=eng
6,185 occurrences
Russian with Audio Linked to English with Audio
https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...s&trans_to=eng
5,893 occurrences
Japanese with Audio Linked to English with Audio
https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...n&trans_to=eng
2,136 occurrences
If you prefer to see all translations, and not only English translations, change the last 3 letters of the above URLs to "und". (&trans_to=eng => &trans_to=und)
These are only a few of the possibilities.
Try other possibilities, starting with this "pre-filled advanced search form" set for Spanish-German pairs. (7,513 occurrences)
https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...rd_count_min=1
🍎 Are you looking for English sentences to translate into your own language?
Here are some sentences that have audio that do not yet have translations into any language.
ddnktr's Sentences (732)
https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...rd_count_min=1
shekitten's Sentences (328)
https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...rd_count_min=1
Miktsoanit's Sentences (140)
https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...rd_count_min=1
AlanF_US's Sentences (30)
https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...rd_count_min=1
sundown's Sentences (8)
https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...rd_count_min=1
These links aren’t functional…
✹✹ Stats & Graphs ✹✹
Tatoeba Stats, Graphs & Charts have been updated:
https://tatoeba.j-langtools.com/allstats/
** Pruned/Rebalanced Lists **
Rebalanced lists are lexical filters that provide a more varied and balanced view of the Tatoeba Corpus. They prohibit a word from occurring more than 10 times as often as in a reference corpus. Long sentences of more than 15 words have little success with translators and are therefore systematically pruned. The most recent sentences are pruned before older ones. The words targeted are usually pervasive named entities that are used extensively by a few Tatoebans, and not relevant across languages.
10 major languages on Tatoeba are currently supported:
- English: https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...=1&orphans=any
- French: https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...=1&orphans=any
- German: https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...=1&orphans=any
- Italian: https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...=1&orphans=any
- Japanese: https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...=1&orphans=any
- Mandarin Chinese: https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...=1&orphans=any
- Portuguese: https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...=1&orphans=any
- Russian: https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...=1&orphans=any
- Spanish: https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...=1&orphans=any
- Turkish: https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...=1&orphans=any
All rebalanced lists are updated automatically every Saturday.
@lbdx Reading your description of the list in your profile, it's interesting to me that you date the imbalance of the English corpus to 2017: that's when I joined. Sharptooth's graphs show a massive increase of English sentences at that time. Until 2020 (or thereabouts), I myself had only added about 1,500 sentences.
The years 2017 and 2018 were years in which Tatoeba's main English-speaking contributor added hundreds of thousands of sentences in bulk.These sentences were mostly built according to syntactic patterns and used wildcards to avoid creating paraphrases that differ only in their named entities. These massive additions have greatly reduced the lexical diversity of the English corpus and increased the proportion of sentences containing pervasive words from 20% to 40%. This sudden change coincides with a sharp drop in the number of active contributors to Tatoeba.
The introduction of rate limits for sentence additions would prevent such a flood from happening again.
Thanks, @lbdx. It's good to have some numbers to back up what should be obvious to anyone who cares to look a bit at the English corpus and who has shaped it. Could you give us some more detail about the sharp drop in the number of active contributors? For example, has it been across all languages and countries?
The number of monthly sentence owners fell from 350-400 between 2012 and 2016 to 250-300 between 2017 and 2023. I don't have the details by language.
Do you have any recommendation on what might be a good rate limit?
I did find a post where you suggested 3000 original sentences per month in one language:
https://tatoeba.org/en/wall/sho...#message_39818
Just wondering if you still think it's a good rate limit, or do you perhaps have another opinion now?
Any particular reason why you suggested a monthly rather than a daily or weekly cap?
If I may share some additional insight, perhaps some people don't know, but Tatoeba used to have a mass import feature. Only admins could access it, but you could send a list of sentences to an admin and ask for them to be imported. The feature was disabled on January 2019 because we migrated CakePHP from v2 to v3, and we didn't feel it was urgent to migrate the mass import feature. It was for the best, I guess. I would say this feature was the main cause for the reduced lexical diversity of the English corpus.
Trang, thank you for reopening the debate on this important issue.
My view on this has evolved slightly. I now think it would be simpler and more understandable to also include derived sentences in this rate limit of 3,000 sentences per language per month. Sentence counts would be reset at the beginning of each month. Once the limit has been reached, the user would not be allowed to add any more sentences until the following month. I prefer a monthly rate limit because it doesn't penalise users who don't contribute every day or every week.
Note that I'm not against the occasional import of other corpora into Tatoeba as long as they are lexically balanced and composed of sentences that are useful for language learners.
I don't see the problem with a native speaker contributing useful sentences in great volumes; I'd rather have that than non-native speakers contributing questionable sentences, even in small volumes. But then, I don't see a big problem with Tom and Mary either.
I used to be a proponent of limits, but the more I think about it, I think any workable limits would have to be set so high as to make them more or less meaningless.
> I don't see the problem with a native speaker contributing useful sentences in great volumes; I'd rather have that than non-native speakers contributing questionable sentences, even in small volumes.
This is too simple. A native speaker contributing 1000 auto-generated sentences isn't necessarily more valuable than a non-native speaker contributing one correct sentence.
Obviously, we don't want any auto-generated content at all. But even with limits per hour, day, week and month, or a combination thereof, it's trivial to adjust a script to conform with that, and still be able to upload thousands of sentences we don't want.
Yes, an automated script can be slowed down arbitrarily to conform with any given limit, until it no longer has a quantitative advantage over someone adding sentences manually.
Uploading thousands of sentences we don't want is only possible if you're able to upload thousands of sentences in the first place.
Ennek az üzenetnek a tartalma szabályellenes, ezért rejtve maradt. Csak adminok és az üzenet szerzője láthatja.
Is there a more user-friendly way to perform an advanced search, restricted to a list?
In advanced search https://tatoeba.org/en/sentences/advanced_search, there is a drop down menu "Belong to List" by which one can choose a specific List. But this drop down menu is very cumbersome and choosing a specific list is very difficult.
For example if one likes to restrict the advanced search within the List "Spread by Tatoebans" one has to scroll the menu hundreds of time to arrive to "Spread by Tatoebans".
(It would be easier if this menu could be partially searched to find a specific list more quickly, for example typing "Spread" lists all lists containing the word "Spread" and then choosing the proper one.)
For me, using Google Chrome on a Mac, I can just click the select option and start typing and it jumps to that list.
Remember that you can also save a template, then bookmark it.
Here is a template with that list selected.
https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...rd_count_min=1
You can make additional presets for your searches, too, in templates.
For example,
Language: English
Has audio: Yes
List: Spread by Tatoebans
Sort: random
https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...rd_count_min=1
Without entering any search query, you can just click the "Search" button to get a random selection of sentences.
If you are looking for English sentences to translate into Persian with the above criteria, add the "Exclude sentences already translated into Persian" part.
Here is that template already created for you.
https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...rd_count_min=1
Thank you for the templates. You are right on pc, typing just works. On the other hand on touch screen devices the keyboard is not opened and the only way seems, scrolling the menu.
Ennek az üzenetnek a tartalma szabályellenes, ezért rejtve maradt. Csak adminok és az üzenet szerzője láthatja.
Over the years I have witnessed, as many of you undoubtedly have, too, the hard work done and being done by all the Tamazight contributors on Tatoeba, and I commend them for it, ...but I have to ask this question:
Where in the real world can we actually find written content in Standard Berber/Tamazight?
I don't mean websites that just explain the grammar, but rather: monolingual websites that are constantly updated, textbooks, novels (fiction), wikipedia articles, news websites, blogs, real Berber-language content in the wild. That sort of thing.
(Of course the Berber dialects do have a rich history of spoken content, especially when it comes to music and movies, much of which can be found on YouTube).
I also know that some of you have tried to get Wikipedia to accept the language code for Berber, but they declined the request, didn't they? It seems to me the language merely exists as a spoken one.
I take it the Berber contributors have no answer to my question?
If so, what is the point of adding all these thousands of sentences, when people interested in these languages can't even find real-world, frequently updated content in said languages? I have scoured the web and found nothing: almost nothing in the way of fiction, news websites, science, technology, just zilch, except for a Bible translation and some random PDFs posted on French websites.
> What’s the point?
Language preservation.
Berber is a familly of langages, we re raising it since several years now to tatoeba
And it is why you have a kabyle language for example in tatoeba, which is a real language with rules, courses, Books, articles, websites, songs, poems etc
Most of the ber sentences are a kabyle ones
The flag also is a berber one, we asked the admins to change the kabyle ones with the right kabylian flag but they refused and put the ber one...
That makes sense. ''Berber'' is a unified, artificial language, after all.
Thank you.
To prove my assumptions wrong, could you point to any frequently updated websites that exist exclusively in Kabyle?
There are several sites devoted to the Kabyle language, starting with Wikipedia. Almost 7000 articles.
https://kab.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asebter_agejdan
Wonderful. Kabyle in the real world! Tanemmirt! Hopefully the amount of Kabyle content keeps growing.
Tanemmirt. It's very kind of you.
there are several kabyles websites having articles in Kabylian language and in french, like:
https://isahliyen.com/
https://kabyle.com/kab/
https://vava-innova.com/
siwel.info
tamurt.info
https://apprendrelekabyle.com/
According to linguists, Berber is not a language but a group of languages [1]. Consequently "ber" is an ISO 639-5 language code but not an ISO 639-3 language code. That is probably why Berber has been declined by Wikipedia.
Tatoeba also does not accept languages that do not have an ISO 639-3 code, but an exception was made for Berber. In hindsight, this was probably not a good idea. It creates overlap and harmful competition with other Berber languages' corpora such as Kabyle.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berber_languages