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sharptoothed
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Cangarejo
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ondo
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ondo
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[not needed anymore- removed by CK]
Contributions include only the addition of sentences?
It's inconsistent: On your profile, the number of contributions also includes translations/links, but the general statistics don't...
Go, Romance!
Portuguese is now in the 8th position with Chinese (32300+ sentences).
\o/ \o/ \o/
Great job!
I'm a software developer interested in languages. Is there any way I can help? I can't seem to find anything specific. In the same vein, is there a search method for the "Wall" or does one somehow use use the example sentences search?
TOP 10 SPANISH OWNERS
Data: 08/13/2011
- 420 users own sentences in Spanish (51374 sentences).
TOP 10:
1. Shishir (13637 = 26,5%)
2. darinmex (6252 = 12,2%)
3. tatoerique (4763 = 9,3%)
4. hayastan (2992 = 5,8%)
5. hundo (2526 = 4,9%)
6. lucaszpp (2471 = 4,8%)
7. Leono (1790 = 3,5%)
8. chinopinyin (851 = 1,7%)
9. ventana (709 = 1,4%)
10. arashi_29 (628 = 1,2%)
Congratulations!
http://s3.postimage.org/5qhuj6emw/tato.png
Hi Alex,
I copied your idea and did the same for all languages. For example, Portuguese:
http://sandbox.braulio.net.br/tato_stats/por.html
The others are here:
http://sandbox.braulio.net.br/tato_stats/
Great! Thank you!
Really nice, thank you :)
Can you just increase the mouse over not only to the little squarre but to the whole username, this way it will not require snipper training to know the percentage of a given user :) (kidding)
Great, indeed!
Thank you!
I think my favorite one is for Volapük.
"Type in accented letters, international characters or symbols into Firefox or Thunderbird, either simply by using a context menu (there being support for many languages), or quickly by keyboard macro (you can even define your own)."
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-U...ddon/abctajpu/
Does anyone know if there's something similar to this for Chrome?
Ach ja, und speziell für Tatoeba habe ich "Tatoeba Symbol Insert Helper" http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/102000 geschrieben, der anklickbare Symbole je nach sprachpräferenz einblendet.
Besten Dank! Ich brauche eigentlich nur die spanischen Symbole. Dein Script habe ich jetzt installiert. Das ist natürlich schon mal prima für Tatoeba. Allerdings suche ich auch nach einer Lösung, die generell in Chrome funktioniert, wenn ich z.B. bei Gmail eine E-Mail oder sonst irgendwo etwas auf Spanisch schreibe. Die Lösung mit dem Kontextmenü per Rechtsklick bei abcTajpu finde ich ganz gut, aber das funktioniert eben nur in Firefox.
hab beim googlen auch folgendes gefunden:
http://www.webdomination.de/201...r-fuer-chrome/
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-U...on/foxreplace/
schau mal ob das das ist was du suchst.
Danke! Ich wusste nämlich nicht so richtig, wonach ich eigentlich suchen sollte. Ich hab jetzt Popchrom installiert. Das funktioniert gut, lässt sich sehr einfach anpassen und genügt meinen Anforderungen. :) "Esperanto Supersignoj" funktioniert bei mir unter Chrome/Blank Canvas Script Handler, allerdings nicht in allen Eingabefeldern. Bei Gmail z.B. gehts nicht.
Welches Betriebssystem hast du?
Windows 7
Start > Systemsteuerung > Region und Sprache > Tastaturen und Sprachen > Tastaturen ändern...
Hier kann man mehrere Tastaturen hinzufügen. Mit der "Sprachenleiste" kann man zwischen Tastaturen wechseln. Aber ich muss nur "Alt+Shift" drücken, um Tastaturen zu wechseln. Ich habe eine englische, deutsche und Esperanto Anordnung hinzugefügt.
Danke! Das wäre wohl die technisch gesehen einfachste Lösung. Dazu müsste ich mir allerdings die spanische Tastaturbelegung merken. ;)
Ja, kein Problem. Der beste Teil ist, dass diese Methode mit allen Programmen funktioniert. Viel Glück!
Hm, verstehe. Hast du "Esperanto Supersignoj" (http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/105268) probiert? Mit dem script sollte (bitte eventuelle Fehler melden) beim tippen zB "ux" in "ŭ" umgewandelt werden (und "ŭx" wieder zurück in "ux" falls man zB französisch schreibt).
Da ich das Script selbst geschrieben haben könnte ich es (oder gerne auch du selbst) es für spanisch anpassen. Ich müsste nur wissen welche Zeichenkette in welches Zeichen umgewanelt werden soll. ZB könnte ich "n~" zu "ñ" umwandeln etc. was denke ich viel weniger mühsam wäre als rechtsklick plus suchen, oder?
Willst du nur Esperanto-Hütchen schreiben oder auch in anderen Sprachen tippen? Nur im Browser oder auch sonst am PC?
Für Windows PC verwende ich XK http://traduku.net/xk/
Im Firefox vertraue ich auf Userscripts:
Supersignoj Esperantaj ist in Firefox bewährt http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/2026
Ich selbst habe ein script mit der selben funktionalität geschrieben http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/105268
Beide funktionieren mit Greasemonkey in Firefox. Mein Script sollte auch in Chrome mit "Blank Canvas Script Handler" https://chrome.google.com/webst...hmnpdfpdobpnkk funktionieren, welcher generell eine installation wert ist, weil er auch andere Userscripts zum laufen bringt.
lg,
jakov
Hi Guys,
I'm also trying to use Mecab to do kanji to hiragana translation, and I was surprised how inaccurate it was. Nana ji han? Nani desu ka? These are simple translations, why is it getting them wrong? I thought this thing was supposed to be smart? Am I using it wrong, or do I have something missing perhaps?
Thanks
Ray
Sometimes nani turns into nan, but I don't really now when actually.
なんですか and not なにですか
And I don't understand the problem with ななじはん ?
I am using Japanese every day, but actually I didn't know the rule for that. :P Basically, 何 is read as なに, なん is the specific reading if it is used with a counter such as 枚, 個, 本, 人. Or if 何 is linked to ta sounds, da sounds and na sounds, the sound "なに" changes "なん".
何枚ですか。何個ありますか。何本いりますか。何人来ますか。何てことだ。何と言いましたか。何だって。何でこうなるんだ。何のことですか。何についてですか。They are all read as なん.
http://okwave.jp/qa/q5884406.html
The proper reading for 七時半 is しちじはん, however, sometimes people say ななじはん not to hear it instead of いちじはん.
Karaj listanoj,
Saluton! Mi venis cxi tie por trovi Esperantajn vortojn, kiujn firmaoj uzas kiel nomo de io. Ekzample, mi jam vidis auxtomobilojn, kiuj havas bonajn signifojn sed mi dubas, se la managxero scias ion pri la lingvo, nur tiu vorto. Cxu mi povus trovi tiun vortojn en cxi tiu retejo, kaj se jes, kiel? Amike, Diano
Wikipedia has "Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License" so I thought that with an attribution in the comment I'd be able to quote from Wikipedia, but Scott tells me those sentences have to be deleted. So why is CC not allowed on this site? Is there an incompatible commercial purpose for the data of this site that I am not aware of? :-\
Hello,
actually it comes from the little differences between all the licences which are unfortunately group under the same global name "CC"
The CC-By-Sa does not restrict commercial use (otherwise it's CC-By-Nc-Sa), so even if we were selling the data or permit the access only to people who paid for it (which we will not), that would not be a problem, you can imagine doing
The main reason we can't is the following
The problem is that we're under a CC-By licence, without a share-alike clause. It means someone can take our work, improve it /complete it/ use it in an other project and we don't oblige him to choose a specific licence for this "derivated" works. The only condition to reuse our works is the "By" (attribution) clause, which mean they only need to say "The data come from the tatoeba projects <link to the project>".
CC-by-sa on the other hand force you to put your derivated work also under CC-by-sa.
So integrate cc-by-sa works will force us to put the all project also under cc-by-sa, which we can't because when you register, the term of use everyone is supposed to read only state that you keep the ownership of the data but you give us the right to use them under the cc-by licence.
I know this licence difference is a pity, as so we can't use this huge possible ressource that wikipedia is, but on the hand, Tatoeba is aimed to be reused a lot, and we hope by scientist in natural language processing etc., for which they maybe the share alike clause will be too embarassing.
I hope you understand.
>"The data come from the tatoeba projects <link to the project>"
Actually that's not enough. To fulfil the license's requirements the licensee needs to name the authors of the single sentences. They are the licensors.
In practice most people will probably accept a "from Tatoeba" attribution, but if you want to be safe you should attribute the sentence's author(s).
actually I'm wondering about this, because tatoeba database itself is already a derivative work on contributors works, as in addition to the sentences itself, we provide an organized way to access to them.
In french copyright law you have two kind of works under which tatoeba database can fall
either
collaborative (work which has been made with several people, in a common agreement, and where the work of everyone can easily be separated)
or collective work (work which has been mad by several people under the "leadership" /initiative of a phyisical or moral people who takes the reponsability to edit / make it publically available , without possibility to people participating to it claim a specific right on a part of the final work )
For example the French dictionnary made by the French académie is considered as a collective work (the work is published under the name of the institution, though some articles may have been written by single people)
So I'm wondering if in tatoeba there's not two "works", the complete database (the one we export/ will provide in the future an API for), and the contributors single contributions (for which we already do the attribution)
So for example someone reusing the complete database will need to attribute it for tatoeba, and someone reusing only your sentences will need to attribute it to you, not tatoeba (though I also considered eveything single contributors is included in "tatoeba")
I have no specific knowledge of French laws, but I'm pretty sure that Tatoeba cannot be considered a collective work. Each single edit can be pinpointed to a single person. Tatoeba is just a platform where the authors can publish and connect their content. At least that's the way Wikipedia and the Wikimedia Foundation handle it. The Wikimedia Foundation would never claim any authorship for the Wikipedia contents. Alone for the legal risks of claiming responsibility for other peoples' posts, Tatoeba shouldn't do so.
And it's not legally acceptable to reuse the whole Tatoeba database and omit the attribution of the single authors. Creative Commons is designed for the needs of individuals: content creators who are willing to grant rights to the public and for the re-users of this content. It seeks to balance the respective interests of these two groups and to make it easy for them to share and to use shared content. In the original concept of Creative Commons content accumulators like Tatoeba or Wikipedia do not appear as a separate group. From a CC-perspective they are just re-users of the CC-licensed content of their contributors.
Thanks for your replies. I wasn't aware of the implications of CC BY. And yeah, it does seem very restrictive to not even be able to use sentences from a project that wants information to be free.
Recently Youtube introduced an option to license video's under CC, but checking the small print that turns out to be CC BY as well. So I suppose one is not even allowed to read or screenshot a bit of Wikipedia in a video either? Seems sad. It boggles my mind a bit. You create free information but it can not contain free information, nor will it remain free. :-\
Actually depends on your definition of "free",
In a way CC-by is a "more" free than the CC-by-sa because we does not restrict the possiblity of reuse. There's a little things to note, you can't relicense a cc-by work as it, you can only change the licence of a derivated works. Which mean tatoeba as it is will always be under cc-by, one can't take it, write a website better than us, just import the data and change the licence. He can only change the licence if he do a new work that is based on tatoeba. (and only add a few dozen of sentences is not considered as a derivate works, because the idea behind, the way sentences are organized is still the same except a little change in the content itself ) (To be honest I'm even wondering if adding two million of sentences in a parallel project will permit it, because there for me it will be more a "composite works", but hmm that's an other story)
Moreover there's also an other part, you can create a derivated work and put this derivate work under the public domain, which is not possible with the cc-by-sa , and a lot of research center are supposed to do so with the work they produce, so a research center in some countries can not create a public domain work based on wikipedia
Maybe what I'm going to say is a call to troll, but it will say that CC-by-sa is like a democracy that will allow only political party that are for democracy. It's good in a way because you avoid possibility of despotic political party, but in the other hand you also restrict the possiblity to have a political party that propose something better than democracy (it's only an analogy)
Perhaps I was a bit unclear, but I understood your point about not wanting to restrict reuse under any circumstance already. I suppose was just trying to express a bit of disappointment that permitting unrestricted reuse does not allow incorporation of information that wants to be free (as in free speech of course, since CC BY-SA does allow commercial use explicitly). On Tatoeba it will a bit more difficult to add interesting stuff, but I will try. ;-)
That's because some people need to make a living with their creation, and they shouldn't be punished to do so when they use free data. Otherwise, every professional would stop creating anything related to free information altogether, so that free information would actually kill intellectual creation. Free information is fine, but it must also be possible to make a living with creation. Not everybody can live from fresh air...
actually "live on the creation" is not of any concern with cc-by or cc-by-sa
I can make books with wikipedia or tatoeba to sell them in part of the words or to part of the population which do not have an access to the electricity.
I'm both allowed to do this, because both licence don't restrict commercial reuse (no "nc" clause). Moreover it's a derivated work (I've needed to choose the way I cut that into chapters, how do i adapt the presentation to book format, maybe I've also adapted the data, by classifying the sentence of tatoeba or the article of wikipedia by suject or by "for high school student" "for beginner). For both I will need to add somewhere (if not precised, It's my duty to ask how I'm supposed to "attribute" the work, I can't choose myself to put a little "from wikipedia/tatoeba" in size 0.1 at the last page) that this book is based on an other project.
The only difference will be that with the cc-by-sa I will be obliged to provide somewhere the "source" of my book (the latex file) (on a website for example).
In my opinion, people who come from the "physical object business" (books editor can be considered as part of them) are a little reluctant to provide their books for free (though if you have read carefully it's not supposed to do any direct harm, as your target market is "people with no access to the internet") somewhere.
Yes it does, because as CC-by-sa forces you to place your derivative work also under CC-by-sa, if you don't want that to happen, you cannot use it. That restricts creation...
Wikipedia has CC-BY-SA and Tatoeba has CC-BY. So if you use text from Wikipedia the resulting new work has to be licensed under a free license too. Text from Tatoeba can be re-used in works under any license, even if it's proprietary.
Therefore it's okay to post Tatoeba content on Wikipedia, but not the other way round.
But depending on the extent of the quotes it should be okay to use simple sentences from Wikipedia, because simple sentences are not copyrightable or licensable at all.
The new timelines are not intercomparable anymore: without the numbers it seems like this august's contributions were weak, but they're the same as july; only the huge contributions on aug 6th 2011 make them seem smaller. I guess the colormcoding still works properly, but the bars length should be fixed.
By the way, what happen on aug 6th?
>By the way, what happen on aug 6th?
CK imported 6000 "Tom" sentences...
I suggest that one should be able to (optionally) see all the translations that once where linked to a sentence. Sometimes i dont unlink a sentence that still needs adaption, because i fear that it will never be linked again and thereby get lost.
For example the sentence "The house is painted blue." could have a translation "The house is painted red."(in another language), which should be unlinked or corrected. So lets say it gets unlinked first and only corrected afterwards: Then we would have "The house is painted blue." and "The house is painted blue."(in another language) not linked to each other. Only in the changes history one could check all the sentences that got unlinked and link them again if they fit again, but this is very inconvenient.
There should be a button or an option to append the unlinked to the list (just like the indirect translations) or the unlinked sentences should be readable in full length when hovering thier number in the history.
> because i fear that it will never be linked again
It will, sooner or later...
> or later...
Thats the point ;)
If sentence B gets unlinked from sentence A, which has a translation C; then it might easily happen that B gets translated to C by adding a double and not by just linking them (which is extra useless effort).
I know that Sysko wants to develop alogrithms that identify similar sentences to avoid doubles and add more links, but until then I think it would reduce effort.
But currently, duplicates are merged every now and then by a batch procedure. I think it works very well. It doesn't matter much that there are a few duplicates at any given time between 2 deduplication procedures. It actually takes more time to check for duplicates than to create them, so contributors would not really benefit from a preemptive duplicate detection system, because to check for a duplicate, you must type it first, and that's what is time consuming...
(i wrote a long reply before, but it fot lost in the depth of my crappy mobile browser)
The problem to me is false links: if we have "A" and "B" then by linking someone verifies that they are translations of eachother ("A"="B" true), but if "A" changes to "a" then "a"="B" is false. So we should unlink them and not wait until someone fixes it. By suppling "relink" buttons for "ghost"-translations we can unlink "temporarily" because its easy to relink. So the work of varification has to be redone (else its not verified)(of course not formminor changes like punctuation).
But what I mean is, even if you don't "relink", if "a" is a valid translation of "B", someone, somewhere, will link them or retranslate them separately into each other, and through the mechanisms of deduplication/merging, they will be relinked the same way as before to the other sentences they were linked to. So, really, it doesn't matter that the same person unlinks and relinks. Linking will take place if it makes sense, at some point...So I don't think a "ghost link" is necessary.
Reversely, classic translation mistakes (like people translating the French "actuellement" into the English "actually", although the latter actually means "réellement" in French) : You may correct them hundreds of times and unlink them hundreds of times, they will reappear at some point...That is the downside of the "wisdom of crowds" that everybody can see on Wikipedia, with always the same false informations popping up time and again...
We live the myth of Sisyphus...
For that i think we should be able to comment our actions like "Unlinked the english translation because "actuellement" is not "actually"" or "tagged the sentence 'war' because the word 'army' suggests so" (beside not commenting actions at all).
So i would like to see the history of actions merged with the comments. Then also one wouldnt wonder why there is a comment saying "i would use 'crapword' here" when 'crapword' isnt even in the sentence but it got changed afterwards. You wouldnt need to seperately look at the history anymore.
The stupidity of the crowd would find its way also by retranslating instead of relinking i think, even more so if one would be made aware of the fact that relinking is a more delicate task than newly linking, because maybe someone DECIDED to unlink the sentences and not just unlined them because either was changed.
Problème difficile dans tous les cas.
Je constate qu'il est de plus en plus difficile au fur et à mesure qu'on avance :
Plus l'historique d'une phrase est long plus il devient complexe de comprendre pourquoi telle phrase a été détachée de telle autre, etc.
pour le coup des fautes de traductions, il y aurait surement moyen de faire comme sur la wikipedia, c'est à dire mettre pour les taches répétitive un système de bot.
J'espère pouvoir (et pour l'instant, mis à part encore un peu de temps, je ne vois pas de limitation technique qui l'en empêcherai), mettre en place la chose suivante:
L'api enverra via xmpp (ou autre), quand des evenements arrivent sur tatoeba (ajout de phrase/de traduction/ajout d'un tag (peut etre se limiter uniquement ))
le but principal serait de pouvoir avoir un tatoeba "hors ligne", installable sur son ordinateur (la nouvelle version peut tres bien fonctionner sans serveur apache ni mysql, donc on peut imaginer faire un .exe) qui se maintiendrai à jour via ce système de notification.
Mais on peut tres bien imaginer mettre a la place un petit programme qui ecouterait aussi ses evenements, et par exemple avoir un programme "verifications des ponctuations manquantes"
(il aurait un ensemble de regle en fonction, de la langue etc.). Et avoir la possiblité via l'api de poster un commentaire (le robot aurait comme sur wikipedia, un compte expliquant que c'est un robot, ses fonctions etc.)
Il serait donc possible de la meme maniere de faire un robot 'faute commune de traduction" , un autre "faute d'orthographe" (sûrement plus facile)
Pour la question pourquoi externaliser cela plutôt que de l'inclure dans tatoeba directement, c'est que cela permettra de garder le code du site "simple" et propre (le passage obligé par l'api évitant les tours de magie de noirs), et aussi de permetre à d'autre de developper ses bots en paralléle, indépendamment de ma disponibilité pour expliquer comment tatoeba fonctionne en interne, intégrer leur modifications etc. De plus cela permettra d'éviter le fameux "on ne le fait pas car le serveur ne peut pas le supporter en terme de puissance"
Évidemment, les robots devront obtenir un "permis" pour pouvoir accéder a des fonctionnalités comme "ajouter un commentaire"
Enfin je m'égare.
My bet is that if we allow for sufficient time, every sentence will end up being linked to any other at a given degree..."black" to "white" and "yes" to "no"...It's already the case in a few funny instances...
The corrolary of this is that at the nth degree, the number of linked sentences can be just huge, and recursively representing the complete trees would be really stressful for the server...