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Sentence #3326588

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tommy_san tommy_san June 19, 2014 June 19, 2014 at 10:33:29 PM UTC link Permalink

http://www.aozora.gr.jp/cards/0...249_12234.html

sharptoothed sharptoothed June 20, 2014 June 20, 2014 at 6:54:00 AM UTC link Permalink

Tommy, does the following match the Japanese?

On the whole, there's nothing more frightening than something strange.

tommy_san tommy_san June 20, 2014, edited June 20, 2014 June 20, 2014 at 7:37:41 AM UTC, edited June 20, 2014 at 7:48:18 AM UTC link Permalink

Not really. ^^;

およそ is an extremely difficult word to understand. Here it means, I believe, "among all the things (in the world)".
"Strange" doesn't seem to catch the meaning of 得体のわからない (more commonly: 得体の知れない) very well. "Mysterious" might be better, or more literally, "things that you don't know what they are". (得体 is a synonym of 正体.)

tommy_san tommy_san June 20, 2014, edited June 20, 2014 June 20, 2014 at 7:41:35 AM UTC, edited June 20, 2014 at 7:49:01 AM UTC link Permalink

The next sentence is "人が幽霊を恐れるのは、そのものの正体がわからないからである。" (People are afraid of ghosts because they don't know what they really are.)

I didn't include this sentence because I'd never use そのもの this way.

sharptoothed sharptoothed June 20, 2014, edited June 20, 2014 June 20, 2014 at 8:15:50 AM UTC, edited June 20, 2014 at 10:16:16 AM UTC link Permalink

Thanks for the explanation, Tommy. My Japanese-Russian dictionary defines " 得体の知れない" as "странный, непонятный; подозрительный" (strange /odd / queer, inconceivable / incomprehensible / unintelligible / mysterious / obscure / strange; suspicious) so I thought "strange" has wide enough meaning to match the Japanese. :-)

dmishin dmishin July 1, 2014 July 1, 2014 at 8:35:46 PM UTC link Permalink

実はロシア語に訳したんですが(#3353196)、やはりその「およそ」が難点です。
辞書に調べてみれば、2.2と2.3といった二つの解釈が当てはまりそうです
http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/lea...82%88%E3%81%9D
前者が当てはまるのだったら、その文章をこう書き換えられる:
「一般に、…ほど恐ろしいものはない」。つまり、入念にさがせば、もっと恐ろしいものが見つけられるかもしれないが、ここはそういう細かいところに言及しないという意味ですね。
後者が当てはまるのだったら、「全く得体のしれないものほど恐ろしいものはない」という風に書き換えられるでしょう。

つまりその「およそ」が全文を冠するか、「得体のしれない」を修飾する(強める)かというのは問題です。

とっちなんでしょう(それともどっちでもないかな)。

tommy_san tommy_san July 3, 2014 July 3, 2014 at 10:01:55 AM UTC link Permalink

どちらかと言われたら前者なのですが、Dmishinさんの理解はちょっと違っている気がします。
ありとあらゆるものの中で、得体の知れないものが一番恐ろしい、という意味だと思います。

dmishin dmishin July 4, 2014 July 4, 2014 at 8:40:35 PM UTC link Permalink

なるほど、そういう意味だったんですか。自分の訳は大して間違っていなかったですが、とにかくその解釈にあわせて更新しました。解説、ありがとうございました。

しっかし、別に疑っているというわけではありませんが、いくつかの辞書でひいても、どうしてそういう意味になるのかはいまいちよく分かりませんね。やはり難しいです。

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およそ得体のわからないものほど恐ろしいものはない。

added by tommy_san, June 19, 2014