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Wall (4258 threads)

<<< 1234567 >>
maaster
5 days ago
Hi everyone,

Now I deal with the noises of animals.
We, raggione and I, were thinking about a list of animal noises. It already exists (What do animals "say" in your language?). I wondered if it was better a tag "animal noises". It would be easier to handle it (to add it and search by them).
In Hungarian there are about 40-50 different onomatopoeias of animals (I don't know exactly how many; it may be less or more) and even more sentences.
I know there are anyway too many lists and tags, either. I'm waiting for your viewes and remarks, pros and cons.

Sziasztok!

Mostanában az állatok hangjaival foglalkozok előszeretettel, mint tapasztalhattátok is.
Érdekelne, hogy szerintetek jó ötlet lenne-e egy "animal noises" "tag", mely megkönnyítené a címkézést és a címkék szerinti keresést.

Grüß Euch!

Heutzutage beschäftige ich mich mit Tierlauten.
Wir haben daran gedacht, dass eine Liste von Tierlauten gut wäre. Da es doch schon existiert und ich es ausprobiert habe, Sätze auf die Liste aufzunehmen, hab ich's kompliziert gefunden. Facit: Wir müssten einen Tag 'animal noises' schaffen, damit dies Ganze einfacher sein soll.
Ich weiß ja, eine Menge Liste und auch Tag existiert bereits. Aber dennoch.
Ich warte Eure Bemerkunken, Meinungen ... und neue Sätze (genau wie Korrekturen:)
(Ich weiß wohl, ihr alle sprecht ja Englisch ebenfalls, nun ist es meinen Gehirnzellen gut, auf Deutsch auch zu schreiben:)
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kroko
6 hours ago
What does the fox say?
Was sagt der Fuchs?
Kino diras la vulpo?

;)
CK
CK
yesterday
** Sentences in English with Audio (214,592) **

https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...nly-with-audio

I added about 150 new English sentences today and also immediately added audio files for them.

Perhaps you would like to try translating some of these into your own native language.

By browsing sentences with audio, you are much less likely to find incorrect or unnatural-sounding sentences.
alexmarcelo
yesterday
:: New Advanced Contributor ::
Tatoeba has a new Advanced Contributor:
[POR] ToinhoAlam (https://tatoeba.org/eng/user/profile/ToinhoAlam)
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bill
yesterday
Ótimo! Estamos precisando de novos colaboradores avançados. ;)
TRANG
4 days ago
** Tatoeba Day #21 **

Tatoeba Day starts now and as usual will end in 24 hours!

Tatoeba Day is an event where you can get involved a little bit (or a lot) more than you usually would, to help make Tatoeba more awesome. You can find more details about it here:
http://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/arti...ow/tatoeba-day

After the last Tatoeba Day I started a small campaign to try and find more developers for Tatoeba. I was pleasantly surprised to receive more responses than I expected (in total, around 25 people responded to the call).
Although it is unsure how much each person who contacted us will get involved in the project, it is really nice to see that so many people are interested. A few of them already started submitting code for small bug fixes/enhancements. I'm really looking forward to seeing how things will progress :)

For this Tatoeba Day, now that we have new members in the dev team, I'm hoping that with some of them we can fix as many issues as possible. Priorities will be bugs[1] and enhancements that are "accepted"[2].

You can already test on the dev website the following issues:
- https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/955
- https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/1119

I'll keep updating this thread as new issues are fixed.

Happy Tatoeba Day!

-----

[1] https://github.com/Tatoeba/tato...ue+label%3Abug
[2] https://github.com/Tatoeba/tato...tus%3Aaccepted
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Guybrush88
4 days ago - edited 4 days ago
First request: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/765

maybe it's time to update the strings and the urls in order to cover the current user roles, since they still present the old names for the roles, and they might be confusing for new users
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TRANG
3 days ago
This page is actually more of a hidden page and is likely to be removed one day, to be replaced by something else. It's not accessible anywhere from the menu and new users wouldn't know about it unless veteran users tell them about it.

I'm actually going to mark the issue as rejected because I don't think it's worth fixing the text of a page that is meant to be replaced. It'll just generate unnecessary work for UI translators.
Guybrush88
4 days ago
Second request: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/720

This would be pretty useful to anyone who wants to browse sentences with a given tag in a given language. For example: if I'm learning English/French/any langage, I'd like to browse the sentences that were tagged as 'OK', and I would find it extremely useful to see the exact number of sentences with such tag, and not just the page number.
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TRANG
3 days ago
Just so you know, everything that is marked as "accepted" is something that has been validated and there's no more question about whether or not we should implement it. Therefore you don't need to make additional requests for such issues. It's just a matter of having a developer who wants to implement them.

What you can do however, is verify that every "accepted" issue has been completely thought through, and we didn't miss some problems. It can happen that "accepted" issues have not been analyzed thoroughly enough, and must be set back to "pending".
Guybrush88
4 days ago - edited 4 days ago
I also saw these two nasty bugs:

https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/1057 ("Odia cannot be searched")
https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/1056 ("Kannada cannot be searched")
TRANG
3 days ago
This issue can be tested on the dev website (https://dev.tatoeba.org):

- Title: Sometimes it would be useful to have exact dates and times rather than times listed as "6 hours ago
- Link: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/993
TRANG
3 days ago
Another issue can be tested:

- Title: Sentences with slashes appear empty in search results
- Link: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/1050

The empty result problem was actually fixed. The issue contains another problem which was that searching with the slash symbol causes an error.
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Ricardo14
3 days ago - edited 3 days ago
TRANG
3 days ago
Is there anybody speaking Mandarin Chinese? I would need translations for these strings:

- {n} minutes ago
- {n} hours ago
- {n} days ago

(where {n} is a number)

This would help fix this issue https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/923.

Thanks!
TRANG
3 days ago
Another issue can be tested:

- Ttile: Shortened links are sometimes incorrect
- Link: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/963
Ricardo14
3 days ago - edited 3 days ago
Congrats and thanks, dev team!
TRANG
3 days ago
Tatoeba Day is now over!

Thank you everyone for your participation.

There will be a Tatoeba update on May 7th. You can check the following link to learn more about what will be included in the update:
https://github.com/Tatoeba/tato...nes/2015-05-07

As usual, if you have some time, please test the dev website (https://dev.tatoeba.org) as much as possible and report any issue.

Next Tatoeba Day is scheduled for May 22nd.
honestlang
4 days ago - edited 4 days ago
Hey, just want to say that I am glad to be part of this website and I apologize for my little mishaps but thankfully I am already getting used to the site.

I hope I can be of really good use on here and I hope to be able to play a huge role in the development of Tatoeba. Thanks.
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cueyayotl
3 days ago
Welcome aboard! We all make mistakes trying to figure out the workings of the site, and some of us do get frustrated with all the rules here, but once we get to understand the reasons for them, we realize just how neat the site is and what a great tool it can be :) We thank you in advance for your contributions!

- Cueyāyōtl, one of the site's Corpus Maintainers
GrizaLeono
7 days ago
Kelkfoje la lingva flago estas neĝusta, kiam oni elektas "aŭtomata rekono" pri sendota frazo. Se oni elektas mem indiki la lingvon, necesas ĉiufoje refari tiun elekton.

Soms is de taalvlag niet juist, als men "automatische taalherkenning" selecteert voor de te zenden zin. Als men verkiest zelf de taal aan te duiden, is het nodig dat telkens te herhalen.

Parfois le drapeau linguistique est faux, quand on choisit "reconnaissance automatique" pour la phrase qui sera envoyée. Quand on préfère même indiquer la langue, il faut qhaque fois refaire ce choix.


Miaopinie preferindas programe lasi la elekton neŝanĝite, ĝis la aŭtoro mem ŝanĝis ĝin.

Ik ben van mening dat het te verkiezen is dat het programma de keuze onveranderd laat, tot de auteur die zelf verandert.

Selon moi, il est préférable, que le programme laisse le choix inchangé, pour autant que l'auteur même ne le change.
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alexmarcelo
7 days ago
Your flag choice is kept when you move to the next page, but I agree this could be improved.
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GrizaLeono
6 days ago
Pli detale:
Mi uzas ekzemple jenan paĝon:
https://tatoeba.org/epo/sentenc...ferent/page:84
Ĉiam, kiam mi mane elektas "Esperanta" en la listo de la tradukita frazo, tiu elekto estas ŝanĝata de la sistemo al "Aŭtomata rekono" ĉe la sekvanta frazo.
Post traduko de la lasta frazo de tiu paĝo kun la elekto "Esperanta" tiu elekto efektive restas konservata en la sekvanta paĝo (85). Sed ene la paĝo la elekto ĉiam resaltas al "Aŭtomata rekono".
GrizaLeono
5 days ago
Vi pravas: se oni eniras novan paĝon kun la dezirata flago, tiu restas dum la tuta paĝo.
damascene
11 days ago
Hello,

I've been invited to this project by a friend. I contributed to Arabic. Used the website to help me learn the Turkish language.

well that is my experience:
1. my first concern that the "CC BY" license. Me I like the GPL viral characteristic (like virus). I hoped my work would not be taken by some commercial company and then get locked and sold. "Share Alike" sounded better. anyway I though it would not be that bad as it could help people learn Arabic.

2. The heated discussion about Arabic language getting split to different languages because the SIL organization which wrote the ISO-639-3 think that Arabic is actually 30 languages without providing a study to support that.

https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/1084 https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/1079 http://linguistics.stackexchang...ne-for-english

At the end I got banned from #tatoeba IRC channel after some disagreement and exchange of word with a member. we apologized to each other afterward but my ideas seems does not fit there. even after I talked to the leader of the project it was not his decision. I could not get back. it's just does not seems a comfortable and fair environment.

3. I like a word of poetry in Turkish language, I posted it to Tatoeba to find that I've broken many rules. Well, even Youtube does not follow such strict rules.

Then I find that even sentences from Wikipedia are not compatible with Tatoeba, because it does not allow CC SA "creative commons share alike" text.

This is the comment I got "@possible copyright infringement

From the song "Hoşçakal" by Ayşe Gökalp. Please do not add lyrics to songs; it is against our copyright policies.

Also, damascene, please do not include annotations in your sentences, it is one of our rules in the Quick-Start Guide: http://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/arti...ow/quick-start
So in the future, for sentences like "...that we lived (together)." you would have to add two separate translations: one "...that we lived." or "...that we lived together."

We would also recommend contributing sentences in your own native language. You could be helping us much more that way, since people would be able to trust that what you have contributed is likely to be good and natural-sounding.

[#1230823] If you translate from your second language into your own native language, rather than the other way around, you're less likely to make mistakes.

[#1907470] It's very easy to sound natural in your own native language, and very easy to sound unnatural in your non-native language.

Even if some sentences by non-native speakers are good, it's really hard to trust that they are good, so members would be helping us much more by limiting their contributions to sentences in their own native languages. Remember that the purpose of the Tatoeba Project is to create example sentences that can be used for studying languages. It’s not really a place to be contributing non-native language sentences for others to correct for you.

[#3946394] We recommend adding sentences and translations in your strongest language. If you are interested primarily in having your sentences corrected, you should try a site like Lang-8.com, where that's the focus."

If I want to translate some text or sentence that I like to English I'll have to ask a native to add it instead of implementing a way that they can review it with a click of a button? what about the "fair use policy" a sentence or 3 from a poetry is fine by all normal standards.

I really disappointed. form all of these. hope you be more friendly and understanding.
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cueyayotl
11 days ago
First of all, we are sorry you feel this way, however there simply have to be certain conventions by which we must abide in order for this project to be successful.

1,3) I will reply to these two issues together. Copyright laws are stronger in some countries than they are in others. Even YouTube follows copyright laws and takes down millions of videos that break them. If you like poetry, then great! So do we :) Just make sure that the actual poetry cannot have any copyright protection applicable. If the artist died more than 50-100 years ago, you can be sure that their works can be uploaded here on Tatoeba.

If you add sentences in other languages, they may contain mistakes and be overlooked by native speakers (remaining uncorrected). This will unfortunately result in lowering the quality of the corpus, which we have to minimize at all costs. Even if your sentences are corrected, they may still sound unnatural because the sentence structure you suggested may not be the best, so that the sentence gets corrected AROUND the structure that you suggested, rather than reworded to sound more natural.
If you want to practice English, Lang-8 is an excellent site to do so! I often use that site myself :)

2) sil.org is full of great studies supporting their decisions for separating languages; definitely check them out. Your case is similar to mine; my native language is Nahuatl and we too consider it a single language. However, in all honesty, some linguistic varieties are just TOO distinct to be considered to be the same "linguistic unit"; it is even worse for Zapotec (which has been spoken in the area for thousands of years). We simply cannot have all varieties of Nahuatl added into ONE category; we must divide them into "linguistic units" which we call here "languages". Doing so is no easy task, as no matter what you do, somebody will disagree. But, it must be done through research and field studies, and careful analyses of linguistic variety, especially when dealing with a linguistic continuum.
You must recognize, that a rose by any other name... is still a rose. What we call the Arabic macrolanguage, you call the Arabic language, and what we call the Gulf Arabic language, you call the Gulf Dialect of Arabic. My Nahuatl language is divided into 30 "languages" through the ISO 639-3 classification, and to me they are "linguistic varieties", but in the end, I know what each "linguistic unit" means, and so does everyone else... so now we can work together.

We hope that you understand, and we do apologize if we hurt your feelings, as that is most definitely not our intention. Please do let us know if you have any other concerns that need to be address, we will be here for you :)
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damascene
10 days ago
Fair use of others work
=================

If I copied two-four lines of a 30 lines poetry I should attach a death certificate of the poet? or other legal documents? I do not see this practical. its fair use that is annoying to find such non standard strict rules about it, that also prevent the use of Wikipedia CC-SA licensed source.

Translating to non native language
=================
Me translating English part, I do not feel that I'll translate to English again. I did not want to practice English. Just wanted to share a poetry. I do not feel like English should always be the feeder and other be the receiver. It would be better if other cultures were translated to English without waiting for native English speaker to learn their language then translate it. It's English that we are talking about. it's the least language that you should worry about. it has billions of studying material. I believe English is necessity but it does not mean that it should be placed higher than other languages.

Language learning website Lang-8
=================
Lang-8, I did not see what license they are using? are they non profit? do they share their sentence database publicly or it's closed for their own use? could it disappear as it happen to livemocha with all user contributions?

SIL Specifications
=================
I do not want to extend the discussion on this as I do not like to get into more Arguments about it without having enough knowledge on other languages. but I'm sure we can understand each other easily without the need to learn another language as stated in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...ntelligibility that differ between languages/variations.

Thank you for taking time to responding.
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Ooneykcall
10 days ago - edited 10 days ago
>If I copied two-four lines of a 30 lines poetry I should attach a death certificate of the poet? or other legal documents? I do not see this practical. its fair use that is annoying to find such non standard strict rules about it, that also prevent the use of Wikipedia CC-SA licensed source.

Tatoeba appears to operate on some sort of common understanding here. I think Tatoeba admins just hate the thought of having to deal with copyright enforcement (having to respond to their demands), so if there is a remote possibility of that happening, copyright-infringing sentences will get deleted 'to be on the safe side', but if it's a little-known source that few have heard of (so any copyright action is very unlikely to happen), it will most likely not be picked up.
odexed
11 days ago - edited 11 days ago
Hi, damascene

Nice to see you here and that's a pity that you are disappointed.
Here I share some of my thoughts about what you wrote.
1) GPL license is used for software, it's not something appropriate for Tatoeba, I think. Creative Commons licenses are good for all kinds of creative works. There is CC BY-NC 2.0 that is for uncommercial use but Tatoeba permits to use its data for other projects (even commercial) so if you contribute sentences you have to agree with that.

2) We don't split Arabic language but represent the current situation as other qualified linguists do. You may have no trouble speaking Arabic from different countries but for me they are really different. For example, تذهب الآن إلى السوق in Syrian Arabic would be انت هلق بروح ع السوق and in Saudi Arabia انت دخّين تروح ع السوق
There are even differences in pronounciation, for example ق in Saudi Arabia sounds different from how it's pronounced in Syria. Or ج in Egypt and in other countries.
Also there are differences in grammar and vocabulary is totally different.

3) It takes some time to get used to the rules but we all obey them.
Anyway your contribution is valuable and as a student of Arabic I read your sentences too. Thank you.
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damascene
10 days ago
Hi Odexed,

Nice to see you too.
1) I liked the spirit of GPL, It's counterpart in CC would be CC-SA (Share a Like) so user works for example can not get used by Google or Yandex without them returning back to the community they took from. I'm not against commercial use, but I think if you benefit from my work you should also share it back.

2) The three example you provided are just different choices of words.
fore example:

(فلما _ذهبوا_ به واجمعوا ان يجعلوه في غيابت الجب واوحينا اليه لتنبئنهم بامرهم هذا وهم لا يشعرون) Yusuf 15:12
here it uses ذهب as in Syrian Arabic

in انت هلق بروح ع السوق the used the word راح as in:
(ولسليمان الريح غدوها شهر _ورواحها_ شهر واسلنا له عين القطر ومن الجن من يعمل بين يديه باذن ربه ومن يزغ منهم عن امرنا نذقه من عذاب السعير) Saba 34-12

for the word حين:
(الذي يراك حين تقوم) Ash-Shu'ara (The Poets) 26:218

for the ع: it's a shortcut for على

so they are just one language using different combinations, I see it similar to the difference between Scottish English/British English/Indian English.
If you write it as you hear it I'm sure it would not be the same thing.
damascene
6 days ago
4. I've found a sentence that was translated to many languages that says "Putin is a **** head"

I do not like Putin, but how such sentence got here, Does Tatoeba allow personal attacks on public figures? Can I put any name I want?
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Impersonator
6 days ago
We have a precedent of a sentence #2926572 (Mandela was the terrorist, Mandela was the murderer.) being deleted, so probably you can get this one deleted for the same reasons. However, apparently no one cared about Putin enough to get the sentence deleted so far.
odexed
6 days ago - edited 6 days ago
The censorship on Tatoeba is quite vague. Some sentences like the one mentioned by Impersonator are being deleted, others like #4111307 and #3459609 are considered as freedom of expression. So you could chance it.
cueyayotl
6 days ago
I agree with odexed that censorship here is quite vague, but it is more important to have more of a variety of sentences rather than many sentences of that format: "X is a **** head!" just by replacing 'X' with one of many other names. In the end, it may just be best to use names like Tom or Mary.
I think the main instance where such sentences were deleted was when using one of our users' names.
TRANG
8 days ago
There will be a small change to make the search button look more clickable:
https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/736

The dev website has been updated to include this change so you can test it there: http://dev.tatoeba.org/eng/

Please let me know if this changes doesn't feel suitable for you (and why).


I'd also like to inform/remind everyone that there will be a Tatoeba Day this Sunday (May 1st).
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alexmarcelo
8 days ago
Bravo !
AlanF_US
8 days ago
It looks good to me.
alexmarcelo
8 days ago
::: Request to become an Advanced Contributor* :::
User number 68437, ToinhoAlam (https://tatoeba.org/eng/user/profile/ToinhoAlam), who contributes primarily in Portuguese, is applying for the AC status. Any pros and cons should be sent directly to me, Pfirsichbaeumchen or Shishir, unless ToinhoAlam publicly states that the discussion can be held here.

*Advanced Contributors are able to link sentences and add tags.
sharptoothed
9 days ago
** Sentences & Translations Stats **

These stats have been updated:

http://tatoeba.j-langtools.com/transtop/

Graphs have been updated, too.

http://tatoeba.j-langtools.com/graphs.html
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alexmarcelo
9 days ago - edited 9 days ago
I'm glad to see Latin and Marathi in that top 10. :-)
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sharptoothed
8 days ago
Oh yes, this dead language looks pretty alive. :-D
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