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Wall (3581 threads)

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mouseburglar
yesterday
Hey guys, I am new here :)

I managed to learn a language thanks to this project, so now I want to repay my thanks and contribute. I'm Swiss, so my question was if it would be possible to add Swiss-German sentences. It's a bit of a language on its own and I know many people coming to my country would be interested in a tool like this to learn our language.
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raggione
23 hours ago
Grüezi, Daniel!
Hört sich grossartig an!
Sounds great. Personally I can't help you with the technical side of it. But somebody else will, I'm sure.
gillux
15 hours ago
Hello mouseburglar.

I’m afraid we can’t, because Swiss-German doesn’t have a registered ISO code, which is a strong requirement for adding new languages. You can read more details about this here: http://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/arti...guage-request.

The way we currently mark regional variations of a language is by using tags (http://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/articles/show/tags). Sounds like someone already created tags for Swiss German, see for example #760215.
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sabretou
11 hours ago
ISO lists Swiss German as 'gsw': http://www-01.sil.org/iso639-3/...ion.asp?id=gsw

The name is shared with Alemannic and Alsatian, however. The ISO code definitely points towards 'German, SWiss' however.
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gillux
10 hours ago
Maybe that’s because gsw is a different thing. The Wikipedia article¹ says that Swiss German “refers to any of the Alemannic dialects spoken in Switzerland and in some Alpine communities in Northern Italy.” And that “the dialects of Swiss German must not be confused with Swiss Standard German, the variety of Standard German used in Switzerland.”

Maybe a native speaker or otherwise well informed member could comment on that matter.

¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_German
TRANG
15 days ago
We're working on a feature to show more/less translations when there are too many translations. This is an attempt to implement the ideas raised by tommy_san and Vortarulo back here:
http://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/sho...#message_21157

The work is still in progress but I'm posting here some screenshots to give you an idea of how it currently looks like.

* When there's only 1 sentences group: http://prntscr.com/65gtvl
* When there are several sentences groups: http://prntscr.com/65gys4

Any feedback will be appreciated (about the colors, position, wording... anything).
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CK
CK
15 days ago
I'd like to always see all translations without needing an extra click, except on the "home" page's "random sentence."

Personally, I don't like the random sentence at the top of the "home" page.
I'd prefer that it be either taken off, or moved to the bottom of the page, since I often need to scroll past it to see what I really want to see on the "home" page.

Using your idea of a "show more translations" link would help solve the problem of needing to scroll past the random sentence. Another idea for the random sentence displayed on the "home" page would be to have only the sentence showing with a "show translations" link when there are translations connected to the sentence.
CK
CK
15 days ago
Another way to solve the problem of showing too many translations would be to add one more option to the "languages" setting on this page http://tatoeba.org/eng/user/settings.

That option would be to allow showing all translations when on a sentence's page, but apply the languages filter to all other times sentences appear.

I would more likely use this filtering if I knew I could still see all translations when I was on the a sentence's page. (Example of a sentence's page = [#1434])
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CK
CK
15 days ago - edited 15 days ago
Here's another variation that might be useful.

1. Don't make any change that affects all sentences.

2. Encourage people who want to see fewer translations to use the "languages" setting on this page http://tatoeba.org/eng/user/settings.

3. When the settings in #2 are set, show an "other translations" button at the bottom if other translations also exist. (Don't show the button if no other translations exist.)

Here are the advantages.

* Only languages that a member really wants to see as translations are shown.

* There is an indication that other translations exist, and an easy way to see them all if you want to see them.

* One of the problems with the "languages" setting is that sometimes people forget that they aren't seeing all the translations, so they have been confused about indirect translations, and they have contributed duplicates of sentences in languages that aren't being shown to them. This suggested change would also take care of that problem somewhat.

The main disadvantage:

* Visitors who are not logged in will always see all the translations. (This may be a good thing, though, since it helps new visitors realize that many sentences have many translations.)




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Shishir
14 days ago
+1
TRANG
14 days ago
I would need to know in what kind of situations do you need to see all the translations right away. Does it really help you in contributing or in the corpus maintenance, or is it that what you really need to know is an idea of how many translations there are for a given sentence?

If you search for instance "I love you", without specifying the target language, you realize how the 1st sentences takes the whole space. Of course this is an edge case right now, but as Tatoeba grows, more and more sentences will look like that. I think that's too confusing for non logged in users.
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Shishir
13 days ago - edited 13 days ago
It really helps me to be able to see the whole bunch of translations when linking sentences, sometimes I link Turkish sentences with French, English, German or Spanish sentences that might not be visible with this new button, and it would be tiring to have to click on the button ten or fifteen times per page to be able to link ten or fifteen sentences.
sabretou
15 days ago
It took me a while to notice the More Translations button. I'd suggest making it more easily visible in some what, for example using a white-on-green theme, like the "Send" button below this message reply box.
TRANG
yesterday
I have updated the dev website (http://dev.tatoeba.org) so that everyone can actually test the current implementation of the collapsible translations. It's not final yet.

What I would like is that anyone who has time tries to use the dev website as if they were using Tatoeba, and report any issues, anything that could be improved, related to this feature.

Last time I only posted pictures and I know there is a big difference between just imagining how it's like based on pictures, and what it's really like when you use a feature for real. So I would like confirmation about the following:

1) At the moment, the feature is applied to all the sentences, everywhere. Do you find yourself having to click on "Show more" way too often, and find it annoying enough that you would rather not have the button at all?
2) Or do you find that in most situations, it saves you the time from having to scroll forever and actually prefer to have this button everywhere?
3) Is there any specific page where you need to have this button, or need to NOT have this button?
4) How do you feel about the color, position, wording, size of the buttons?

Of course any other feedback is welcome.

Thanks.
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CK
CK
yesterday - edited yesterday
>> 1) Do you find yourself having to click on "Show more" way too often, and find it annoying enough that you would rather not have the button at all?

It would be nice to show all translations we have chosen in our profile settings to display, for those who have chosen to limit which languages are displayed.

For example, with the setting, eng,jpn, this sentence still gets a "show 25 more translations" button.
http://dev.tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/17125

Maybe the button should only be shown to members who haven't chosen a limited set of languages to display.

If a member has made a choice to limit which languages are shown, then show all of those translations.

This would apply to pages like these, too.
http://dev.tatoeba.org/eng/tags...g/7/eng/page:7
http://dev.tatoeba.org/eng/sent...ent/page:50544



>> 3) Is there any specific page where you need to have this button, or need to NOT have this button?

I like it on the home page.

Perhaps on the "Random sentence" on the home page, only show 1 or 2 translations, and then the button.

As long as we're going to have to click a button for "more," we might as well be able to see the "Latest contributions" and "Latest comments" without needing to scroll so much.



>> 4) How do you feel about the color, position, wording, size of the buttons?

In English, "Fewer translations" would be better than "Less translations."

The position, color and size are OK with me.



>> Of course any other feedback is welcome.

1. The "show more translations" button didn't work for me on this page.
http://dev.tatoeba.org/eng/acti...s_of/CK/page:2

2. I'd like to see this made optional.
In other words, add it as an option on this page.
http://dev.tatoeba.org/eng/user/settings
If it doesn't negatively affect the way tatoeba.org works, you could even allow members to choose how many translations to show before the button appears.

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gillux
14 hours ago
I totally agree with CK on 1). Currently, the reason translations are showed is that they are direct and appear first, because their 3-letters code starts with a letter at the beginning of the English alphabet. No one cares about such a reason. The only good reason to show translations and hide others, is that the user want to see these only. So we should show the languages specified in the profile, regardless of the actual number of translations.

That being said, this would mean showing direct and indirect translations in the specified languages while hiding direct and indirect translations in other languages, which would break the current direct/indirect layout. Once you click show, you’d end up with direct/indirect, and then other direct/indirect. Or we keep directs and indirects always grouped, in a way clicking show add sentences in the middle of the group instead of just appending them.

Apart from that, I like the design of the button.

I suggest using a verb on the hide button too for consistency, such as “Show fewer translations”, or even “Show the first x translations”.
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CK
CK
14 hours ago - edited 14 hours ago
>Currently, the reason translations ... [snip] ... their 3-letters code starts with a letter at the beginning of the English alphabet.

Perhaps an alternate to sorting the way languages of translations are listed would be to sort them in the order they appear on the "stats/sentences_by_language" page, rather than alphabetically by the 3-letter code.

http://tatoeba.org/eng/stats/sentences_by_language

I'm not sure this is a good idea, but it's an idea to consider.
Perhaps this would put the languages people are most interested in near the top of the translations.
sabretou
yesterday
First off, the button doesn't seem to work on me for the Random Sentence on the main page. It appears to work alright on all other pages.

1) I find it annoying, like CK, that the specific languages I want to see are hidden. I haven't set them specifically in the options yet admittedly. The best approach to this feature would be if the user-defined languages are seen by default with a 'more' button to fetch the other translations. Otherwise, you're more or less looking at an unnecessary click every sentence, unless your target language starts from A or B.

2) I don't actually mind having to scroll really, but I also like the compactness of the new style, so I'm ambivalent.

3) As I said, clicking the button doesn't do anything for me on the home page. No other complaints though.

4) Agreed with CK to change the English translation to "Fewer" instead of "Less". If it were upto me, I'd have picked a full-width button with a green theme myself. Then again, I'm not a graphic designer. Probably with good reason.

Other feedback:

Also agreed with CK to make it an option. It should be on by default, I think, to avoid overwhelming new users.
paoloaccordi
yesterday
sorry...the audio does not work
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CK
CK
yesterday
Try this interface to some of the English sentences.

http://a4esl.com/temporary/tato...io/eng/90.html

It uses a different audio player than tatoeba.org, so it might play the audio files for you better.
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Guybrush88
yesterday
I'm wondering if that player is suitable also for Tatoeba itself. Personally I'd find it better to listen to audio files directly from Tatoeba if I'm browsing it. This would be, in my opinion, better also for all the users who don't speak/learn English, since that link works only for English, and anyone not speaking it can't listen to any of the audio files in any other language.
gillux
15 hours ago
paoloaccordi, can you hear sound from other sites, like Youtube? If so, could you please tell us what operating system are you using (e.g. Windows, Mac, Linux), what browser and its version (e.g. Chrome 40.0.2214.115, Firefox 35.0.2, Opera 27.0.1689.76).
KemNan
17 hours ago
Hi All,

I am a native Hungarian from Budapest, Hungary.
I like languages!
My german is quite good, and I working on polishing my english.
I've been taught russian at school, but unfortunately it's gone...

Cheers,
.Nándi.
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Trinkschokolade
17 hours ago - edited 17 hours ago
Will­kom­men auf Tatoeba! ☺

Da Sonderzeichen in Namen noch nicht angezeigt werden können, empfehle ich dir, diese vorerst in irgendetwas lesbares umzuwandeln... ☺
(Ich rede von deinem Profil)
mraz
16 hours ago
Üdv. Kemeny Nandor olvasható lenne. Jó Tatoebázást! mraz
Lemmih
20 hours ago
The owner of sentence #2881761 has disappeared. Can I adopt the sentence? It has a typo in it that I would like to fix.
umangarora
20 hours ago
Hello Everyone

I am Umang Arora, B.Tech 3rd year computer Science student from IIIT DELHI, India. I am working on my proposal for GSoC 2015 under the topic "Improvement of communication tools" which includes improving this wall itself like segregating threads based on different filters etc so i would love to know from all of you, your suggestions for the same.
Please let me know what kind of problems you come across while using this Wall and what kind of upgrades you will love to see.

Looking forward to some great suggestions.

Umang.
TRANG
yesterday
I'm working on fixing something with the homepage and I will need a bit of help for the wordings.

Most of you are probably unaware of the problem because it doesn't affect logged in users, but there are currently 2 "homepages".

1. the page that you land in when you go to http://tatoeba.org/ (we'll call it "index")
2. the page that you land in when you click on "Home" in the menu (we'll call it "home")

When you are logged in, if you try to go to the "index" page, you get redirected automatically to the "home" page, so you never get to see the "index" page. But that's not the case for non-logged in users.

My goal is to merge the index and home page, in a way that doesn't affect logged in users.

What I have in mind currently looks like this: http://prntscr.com/6beuq6

* This top content will be displayed only to non logged in users.
* Everything that is below this top content is the same that what a logged in user would see.
* The video will be removed from the home page and placed in an "About" page.

What I would need help for is:
* the short description of Tatoeba --> What do you think should be written there?
* the content of the "About" page --> I will simply put the video in there at first, but there's definitely more that we can write in the page. I haven't decided yet what to write in there, and I welcome any suggestion.
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Gulo_Luscus
yesterday
Non-English characters on the users' pages are not supported now.

ü in my surname is not being displayed correctly:
http://puu.sh/gi57n/b67b963906.png

Is anyone aware of that?
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sabretou
yesterday
Is this happening on the standard site or the dev.tatoeba site? I checked both and my profile is rendering correctly, and I use 4 scripts in it. I also edited in an ü to check, and it rendered correctly as well. I think this might be a browser problem. I'm using Firefox 37 on Windows 7 64-bit myself.
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Gulo_Luscus
23 hours ago
Thanks for testing. It's same on the both sites. I checked it with 2 different browsers (latest versions of Chrome and IE) on the same operating system and on a mobile one (Mobile Safari) but the result is still same.
gillux
yesterday
> ü in my surname is not being displayed correctly:

My fault, sorry! Will fix it for the next release.
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Pfirsichbaeumchen
yesterday
Would it be possible to allow characters like ü (or ä) in usernames, as well?
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gillux
yesterday - edited 15 hours ago
I think it should be possible, I’d be in favour of such a thing, but I’m not sure about the problems this could introduce.

First, let me explain why we’re having restricted characters in usernames.

Usernames are used inside URLs and should be unique. It is meant to create readable URLs (for both humans and machines). They act as unique identifiers and are part of the URL when you access a page that include the user name, such as tatoeba.org/jpn/user/profile/Pfirsichbaeumchen or tatoeba.org/jpn/activities/translate_sentences_of/Pfirsichbaeumchen.

URL can actually *only* contain these restricted symbols (letters, numbers and a few symbols). If you want to include any other character, you need to convert them into percent-escape sequences that look ugly. For instance, the actual URL of the Käse German Wikipedia article is de.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4se, which only contains the restricted characters thanks to the percent escape. This extends to characters in any alphabet other than English, like Chinese, Arabic… anything supported by Unicode.

But nowadays, most browsers just display Käse instead of K%C3%A4se inside the address bar for your convenience. They can do this since 2005 because the way to do the percent-escape became standard¹, whereas it wasn’t before. So it’s mostly historical reasons.

Here are some problems I can think of because of the introduction of other characters in usernames:
• even if names would be displayed in a readable way within most browsers address bar, they wouldn’t be anymore in other contexts that include raw URLs, such as text emails, sentences comments and Wall posts (we may fix that), server logs…;
• current users should have to keep their original restricted username while new users would be able to create better usernames, unless we create a renaming feature
• the site would be vulnerable to user spoofing: a user that pretends to be someone else by creating an account that uses a name very close to an existing user, using very close characters².

¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...rrent_standard
² https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3987#section-8
Gulo_Luscus
23 hours ago
Okay, thank you.
CK
CK
yesterday
"Add and translate your own sentences" implies that you need to translate your own sentences.

You've already seen 2 of my suggestions that would work for the "Learn more" page.

http://a4esl.com/temporary/tatoeba/
http://www.manythings.org/tatoeba/start/

These both concisely give visitors to our website what they need to know right away.
sabretou
yesterday
My version of it:

"Tatoeba is a database of example sentences for language learners.

Search example sentences and find translations in your native language. Add or translate sentences to help other language learners. It's collaborative, open, free and even addictive.

[How it works]"

I'm consciously de-emphasising translation, as I've seen many visitors (mostly from South Asia) under the impression that Tatoeba is an auto-translation or even human-translation service. This results in a lot of what are essentially spam sentences in South Asian languages.

I'd also keep the vocabulary simple, both because a.) visitors may not be very good at English (or any of the localised languages), and b.) it helps when localising to not use a lot of jargon.

Suggestion: if we're going to remake the the front page, might as well use some neat AJAX trickery to have the username-password-email fields on the front page itself. If the username and password is correct, you're logged in instantly. If not, you're offered to register with one click.
CK
CK
yesterday
Daily Contribution Stats - 90 months of Tatoeba Project History
http://goo.gl/8jk5Ge

Just for fun, I've made it so you can quickly browse the "show activity timeline" data without waiting for tatoeba.org to generate the data for you.
civiricus
2 days ago
hi i am new here, i can help anybody about türkish and english sentences.
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Trinkschokolade
2 days ago
Welcome to Tatoeba! ☺
Gulo_Luscus
yesterday
Merhaba, Tatoeba'ya hoş geldin. Cümlelerine birkaç yorum bıraktım:
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentence...user/civiricus

İngilizceden çeviri yapacaksan İngilizce cümlenin en üstte olmasına dikkat et. Şu anki çevirilerine İngilizce cümleleri bağlayarak diğer dilleri kaldırdım. Herhangi bir sorun olursa bana sorabilirsin. Kolay gelsin.
TRANG
2 days ago
** Tatoeba update (February 28th, 2015) **

http://blog.tatoeba.org/2015/02...28th-2015.html


# Top menu

* The icons in the top menu have been updated.
* The "Random sentence" under the "Browse" menu item has been moved to the 1st position in the list.


# Tags

* The page that lists all the tags has now pagination.
* The tags can be sorted by name and by count.
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CK
CK
2 days ago - edited 2 days ago
Is there any way to search tags now?

Before, we used to be able to go to the page and do a "find" using part of the tag name as the search.
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TRANG
2 days ago
There isn't for now.
Ooneykcall
2 days ago
>The icons in the top menu have been updated.
Why?
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TRANG
2 days ago
To use vectorial icons and to unify the icons style.
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CK
CK
2 days ago
Personally, I like color icons, since the color helps the eye find them.
Pfirsichbaeumchen
2 days ago - edited 2 days ago
>>> The page that lists all the tags has now pagination.

That makes it difficult to check whether a tag with a given keyword already exists. Searching through nearly a hundred pages is time-consuming.
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CK
CK
2 days ago
See (Almost) All Tags
http://goo.gl/d92K4x

Here is a temporary "quick fix" that you can use for now.

I had some category data, too, so I merged that in as well.
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