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Wall (358 threads)

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  1. Is there a way to disable the ROMAJI popups? (It is interfering with my rikaichan/rikaikun popups used for quick single-word lookups?)
    • try rolling over the actual sentence and not the reading...
      • Just saw the new furigana output, this is really awesome. Thanks to the Admins for installing this.
        • Thank you!!!!
        • I second this.
        • Now that I gave so much praise, I just recognized that when I click the country flags on the main page (show_all_in), all entries have the furigana of the first sentence.
          • I saw that happen once on the front page, but I couldn't get the bug to repeat.
          • If you are using Firefox, perhaps try a Ctrl+F5 (to force a reload of the cache). It was indeed a bug, but it was fixed on Tuesday ^^
    • What about the 'click on furigana line to go to explanation' thing? It was a good idea when that was first set up but it's just annoying (to me) now. It means that people can't copy and paste the text-with-furigana easily if they want to.
        • #
        • CK
        • CK
        • 3 day(s) ago
        I never liked the "click to go to the explanation about Romaji." I've accidentally gone to that page multiple times.

        However, I wonder how useful copying and pasting the Furigana line is.
        This is how the pasted text looked for me. The 2nd line, seems a bit confusing.

        ホテルで聞いて電話しています。
        ホテル で 聞いきい て 電話でんわ し て い ます 。
        My hotel told me to call you.
        Il mio hotel mi ha detto di chiamarla.
        • > I wonder how useful copying and pasting the Furigana line is.

          Not as useful as it should be. I think the ＜rp＞ tag usage must be messed up because it doesn't copy like it should.

          What you get now:

          私わたし は ()妹いもうと に ()新しいあたらしい ()帽子ぼうし を ()買っかっ て やっ た 。

          What you should get

          私(わたし)は妹(いもうと)に新しい(あたらしい)帽子(ぼうし)を買っ(かっ)ってやった。

          (N.B. still not perfect because of the way MeCab is processing things)
        • > I never liked the "click to go to the explanation about Romaji."

          I agree it's annoying. I'll take out the link and write about it in the FAQ instead.


          As for furigana, it seems the behavior changes from a browser to another. To me, it works fine when I copy-paste from Firefox 3.6 and Internet Explorer 8. The pasted string contains the parenthesis.
          But copying from Chrome or Opera won't include these parenthesis...

          Additionally, furigana does not dipslay very well from Opera.

          If anyone knows the solution to these problems, please tell me.
          • Firefox 3.6.8 here - isn't working.
            • Your source code:

              を <ruby htmlruby_processed="processed"><rp>(</rp><rp>)< /rp><rbc><rb>監視</rb></rbc><rtc><rt >かんし</rt></rtc></ruby> し た 。

              What you should have
              を <ruby htmlruby_processed="processed"><rbc><rb>監視</rb>< /rbc><rp>(</rp><rtc><rt >かんし</rt></rtc><rp>)</rp></ruby> し た 。

              How your copy n' pastes
              を ()監視かんし し た 。

              How mine copy n' pastes
              を 監視(かんし) し た 。
  2. Thursday WWWJDIC example update

    25 records deleted,
    12 new records added.
  3. Y a-t-il une trace des phrases 440226 à 440230 ? Elles ont mystérieusement disparu et n'ont même pas d'historique. Si personne ne réussit à mettre la main dessus, tant pis, il suffira de les supprimer (pour l'instant, il est écrit « Click to edit » pour les 5…).
    • je vais regarder ça, en effet c'est étrange, mais visiblement, elles seraient dans les backup, je repost quand j'aurai un peu plus d'info
    • dans les backup, ce sont 5 phrases ajoutés dans 2 secondes d'intervalle avec un texte vide
      • Je pense que tu peux les effacer : il doit s'agir d'une erreur.
  4. How come Hindi is not one of the languages one can add sentences for?
    • you can add sentences Hindi, and in fact we will be really glad if you do so, the reason Hindi is not listed is because we have yet no contributor nor no sentences in this language, and not because we do not like Hindi or whatever ^^. It's just that a language appears in the interface as soon as we have some sentences in it.

      the process to have a new language added in tatoeba is explained here
      http://tatoeba.org/eng/faq
    • *psst* to make me happy: tell me what kind of flag I should make for Hindi^^
      • The idea that a language should equate a flag is at the heart of most wars as it has been over thousands of years...
          • #
          • CK
          • CK
          • 2 day(s) ago
          Why not just use the names of the languages in each language:
          English, Français, 中文, Español, 日本語, Deutsch, Italiano, Polski, Português

          Or use a 3-letter code: Jpn, Eng, ...
          • or the official signs of the www: jp, en, es, de, eo, ru, ...
            • The 3-letter code is already used, ISO 639-3.
              Flags are simple, well-known and happy, but everyone's here know their cons ;)
            • > or the official signs of the www: jp, en, es, de, eo, ru, ...
              It's not better than flags, since country is not equal to a language.
      • Hi, Hindi is spoken in India...
        • Well, a lot of languages are spoken in India.
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Of...on_territories

          But me too I think India flag could be fine :)
          • actually, around 400 languages are spoken in India...
            What about the languages spoken in both Pakistan and India ? And Bangladesh and India ? And Sri Lanka and India ?...Should Tibetan also be represented by the People's Republic of China's flag ?!
            • No, but by the Tibetan flag yes, as it exists.
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Tibet

              It's obvious that flag system isn't perfect, but it works fine for now, doesn't it?

              If you don't think so, sacredceltic, why don't you use your creativity for creating a new flag for each language in the world? I'm sure you will like them.
              • No, however "practical" the equation might seem, I disagree with the very idea that a language should be symbolised by a flag. A flag is a banner for armies and nations and has nothing to do with languages whatsoever, as languages span borders, and nations regroup different linguistic communities.
                  • #
                  • CK
                  • CK
                  • 1 day(s) ago
                  If you are going to use a country's flag to indicate a language, perhaps it should be the country with the most native speakers of that language, for example, the US flag for English. This would at least give some justification for choosing one country's flag over another when a given language is spoken in various countries.

                  "The countries with the highest populations of native English speakers are, in descending order: United States (215 million), United Kingdom (61 million), Canada (18.2 million), Australia (15.5 million), Nigeria (4 million), Ireland (3.8 million), South Africa (3.7 million), and New Zealand (3.6 million)"
                  Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language
                  • And the "British" flag is particularly inappropriate since "Britain" includes Wales and Scotland, united under duress by the English, and where local languages include Celtic languages such as Welsh and Scottish Gaelic. English has been imposed there by force.
                    So the English language should be, at best, represented by the England flag, ie the red cross of St George on white...
                    • Most people will be confused though. I did not know about this difference until this WM, when we played against England (of course we won ;-), and they showed the red-on-white flag. Most people are more familiar with the British flag.
                      • Maybe, but the British flag as a symbol of the English language is negating to the celtic languages from Britain, and as such is abusive.
                        • You might as well say that using the American flag is negating to he Hispanic languages and thus abusive. At over 10%, far more people in America speak French than speak any celtic language in Great Britain (around 2% by my calculations).
                          • Indeed, the USA is a multilingual country where large communities speak Spanish, Yiddish, Amerindian languages, German, French, etc...
                            So that the USA flag doesn't associate in any way with a given language.
                            At the State level, nowadays, multiple languages are used for administrative purposes.
                            It might well be that in the near future, new languages might be declared official at the federal level as well...Spanish is already dominant in a few southern States.
                          • Oops. I totally wrote 'French' where I meant to write 'Spanish'.
                            • What's there to debate about the flag system? It's the most clear-cut, intuitive way to designate languages. Of course there are flaws, but I doubt you could make anything perfect without sacrificing the wonderful simplicity of the current set-up.

                              Of course you could design a symbolic set where every language is perfectly matched to every icon one-to-one in a politically correct manner, but then no one, except the hardcore linguists (if even), will understand the majority of the designations.

                              Minority groups that have their own flags/banners should have them used out of respect. If they don't, something should be made for them (out of respect). In that case, most people won't recognize the "flags" anyway, and so they could be more liberally put together.

                              Regarding British/American, that's a tough call. Culturally, it should be Britain, but by number of speakers it should be the U.S. It's really a question of what country most people first think of when they think of the English language (and that's abstract, and probably better decided by a poll).
                          • Decreeing that the English language prevails over Britain because the English troops and colonisation have enforced it for centuries over celtic populations is no different from decreeing that Chinese rule and language should prevail over Tibetan or Uighur. In both cases it is nothing else than linguistic imperialism as part of general imperialism. The Empire dies hard...
                            • All I'm "decreeing" is that English is the most common of all the languages, official, and unofficial, used in the United Kingdom by a long way. That's a fact.

                              It's also a fact that there are Welsh language primary schools, for those who want to use them, so it's hardly 'imperialism' at work.
                              • Yes it is. The very British flag is an imperialist flag, superimposing the English St George's cross over its dominion flags of Wales and Scotland.
                                It's like the People's Republic of China would superimpose its red flag over the Tibetan as its new flag to assert its rule, adding insult to occupation...
                                It is a fact that Welsh and Gaelic are British languages as well, which actually predated English on this island by several hundreds of years, so there is no reason for the British flag to symbolise English and it is actually offensive to speakers of Celtic languages in Britain.
                • #
                • CK
                • CK
                • 1 day(s) ago
                As mentioned earlier, one solution would be to use the already existing 3-letter codes used by Tatoeba.
                Here is a quick example showing the top languages displayed on the home page.
                http://a4esl.com/temporary/tatoeba/flags/
                • #
                • CK
                • CK
                • 1 day(s) ago
                Here is another possibility for language icons.

                Though not really intuitive, this is an interesting concept.
                http://www.languageicon.org/index-icon.php

                Perhaps using these icons with the 3-letter code superimposed on the image, would be a solution.
      • A flag of India will probably work best. If other Indian languages are added, then you can make a flag of India with the letters "हि" superimposed.
  5. S'il est essentiel que les phrases commencent par une lettre capitale, pourquoi ne pas prévoir un algorithme qui se charge de capitaliser à la validation de la phrase ?
    Ceci permettrait de gagner un temps important de correction.
    • la chose est prévue depuis longtemps, après comme pour beaucoup des fonctionnalités manquantes dans tatoeba (listés ici http://www.assembla.com/spaces/tatoeba2/tickets), cela est dû à un manque de temps, le "code" de tatoeba est principalement géré par moi et Trang, et malheureusement Tatoeba n'étant pas rentable, nous avons un travail a coté.
      De plus une partie de notre temps "libre" que nous allouons à Tatoeba, est occupé à guider les nouveaux venus, répondre aux questions qu'on nous pose, éviter que des tensions se crées au sein de la communauté, vérifier (un peu) les phrases qui ont été ajoutées. On rajoute à cela le temps nécessaire pour répondre aux sollicitations externes, projets voulant réutiliser les données de tatoeba, et nous même essayer de trouver des projets susceptibles d'être intéressés par tatoeba.
      Tout cela fait qu'il reste des milliers d'améliorations, petites ou grande, que nous n'avons pas encore eu le temps de faire.

      De plus il y a quelque temps, j'ai corrigé automatiquement les capitalisations de l'ensemble des phrases françaises déjà présentes dans tatoeba, ce qui rend la tâche de faire un outil qui corrigerait automatiquement à l'insertion moins urgentes.

      Mais je suis d'accord, qu'à terme nous mettrons en place un tel mécanisme.
  6. If it's essential that people participating in the Tatoeba Project breathe, why aren't they supplied with a medical ventilator?
    • Good idea, you must be breathless with all these dots and capital letters to constantly check everywhere !
  7. Si il est essentiel de mettre un point à la fin de chaque phrase, pourquoi ne pas prévoir un test qui l'ajoute automatiquement dans la transaction de validation après saisie de la phrase, ou tout au moins qui signale qu'un point est manquant ?
  8. Would be a idea to consider to have the tatoeba database able to share with another applications or to download in other formats? An example, download a list of sentences in japanese and save as .rtf or an mnemozyne file....
    • hi, we already support csv export of sentences, which is a pretty standard format, which can be open with at least anki (a mnemozyne like software) excel/ open office/notepad etc.
      I don't see yet what will be the difference between rtf and csv, except the last can be open and reuse by more software, and I will be suprised if mnemozyne can't import from csv, I don't know this software, but all other SRS I know support csv import.
      • hm, sorry about my noobness hehehhe. I'll check it ! thanks. However, I didn't mention but I also mean web applications...
        • no problem ^^ all web languages I know (ruby/php/python) provide direct function to handle csv files.
          • ok, sysko, I'm done here, :P
  9. I cannot change my own sentences anymore? Does anybody know?
    • The possible reasons are:
      1) you have let it go (clicked on the button above the sentence)
      2) it has been merged (your sentence was already in the database, and the script has deleted your one and copied all the translations to the older one)
  10. Ein Satz kann in einer Sprache mehrere Bedeutungen haben.
    In einer anderen braucht man dann verschiedene Sätze.
    Wie wird dem Rechnung getragen?
    Bei mehreren Bedeutungen sollte das vermerkt werden.
    Auch sollte es möglich sein den Primeren Satz zu kennzeichnen.
    • ganz einfach: es könne so viele Übersetzungen in einer Sprache hinzugefügt werden, wie man möchte.
      Vermerkt werden muss also nichts, da ja für jeden sichtbar ist, wenn ein Satz mehrere Übersetzungen hat.

      Interessante mehrdeutige Sätze, werden mit dem Tag "ambiguous" versehen (http://tatoeba.org/deu/tags/sho..._tag/ambiguous).

      Mit "interessant" meine ich eben nicht Beispiele wie
      "you are" kann "du bist...", "ihr seid...", "Sie sind..." bedeuten,
      sondern Sätze hinter denen etwas mehr steckt.

      Übrigens: Willkommen auf Tatoeba =)! Und bitte keine Scheu, weitere Fragen zu stellen.
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