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Wall (3918 threads)

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Guybrush88
20 hours ago
I just noticed that the autocompletion of tags still shows tags that don't exist anymore (like "futuro" and "condizionale"), while new tags don't show up. Some examples of new tags that don't show up:
https://tatoeba.org/ita/tags/view_all/congiuntivo

https://tatoeba.org/ita/tags/view_all/passato
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ricardo14
18 hours ago
@Guybrush88,

I've created a ticket for it: - https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/757
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Guybrush88
17 hours ago
saw it, thanks :)
cueyayotl
10 days ago - edited 10 days ago
I can't adopt/unadopt sentences on my Smartphone. Is anybody else having this problem?

Edit: Also, when I want to apply a "Language Filter", it automatically selects the language above the language previously selected and loads the new page. I usually have to hit the "X" next to the address bar to stop the page from loading, select the language I ACTUALLY want for my "Language Filter" and Then wait for my page to load.
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PaulP
10 days ago
> I can't adopt/unadopt sentences on my Smartphone. Is anybody else having this problem?

Yes. Same here on my iPhone. The programmers are aware of the problem.
ricardo14
17 hours ago
@Cueyayotl and PaulP

There's now a ticket for it ► https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/758
TRANG
2 days ago - edited 2 days ago
** Tatoeba Day #6 **

Tatoeba Day starts now! And as usual will end in 24 hours.

If you don't know what Tatoeba Day is about, you can find information about it here:
http://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/arti...ow/tatoeba-day


For this Tatoeba Day, we're introducing some new labels on GitHub:
- [status:pending]
- [status:accepted]
- [status:rejected]


How is this going to work?

​1. Like previously, each participant is limited to 2 requests.

2. You can request anything, but you should take the time to look at the issues on GitHub (https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues). Maybe the thing you want to request has been requested before, and instead of writing a whole post, you can simply post the link to the GitHub issue. If the request is not logged yet, we will create a new issue for it.

3. Requests that are enhancement (as opposed to bugs) will be marked with the label [status:pending].

4. The community will have up to 2 weeks to discuss about a pending issues. During this time, members can express their opinion (on the Wall) about whether or not they want the issue to be implemented or not.

5. After 2 weeks, if the issue is considered to be valid, it will be marked with the label [status:accepted]. Otherwise, it will be closed and labeled with [status:rejected].

6. In the next Tatoeba Days, only issues that are labeled [status:accepted] will be considered for implementation.

7. Bugs do not need to go through this process. Bugs are valid and automatically accepted as long as they can be reproduced.

Note: This doesn't mean that in the future only requests labeled [status:accepted] will be implemented. Issues that are not labeled [status:accepted] may still be implemented. The point of having a label [status:accepted] is that during Tatoeba Day, developers won't need to worry about implementing something that will be removed later because it turns out that the community doesn't like it.


With this new workflow, for this Tatoeba Day, only requests for *bug fixes* will be considered to be added to the next Tatoeba update.

You can check what will be included in the next update on this page:
https://github.com/Tatoeba/tato...nes/2015-08-31

Happy Tatoeba Day!
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Guybrush88
2 days ago
first request:

https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/608

having this issue fixed would be helpful for anyone, imo, since any user might want to reset his/her password for any reason
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TRANG
yesterday
This issue cannot be reproduced anymore.
Guybrush88
2 days ago
second request:

https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/23

when searching for something, I guess it would be better to see if there are actually no results or if there has been a problem during the search, so that, in the latter case, people can easily report it
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TRANG
yesterday
I've taken a look at this, and unfortunately I don't see an easy way to do this.

This is not high priority enough that I can afford to take the time to fix it any time in the near future.

When the search doesn't work, people end up figuring out quite quickly, even without a specific message for it so fixing this would be nice to have, but not critical for the user experience.
CK
CK
2 days ago
Get the duplicate-merging script to also merge the new ratings the way that tags are moved.

https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/746
CK
CK
2 days ago
Show indirect translations when browsing lists.

https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/695

Other pages that allow you to browse sentences show the indirect translations.
sharptoothed
2 days ago
Wrong sentence count displaying sentences in "Browse by language" feature when both "Not directly translated into:" and "Only sentences with audio:" filters used and, as a consequence, broken paging.

How to reproduce.
1. Open https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...nly-with-audio
Japanese sentences with audio will be found and displayed. Remember the sentence count in the result (474 at the moment).
2. Press ">>" button and make sure that paging is working correctly. You will be taken to the page 48.
3. Now select 'English' in the "Not directly translated into:" drop-down menu. The page will be reloaded and you'll notice that the sentence count remained unchanged.
3. Press ">>" and see the page 48 with blank sentence list. Currently, only 10 pages of the Japanese sentences with audio not translated into English exist.
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CK
CK
2 days ago
The related issue on GitHub is https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/718
TRANG
yesterday
This has been fixed. You can test it on the dev website (with other languages than the ones you mentioned though, since the dev website is behind in terms of content).
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sharptoothed
yesterday - edited yesterday
Thanks, Trang! Everything seems to work just fine.
raggione
2 days ago
My request:
List the sentences in people's collections in the reverse order from what it is now, so that the latest items are the first and the oldest come last.
This is how sentences are displayed when you open "my sentences" for example.
I find this easier to work with.
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TRANG
yesterday
I have created an issue for it: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/756
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raggione
yesterday
Thanks. Sounds good.
ricardo14
yesterday
ricardo14
yesterday - edited yesterday
Request two


1) http://prntscr.com/84rd0e - Add the buttons "translate", "edit"(if applicable), "favorite it", "add to list", and rate as "ok", "unsure", "not OK" on lastest sentences list.
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ricardo14
yesterday
Sorry, I mislaid that...
lipao
yesterday
If you're going to implement this… please make it optional. Also, I don't really think you should have the option to translate a sentence without seeing its existing translations; otherwise you'll create duplicates very often.
Selena777
yesterday
I suggest to make it possible for every user to create their own private lists of contributors and display the sentences, added only by the contributors from the certain list (now we can only browse the sentences, added by one single contributor, but not by the group of contributors). For example, "Native British English contributors", "The German contributors, I like the most", and so on. Also it would be possible to display all the sentences in the language, excluding those, added by contributors from the certain "black" list (like "Chinese contributors, which style I don't like"). I suppose those lists only for private personal usage, so it's not any kinds of ratings, but the feature for user's commodity.
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TRANG
yesterday
This would need to be discussed more before we create an issue for it.

I understand the core idea, but it will be too complicated to implement it the way you described it.

From your description, my feeling is that you would like to be able to easily browse sentences and translate sentences of a certain group of contributors, that you have identified as trustworthy contributors, for a certain language.

So my question is: would it be enough if as a first step, you could create a list of native contributors in a specific language (list of English native contributors, list of German native contributors, etc)?
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Selena777
yesterday
Yes, the idea is about creating groups of contributors.

But it's even not about "trustworthed" or "untrustworthed" contributors.
The option "only native speakers sentences" is already exists, and it works well.
But personally for me nativeness is not so important, cause almost all people I interact in English aren't natives, and I consider English as a kind of international language (of course, I talk about advanced level contributors, not about beginners, which contaminate the corpus with weird and grammatical incorrect sentences). For Italian, Guybrush 88 makes a good job to keep the corpus clean and check and tag non-native sentences, so they can be considered trustworthed enough in my opinion.

There is another issue.
Firstly, many languages are spoken in more than one country. So, the ideal case would be if each sentence is marked with tags which dialect is it (if the sentence fits for several dialects, there should be several tags). But I think, it's impossible for now.
So, as I try to stick British English rules in spelling, vocabulary and pronunciation, I would like at least to have a list of BrE speakers.
Secondly, my personal preference is translating sentences, that express some thouths and feelings, tell some interesting facts, or just not trivial. Translating those phrases is much more fun, but not all the contributors create something like that.

I tried to describe the whole idea and my personal preferences, of course, every member could use that feature for their own purpose. The main thing, those lists should be visible only to their owners, and serve for their commodity, and if someone include you into their "white" or "black" list it shouldn't impact on your rating or "trustworthness".
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CK
CK
yesterday
It seems like what you want is a way to find sentences to translate that meet certain criteria.

Maybe this could more easily be accomplished with the following changes to the advanced search.

1. Allow searching for sentences by more than just one username.

For example, you might want to search just sentences by certain native German speakers

Pfirsichbaeumchen, al_ex_an_der, Esperantostern, MUIRIEL

2. Allow searching for sentences in lists.

For example, you might want to only search for English sentences in my lists of proofread sentences.

907, 1255

(tommy_san has similar lists for Japanese.)
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tommy_san
yesterday
> 1. Allow searching for sentences by more than just one username.

I was about to write the same thing.

If you type the usernames once, they will appear from then on just by typing the first letter.

Of course, it would be more comfortable if we could make groups of members that we can use anytime for search. I also proposed it before.
https://tatoeba.org/wall/show_m...#message_22851

We won't need a system to distinguish between "white lists" and "black lists". Sometimes you may want to limit to sentences by British English speakers, while sometimes you may want to exclude them.
Selena777
23 hours ago
Thanks, I didn't know there was such a possibility. So, it's possible to keep all the lists in a text file and paste them in the search line.
TRANG
yesterday
Tatoeba Day is now over.

You can check what will be included in the next Tatoeba update on this page:
https://github.com/Tatoeba/tato...31+is%3Aclosed

Requests that were made during the previous Tatoeba Days but not implemented have been marked with [status:pending], you can find the list here:
https://github.com/Tatoeba/tato...atus%3Apending

Please take the time to review these requests. If there is a request in this list that you think should not be implemented, or should be implemented differently, simply post a comment about it on the Wall.

Next Tatoeba Day is scheduled on September 12 (in 2 weeks).

Thank you for your participation!
CK
CK
23 hours ago
** Members Active in August 2015 **

http://goo.gl/zjOdMG

Guybrush88 said something about wanting to know who was active, so I compiled this because I was interested in knowing, too.
Guybrush88
3 days ago - edited 3 days ago
*New feature suggestion*

Would it be possible to add a feature where you can see if the owner of a sentence is active or not?
Right now, if I want to leave a comment on a sentence (to point out a mistake or to ask for an explanation), I can't see if the owner is active or not, and, for this reason, I have to open his/her profile if I don't see any answer to check if he's active or not, so maybe a message next to the username above the sentence could be useful, so I can already see if the owner is active or not before leaving a comment, in order to be sure whether i can have an answer from him/her without having to open his/her profile.
My idea is to show a message only when the user is inactive
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Ooneykcall
3 days ago - edited 3 days ago
With mistakes, we could actually get rid of the two-week waiting period before modifying a sentence if the user has been completely inactive (no sentences, no comments, no activity whatsoever) for over three months, since that means they have most likely forgotten about Tatoeba or put it on a very long hold or something – either way, people who have been absent for so long aren't going to access it any time soon, most likely.
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ricardo14
3 days ago
+1
ricardo14
3 days ago
Maybe an account could be considered "inactive" after an admin contact someone that hasn't contributed since a specific period (last log was 6 months ago, 1 year ago etc) and if s/he doesn't not answer after 1 week, for example, or if this person says that it won't be possible to contribute anymore, that account could be set as "inactive" or something like that.
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sharptoothed
3 days ago
I think we should have more mercy for our admins and not make them do such a boring job. :-) Instead a robot that sends e-mails to potentially inactive members and processes responds from them could be developed.
al_ex_an_der
yesterday - edited yesterday
>>> "we could actually get rid of the two-week waiting period before modifying a sentence"
I don't think so. This procedure works without problems. How often someone contributes isn't relevant. During two weeks everybody has (and should have) a fair chance to react. You never know if and when someone reappears. The proof of the pudding is in waiting two weeks. :)))
And in addition there are advantages for the Corpus Maintainers (like me) too. I not only have learnt to be a bit more patient; I'm prevented to make too fast changes. Other Tatoebians can comment my proposals and tell me that I'm wrong. "Checks and balances."


A different question is, what should be done with sentences of contributors who definitely declared that they are leaving Tatoeba for ever, of them who have died already and of those who have been inactive during more than let's say 3 years. There are such cases. I think a sound solution would be to hand over their sentences to contributors with a good command of the concerning language (of course only, if they are willing to check them and to take care of them).
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Ooneykcall
yesterday
There are a lot of years-old misshaped sentences, and it's rare for someone who had been completely absent for so long to appear again. The waiting period is supposed to allow discussion, and if the original author doesn't appear on the page to start one, as is most likely in these cases, then it serves no purpose except to give other contributors an opportunity to discuss; that, too, is only important if you suggest something wrong so that others can correct you and offer a better suggestion. Are we that likely to make a wrong correction, though? Of course, sometimes it's hard to nail it right off the bat, in which case one can always post a comment asking for opinions / other suggestions.
PaulP
3 days ago
+1
Pfirsichbaeumchen
3 days ago
It has happened that people who had been inactive for a considerable time came back after a comment was posted. The waiting period of two weeks also allows other members to voice their opinion on the suggested change.
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Ooneykcall
3 days ago
It just seems like a lot of tedious work to go through the whole process when checking the many old and unattended sentences, and then people don't do that much and we have a lot of misshaped relics. Dealing with those sentences outright when the original contributor is most likely not available for discussion would make it easier. You're the boss though, alright.
Selena777
3 days ago
If a person has an email notification enabled, they often appear even after having been absend for a few month, if you comment their sentences. If the option is disabled,that's unlikely they will appear.
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ricardo14
3 days ago
But the admins can contact them via email without using Tatoeba, can't them? Maybe a "special" email just for just purpose such as tatoeba@tatoeba.org or users@tatoeba.org, etc
TRANG
2 days ago
What are your criteria to figure out if a user is active or inactive?

If you simply want to know if the status of a user is "inactive" (i.e. their profile is deactivated), then you can already know it by looking at the user icon.

If it's an "empty" icon, it means you can adopt the sentence, which means that the user is "inactive" or "suspended".

You will have to be an advanced contributor or higher though. If you are a regular contributor, you will see the "full" icon.
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Guybrush88
2 days ago
>What are your criteria to figure out if a user is active or inactive?

Maybe the last time he/she made some kind of action (posted a comment, added a sentence/translation, linked/tagged sentences...)
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CK
CK
2 days ago - edited 2 days ago
I think we don't really need an "active" or "inactive" indicator to accomplish what Guybrush88 wants.

What he seems to want is a way to know if a suggested correction is likely to be taken care of by the owner, or will he have to go back in 2 weeks and make the correction as a corpus maintainer.

Otherwise inactive members often make corrections after receiving an email.

Having a way to only list comments related to corrections would save time.

Maybe we should start considering having more than one type of comment to make it easier to review our own "suggested corrections" to see if they've been done.
https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/sh...#message_24034





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Guybrush88
2 days ago
this is exactly what I meant with my first post, and this is what I often think when I proofread sentences in Italian and leave a comment if I want to suggest a correction (and maybe also other users might have the same feeling sometimes when proofreading sentences in their own languages)
CK
CK
2 days ago - edited 2 days ago
Maybe we should start considering having more than one type of comment to make it easier to review our own "suggested corrections" to see if they've been done.

Comments seem to fall into these categories:

1. Annotations - Information about the sentence.

2. Corrections needed. / Suggestions on how to make the sentence better.

3. Questions about what a sentence means.

4. Discussions between members about things that are only slightly related to the sentence or not at all related.

5. Greetings to new members and helping new members understand the aims of the Tatoeba Project.


** Some Possible Advantages **

Exporting a file of comments that are annotations would be useful for people who use the sentences for studying.

Members could quickly review their "correction" comments to see if the suggested correction has been done.
Possibly we could have a way to indicate that the correction has been done.
Possibly after corrections have been done, these comments could even be deleted. However, some may prefer to keep these for historical purposes.

Maybe #4 type of discussions could automatically be deleted after a certain amount of time, perhaps a year.




Here is a mock-up I did a few years ago when TRANG was taking a break and sysko was running the website.

http://goo.gl/E1wUIr

It looks a bit ugly now since it uses images and CSS that tatoeba.org no longer uses. However, you can see one possible approach for doing this with "radio buttons."
odexed
2 days ago
When I change a sentence with an 'OK' tag, the tag automatically takes off. Why is it different for marks?
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TRANG
2 days ago
Note that the implementation of the marks/reviews/rating is not complete yet.
Cf. https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/pull/738, "Things to do next".

Rather than removing the rating, there will be a page where users can see their ratings that are outdated (i.e. ratings on sentences that have been modified).

I think this is better than simply removing the rating because you don't lose the information that you have marked the sentence. Otherwise, some sentences will disappear from your collection and you won't know it.
Buzulkusu
2015-07-30 11:10
Who did me block and why?
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Impersonator
2015-07-30 11:45
It seems you've been posting sentences from other sites, without giving proof the author of the sentence allowed to use it on Tatoeba. This may violate copyright and jeopardize Tatoeba. See some of my comments on your sentences for examples.
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Buzulkusu
2015-07-30 12:03
So, when will remove my block or will remove my block?
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pullnosemans
2015-07-30 12:28
maybe if you promise to really, really, really only contribute turkish sentences from now on, though this is not up to me to decide.

I think you haven't fully understood how tatoeba works. you're supposed to post sentences you, yourself, have thought of. because tatoeba allows all of its sentences to be used freely by anyone, by posting a sentence on tatoeba, you're telling anyone who reads it "please feel free to use this sentences wherever you want". therefore, if you post a sentence that is not your own, you're infringing someone's copyright, because they might not want this sentence to be distributed freely.

if turkish is the only language in which you can think of natural, grammatically acceptable sentences, then this language is the only one in which you should contribute. that is how this site works. if you keep refusing to accept this, maybe it's better for the site to keep you blocked, even though we very happily and with gratitude accept your turkish sentences.
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Buzulkusu
2015-07-30 12:36
Ok, I accept.
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Buzulkusu
2015-07-30 14:14
?
vertigo93
2015-07-30 22:09 - edited 30 days ago
Dear "pullnosemans" I'm so thankful that finally you make our turk contributor understand the rules... i was so sick of his/her "contributions" in Azerbaijani ))
TRANG
2015-07-30 18:00
You can contact Pfirsichbaeumchen (https://tatoeba.org/eng/user/pr...rsichbaeumchen), or send an email to community-admins@tatoeba.org if you would like to have more information about why you were blocked and when/if you will be unblocked.
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Buzulkusu
2015-07-30 18:29
I sent it. Can my contribution block remove, do you know?
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TRANG
2015-07-30 20:28
I don't know exactly, sorry. You will have a bit patient, because it can take a few days.
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vertigo93
2015-07-30 22:12
But who is going to delete his (buzulkusu) contributions in Azerbaijani?
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Vortarulo
2 days ago
What about user BuzulkusuPenguin and their contribution to Crimean Tatar? They indicated the same level of expertise in Azerbaijani and Crimean Tatar, and as you say their contributions to Azerbaijani were sub-par, I wonder what you think about his new profile's contributions to this other language...
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BuzulkusuPenguin
2 days ago
Benim Azerbaycan Türkçesi cümlelerimin hiçbirinde yanlışlık yok. Kırım Tatarcası da Türkçe ve elimde kaynaklar olduğu için rahatlıkla yararlanabiliyorum. Kırım Tatarcası bilmiyorsan karalamayın beni.
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deyta
2 days ago
üniversitedeyken 1990'larda bir sürü azeri tanıdım.
hepsi rusça ve türkçe bilen akıllı düzgün insanlardı.

ve 2015 yılına geldik.

tatoeba denen bu sitede; "ingilizce konuş" deyip "Ermeni poposu yalayan" ve doğru dürüst rusça ve türkiye türkçesi bile bilmeyen ve "türkiye türklerine ana avrat küfreden" ne idüğü belirsiz bir herif dışında azerice paylaşım yapan yok.

azerice değil azerbaycanca,
azeri değil azerbaycanlı diyenlere alıştık da bu cehalet ve düşmanlık nereden çıktı.

neyse.. buzulkuşu'na diyeceğim şu.
ana dilinde yani türkiye türkçesinde paylaşım yapman daha doğru olur.

çünkü bu abuk subuk azeri herif;tatoeba yönetimini her daim yanında bulacak.

mal aynı mal.
kafa aynı kafa.
pullnosemans
6 days ago
looks like we're citing cheesy english song lyrics now? seems like you haven't understood the copyright thing after all.

http://tatoeba.org/jpn/sentences/of_user/Buzulkusu
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sacredceltic
6 days ago
Cheesy lyrics are the main fodder to English learning.
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Amastan
3 days ago
Bien dit, mon ami :-)
BuzulkusuPenguin
4 days ago
Şarkı sözleri nasıl telif oluyor?
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Shishir
3 days ago
şarkı sözleri kitaplar gibi, bir yazar/ şarkıcı onları yazdı ve yazarın/şarkıcın telifi var. Bu yüzden Tatoeba'da şarkı sözleri olamaz.

I don't trust my Turkish that much, so I'm going to write it in English too:

the song lyrics are like books, a writer/singer wrote them and he has the copyright for his creation, be it a book or a song. That's why there can't be song lyrics on Tatoeba.
CK
CK
12 days ago
** Adopting Sentences from "Deactivated Accounts" **

http://goo.gl/TDx348

This is a list of links to the "translate sentences" by inactive members.
From these pages, you can easily adopt the good ones in your own native language.
This will show other members which sentences are good by giving them a "stamp of approval" by a native speaker.
You can also adopt the sentences with errors and correct them.

I think you must have a status of "advanced contributor" or higher in order to use this new feature introduced last Monday.
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CK
CK
7 days ago
Updated: http://goo.gl/TDx348

Last week (Aug. 15 to Aug. 22), members adopted sentences by deactivated members in the following languages.

bul, ces, dan, deu, ell, eng, epo, fin, fra, hrv, hun, ind, ita, nld, por, rus, spa

This update shows the sentence counts of the remaining sentences yet to be adopted (and possibly corrected) by these deactivated members.

All the contributions by the deactivated members in the following languages have already been taken care of.

hun, ita, nld

If you don't see the Aug. 22 2015 date on the page, then force a reload to get the new page instead of a cached version of the page on your own computer.


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pullnosemans
6 days ago
thanks for this.
cueyayotl
5 days ago - edited 5 days ago
All of the sentences from deactivated users in Somali are copyright infringements.
pullnosemans
5 days ago - edited 5 days ago
*suggestion for sentence evaluation feature*

how about displaying the number of respective votes on the page that appears right after entering a query?

I don't know about you guys, but I'd say I open an individual sentence's page for less than 50% of the sentences that I use. for people who might take the evaluation feature very seriously in their using the site in the future, displaying the evaluation on the sentence list page might be much more comfortable than having to click on every sentence individually.

we could have the numbers appear above the icons. so, if a sentence has been rated "ok" three times, "unsure" once, and "not ok" zero times, we could have "3" above the "rate as ok" icon, "1" above the "rate as unsure" icon, and "0" above the "rate as not ok" icon.

a downside that I can think of would be that this might create a bias and prime people to give the same vote that has been given the most times so far. but other than that, I think it might be a fine thing to have.
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