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*** netradukitaj frazoj / phrases non traduites / untranslated sentences ***
[epo] Ne ĉiuj lingvoj egalas pri la ne-tradukado
[fra] Toutes les langues ne sont pas égales face à la non traduction
[eng] Not all languages are equal when it comes to non translation
[ita] 10.03% el la italaj frazoj ne estas tradukitaj => 4200 ne tradukitaj frazoj!
[por] 8.94% el la portugalaj => 4490!
[deu] 8.67% el la germanaj => 7630!
[eng] 5.20 % el la anglaj => 11030!
[epo] 4.77% el la esperantaj => 5700!
[fra] 3.70% el la francaj => 3930!
[rus] 2.76% el la rusaj => 930
[pes] 2.19% el la persaj => 245
[spa] 2.15% el la hispanaj => 1574
[vie] 1.97% el la vjetnamaj => 61
[dan] 1.71% el la danaj => 99
[ukr] 1.33% el la ukrainaj => 230
[cmn] 1.25% el la ĉinaj => 419
[nld] 0.67% el la nederlandaj => 152
[jpn] 0.39% el la japanaj => 615
[heb] 0.35% el la hebreaj => 39
[tur] 0.25% el la turkaj => 99
[pol] 0.22% el la polaj => 91
[hun] 0.22% el la hungaraj => 39
[fra] Ce qui est intéressant c'est de voir c'est que ce sont les langues les plus communes de tatoeba qui sont en proportion le moins traduit, sûrement que lorsqu'une personne contribue dans une langue "rare", elle le fait souvent soit en traduisant seulement, soit en ajoutant puis en traduisant peu de temps après.
Alors que les contributeurs dans les langues assez bien représentées sur Tatoeba prennent plus de liberté, ayant surement à l'esprit "De toute manières quelqu'un finira par me traduire"
Bon ça enfonce un peu des portes ouvertes mon analyse...
Ta théorie ne fonctionne pas très bien. Le Japonais est très populaire, mais aussi très traduit (0.39% de non-traduits). Les langues les moins traduites sont l'Italien et le Portugais, mais ce ne sont pas les plus populaires.
>Le Japonais est très populaire
Il y a très peu de natifs qui contribuent en japonais, même si on enlève les faux natifs des statistiques fantaisistes de CK, le nombre de contributeurs en japonais est minimal par rapport aux autres langues populaires. La très vaste majorité des phrases japonaises ont été importées du corpus Tanaka. Très peu ont été créées sur Tatoeba...
Par rapport à l'espéranto, au français, à l'allemand ou à l'espagnol, la popularité du japonais sur Tatoeba est toute relative...
Faktoj pri la Tekstaro Tanaka / Facts about the Tanaka Corpus / Fakten zum Tanaka-Korpus
--> http://www.edrdg.org/wiki/index.php/Tanaka_Corpus
et en fait je viens de réviser les chiffres que je n'avais pas mis à jour depuis un certain temps pour le japonais (du fait que le nombre de phrases dans cette langue croissait plutôt relativement lentement) et il s'avère que la situation se dégrade. Il y a désormais 1,65% des phrases japonaises non traduites, soit 2676 phrases.
je ne m'explique d'ailleurs pas cette augmentation massive.
Soit des phrases japonaises sans traduction ont été ajoutées.
Soit des liens ont été rompus, volontairement ou pas...
Oui, en effet, mais il y a aussi des problèmes de qualité. les phrases qui ne sont pas traduites n'ont pas trouvé preneur...
ou le niveau requis pour les traduire n'est pas disponible, ou leur sujet n'intéresse personne...
Le Mont Fuji...bof!
http://tatoeba.org/eng/contribu...r/mayok/page:5
See translations from Jun 19th 2011,
can we trust that?
Of course it could be someone else who just thought one could trust Google Translate.
I translated quite a few German sentences from mayok and used to trust them...
I can see that at least some are machine-translated. The Yiddish sentence reads "Antshuldikn mir, vos mol iz es?"
That's a mistranslation from English "Excuse me, what time is it?", time here being translated in the sense of "two times, three times, for times" (which is "mal" in German and hence "mol" in Yiddish).
I know that the Yiddish Google Translation is usually quite bad.
I believe it's *him* again.
I take my last comment back. I didn't see his other contributions and comments. Okay, no. I believe it's a user who once upon a time trusted Google Translate too much.
The Yiddish sentence is definitely wrong, but his German seems to be native.
Yep I don't think this account is a fake one from bora, my bora-fake-account-detector-3000-next-gen-deluxe-edition(tm) has recognized no "bora"-like pattern in his behaviour.
I confirm that, although my version is not as state-of-the-art as yours...
This user seems to leave and answer to comment, so may be drop him so comment on the languages in which he has added sentences that he hasn't added in his profile.
Por qué estoy viendo frases mías sin traducción, ¿cuando en realidad son todas traducciones que hice ?
¿sale en el log si alguien las desligó?
si es así debería salir el nombre del que lo hizo.
O si no, también debería salir el link a la frase a la que fue ligada inicialmente, y la puedes volver a ligar tú misma :)
No Marcelo, aparecen mis traducciones sin ningún detalle, como si nunca hubiesen sido una traducciones, no veo que la hayan desligado, pero obviamente fueron desligadas, hice varias traducciones de la Declaración Universal de los Derechos Humanos del español al portugues y están desligadas, pero no puedo ver quíén lo hizo.
@sacredceltic:I'll send it to sysko, many of my traslations have been unlinked :(
Don't worry for this :) Actually I've started working on this issue this weekend, but the internet connection there make the task much much slower. But in the end it will get fix, data are backup often enough.
I don't mean to be insistent but,
how is this going?
is this normal?
it seems a large part of the links were corrupted
I willl have time to restore them around friday, not before, but at the end it will be done
No that was not normal, as any crash anyway. It happends because of the conjonction of boracasli stuff and (and actually mainly this), the fact that google suddenly decided to crawl our website with a 5 request by second rate, so Tatoeba simply said "no I can't, or you should give me a raise" and goes on strike.
but don't worry we get backup of the data so at the end everything will get back to normal.
should be fixed by now.
It seems to be OK now.
English untranslated sentences went from 107XX to 8XXX all of the sudden ^^
I'm sorry about that. Don't lose hope. Each time sysko has been confronted with this problem, he could quikly restore the links...
I think the situation is that only half the link is present. Check on both sides if there is a track of your translation in the history of the sentences.
If the link is present only on one side, then it is not visible from the other side...
is it possible to get a summary of links and unlinks in say, a month?
@hayastan
It's possible that links have been destroyed (and have been restored later?). I saw a few examples myself. Could you find an example? If so, send it to sysko.
Parece-me que elas não foram desligadas (pelo menos de acordo com o log)... Não vejo a tradução desta frase, por exemplo, apesar de estarem ligadas...
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/1245225
Se você clicar em 554863 no histórico, vai ver que elas estão de fato ligadas.
Maintenant Borocasli envoie des croix gammées à mon adresse électronique. Super !
Je porte plainte pour harcèlement ?
On the way to fix everything...
Great news!
Thank you!
Merci sysko :)
Merci sysko !
Kio okazis al la pli ol 100000 esperantaj frazoj?
Ili ankoraŭ ekzistas. Detalojn mi skribis en privata mesaĝo.
Bone!
The number of sentences is correct again: Many thanks to Sysko!!!
Denove la frazonombro estas ĝusta. Multan dankon al Sysko!!!
Die Satzzahl stimmt wieder. Vielen Dank an Sysko!!!
*** Warning / Avertissement / Averto ***
[eng]
rene1596 pretends to be a native French speaker insisting every now and then that he is from Paris. However, over the course of several weeks, I noticed repeated mistakes that only a foreigner can make.
His French is not bad, but far from as good as he thinks it is. I tagged most of his correct French sentences with an OK tag. The others are doubtful and I advise you not to trust them.
As he obviously knows russian, since he translates from it, and given the time he dedicates trying to discredit me and contradicting my corrections, I think he is the latest avatar of FeuDRenais http://tatoeba.org/eng/user/profile/FeuDRenais, who cancelled his user account when I unmasked him as not being a native English speaker, which he pretended the last time. This young boy is actually russian, and has obviously a lot of time and perversity to impersonate other nationalities as he thinks he can outsmart everybody.
Next time, he'll probably pretend he is Chinese...
Of course, this boy must have a very high opinion of himself being able to do this, but not only does it give him an overconfidence that will smart him, but this behaviour is very detrimental to Tatoeba, since visitors then read unnatural sentences that they believe to be written by natives. This ruins all the patient work accomplished by serious contributors.
[fra]
rene1596 prétend être français en insistant constamment être de Paris. Cependant, au long de plusieurs semaines, j'ai remarqué des fautes répétées typiques que seuls des non-francophones peuvent commettre. Son français n'est pas mauvais, mais loin d'être aussi parfait qu'il le pense. J'ai étiqueté la plupart de ses phrases françaises correctes "OK". Les autres sont douteuses et je vous déconseille de vous y fier.
Comme il connaît à l'évidence le russe, qu'il traduit, et étant donné le temps qu'il consacre à essayer de me dénigrer et à contredire mes corrections, je pense qu'il est le dernier avatar de FeuDRenais http://tatoeba.org/eng/user/profile/FeuDRenais, qui avait annulé son compte utilisateur lorsque je l'avais démasqué comme non-natif anglophone, ce qu'il prétendait être la dernière fois. Ce jeune garçon est en vérité russe et dispose à l'évidence de beaucoup de temps et de perversité pour se faire passer comme ayant d'autres nationalités, tandis qu'il pense qu'il peut duper tout le monde.
La prochaine fois, il se fera sans doute passer pour chinois...
Bien sûr, ce garçon doit avoir une très haute opinion de lui-même d'être capable de réaliser cela, mais non seulement cela lui procure une présomption qui lui en cuira, mais ce comportement est vraiment dommageable pour Tatoeba, puisque des visiteurs lisent alors des phrases non naturelles dont il croient quelles sont écrites par des locuteurs natifs. Ceci ruine tout le patient travail réalisé par les contributeurs sérieux.
[epo]
rene1596 komedias esti francano kiu diradas ke li estas el Paris. Tamen, post pluraj semajnoj mi rimarkis ke li faris regulajn erarojn, karakterajn de ne-denaska francolingvanoj. Lia franca lingvo ne estas malbona, sed ĝi estas for de esti tiel bona kiel li opinias. Mi etikedis la plimulton el liaj korektaj francaj frazoj kun la etikedo "OK". La aliaj estas dubindaj kaj mi malkonsilas al vi fidi ilin.
Kiel li scipovas la rusan kiun li tradukas, kaj kiel li dediĉas multe da tempo provi kritikaĉi min kaj kontraŭdiri miajn korektadojn, mi opinias ke li estas la lasta avataro de FeuDRenais http://tatoeba.org/eng/user/profile/FeuDRenais, kiu nuligis sian konton kiam mi senmaskigis lin antaŭe, kiam li lastatempe komediis esti denaska angla lingvano. Tiu ĉi knabo vere estas rusa kaj kompreneble disponas multon da tempo kaj perverseco por komedii havi aliajn naciecojn kiel li opinias ke li povas trompi ĉiujn.
La sekva fojon, li certe komedios esti ĉino...
Certe, tiu knabo havas tre altan opinion pri sin mem kapabli fari tion, sed ne nur tio donas al li superkonfidon kiun li pentos, sed tiu sinteno vere damaĝas Tatoebao, ĉar vizitantoj legas ne-naturajn frazojn kiun ili kredas ke ili estis skribita de denaskaj parolantoj. Tio nocas al tuto la pacienca laboro farita de la fidindaj kontribuantoj.
This is a complete nonsense.
I am French, born in Paris, living in Paris area. I translate from Russian, because I am interested in this language like I said in my profile. What's wrong with that ?
Unfortunately, Mr. Sacredceltic insults me, every time I try to have a quiet conversation with me. He is not happy because I don't agree with some (only about 10%) of his sentences and remarks. He originates from a region called la Bretagne, where people are speaking in French since only the beginning of the 20th century, and there are regional differences in the way poeple use the French language. This is a fact. He makes errors (everybody does of course), and when I show them by statistics from Google, this is turning him into a mad dog.
So, I have decded to stop talking to him, and that's all.
But I can assure Tatoeba's administrators and community that my mother tongue is really French, and that I don't want to make any troubles to Tatoeba or to any member of its community. I am an old linguist. I am very happy to have found Tatoeba, and I wish its database to be very good and very big, because it will surely help create better translating tools than those we have today.
--Rene1596 :-)
Imposteur ! And you think you're so smart! You're such a fool FeuDRenais!
"*You're such a fool."
Bonvolu konservi vian ĝentilecon!
Not with swindlers!
Why do you think it's FeudRenais? I don't think he has such a perverse mind, mainly because if he had it, he wouldn't correct the mistakes of others warning them "don't translate into a language that you don't master", if he wanted to corrupt the corpus he wouldn't care.
Yes, he did a good job fooling you!
But he is incapable to make long complex sentence in French, including his wall posts...
His target is not to corrupt the corpus but to discredit me and that I stop contributing. His allegations about my French are simply grotesque.
Choose to trust his french if you want, but you're making a big mistake!
This guy is not a native french speaker. He's just good at fooling people and you are encouraging him because he sees that it works!
"I am very happy to have found Tatoeba, and I wish its database to be very good and very big, because it will surely help create better translating tools than those we have today." - ...you have indeed stolen my idea! ...but it may be yours too.
So I hope we can consent, that we are an almost perfect team here working for this challenging project. Let's all together continue without to much quereling; there remains a lot of work to do.
I don't think this belongs on the Wall. Discussions about particular users should be private.
Je crois que cette discussion devrait être privée.
Non ce n'est pas privé. Le fait que des vandales vicieux se fassent passer pour des natifs pour foutre la merde, ça n'est pas privé ! C'est l'existence même du service qui est en jeu !
No it's not private! The fact that vicious vandals pose as natives to create a mess is not private ! It's about the very existence of the service!
I don't see how Rene is a vandal.
he creates non natural sentences in French and makes people believe they are all correct posing as a French native. This is outrageous and completely detrimental to the trust people put in Tatoeba. It ruins the efforts by natives to have the best possible corpus and puts doubts in the mind of users who then renounce using the service if it can't be trusted.
[not needed anymore- removed by CK]
Who accidentally deleted sentences and why?
as a side note
Going to a user without any sentences gives "[user] does not have any sentence" as the error message. That should be "sentences".
What about the current situation. Who can tell me?
Vicious kids are torpedoeing Tatoeba...
-directtrue/alias borocasli who is a mischievous turkish boy created hundreds of sentences translated by robots (this is the umpteenth time he does that)
-He spammed my personal e-mail account because I protested.
-He created fake accounts using other contributor's pseudos and identity.
-I unmasked rene1596 as being a fake French national posing as a real one, see http://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/sho...5#message_8395
FeuDRenais will probably also exert his revenge for that with some new mischievous trick.
I hope the admin can find new ways to deter such behaviours.
My twopence:
- the speed of translation/insertion of sentences should be analysed to automatically block users who insert sentences too fast from robots (outside of normal authorised imports)
- The number of languages in which a single user inserts sentences over a period of time should be automatically analysed to block users who insert sentences in many different languages in a quik time.
- There should be a system of peers that guarantee the nativeness/proficiency of people in the languages to stop people who pose as natives when they are not. There should thus be 2 types of accounts : certified native/proficient and non certified.
Non certified accounts' sentences would be filtered, so that other non certified accounts would not see them so they would not translate them (they would not appear on the home page). Once a non-certified accounts gets certified, his sentences are un-filtered. Certified users can still see all sentences.