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Bacheca (7.190 discussioni)

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gillux gillux 17 ore fa 30 ottobre 2025 13:20:18 UTC flag Segnala link Permalink

Tatoeba was updated today. What’s new?

– The "sentence is owned by a native speaker" search filter got much more advanced: you can now use it on both sentences and translations, you can now search for sentences contributed by non-native speakers, and you can now use this filter when searching in "any language". Many thanks to @frpzzd for requesting this change (and to myself for implementing it). Details: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/3203

– The list of users by language proficiency (menu Community → Languages of members → click on a language) was updated to highlight active members. Not only members are now ordered by "last activity", but an icon is also displayed on the ones active within the past week. This provides a way to easily find native and active speakers of a language. Many thanks to @AlanF_US for requesting this change and to @frpzzd for implementing it! Details: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/3075

– The Ingrian language was updated. The new flag was suggested by @Thadh and created by @frpzzd. Details: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/3129.

– I fixed a bug that prevented some audio recordings from being disabled by admins. That issue was known for years and frequently getting in the way of admins, such as in sentence #2940574.

– It is now possible to filter sentences by license on the API on https://api.tatoeba.org/

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AlanF_US AlanF_US 9 ore fa 30 ottobre 2025 21:14:57 UTC flag Segnala link Permalink

Thanks a lot, @gillux, @frpzzd, and @Thadh!

It's both helpful and interesting to be able to see the most recent contributors in a given language, with a special symbol for those who have been active in the last week. I'm also glad the bug preventing some sentences with audio from being edited has been fixed.

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LeviHighway LeviHighway 6 ore fa 31 ottobre 2025 00:24:07 UTC flag Segnala link Permalink

I think all users who have been active in the last week should be displayed in the front... For most languages, only one or two or no native speakers are active in a week... and users in the front of the user list are mostly native speakers who has been years inactive.

LeviHighway LeviHighway 14 ore fa 30 ottobre 2025 16:15:45 UTC flag Segnala link Permalink

Is it possible to introduce the actual tagging function (@someone) on Tatoeba? People often tag others, but there's no actual notifications. 😅 But I understand this might be very hard, tho.

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frpzzd frpzzd 14 ore fa 30 ottobre 2025 16:36:46 UTC flag Segnala link Permalink

I think this functionality exists, but only via email, and you have to make sure you have email notifications turned on in your account settings. I, for one, get an email whenever someone tags me in a wall post or comment.

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Guybrush88 Guybrush88 13 ore fa 30 ottobre 2025 16:41:17 UTC flag Segnala link Permalink

I agree that such a feature would be useful for those with the email notifications turned off, since they would likely receive many other mails, if they own many sentences within the corpus

13 ore fa 30 ottobre 2025 16:39:53 UTC link Permalink
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17 ore fa 30 ottobre 2025 12:52:05 UTC link Permalink
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LeviHighway LeviHighway ieri 30 ottobre 2025 02:08:33 UTC flag Segnala link Permalink

On Tatoeba, many people use Cookie as the wildcard for pet names. I'm not sure how should I translate that. We mainly have two ways to call the actual cookie in Chinese, which are 餅乾 (native vocab) and 曲奇 (loanword in Cantonese, which is the Cantonese phonetical mimic of "cookie", but it doesn't sound like "cookie" in Mandarin). But the main problem is, no matter which one I use, both 餅乾 and 曲奇 would sound like the actual cookie instead of a pet name.

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Guybrush88 Guybrush88 19 ore fa 30 ottobre 2025 11:08:19 UTC flag Segnala link Permalink

In Italian, I use both the loan word ("Cookie") and the literal translation ("Biscotto")

AlanF_US AlanF_US 17 ore fa, modificata il 17 ore fa 30 ottobre 2025 12:41:17 UTC, modificata il 30 ottobre 2025 12:44:38 UTC flag Segnala link Permalink

First, a little background. Tatoeba itself does not have any notion of "wildcards". One particular contributor writes sentences that make use of a single human male name, a single human female name, a single surname, a single pet name, even a single day of the week, time of day, country name, address, and on and on. He chose that practice, and those names, without regard for any of the following:

- how well the names can be translated into other languages
- whether use of those "wildcards" would drive out use of other possible names, times, and so on

Since that contributor is very prolific, and writes in English (the most translated language and also the one with the most sentences), the effects have propagated through the entire corpus, probably mostly because people have translated those sentences, and to a smaller degree because people have followed his example when writing new sentences.

You have various choices, which are not mutually exclusive:
- Skip these sentences when translating.
- Write your own Chinese sentences with your own pet names. (I intentionally wrote "names" rather than "name" because using the same name every time perpetuates the original problems.)
- Add comments to at least one of those sentences discussing the name you used and how it might be translated.
- Translate your own such Chinese sentences into English.
- Write your own original English sentences.
- Write sentences that refer to pets without using their names. (For instance, in English, this could be done with pronouns.)

Or, if you are intent on translating these sentences:
- Use a name that means something close to though not identical to "cookie", but would be more easily understood as a pet name.
- Use a name that sounds close to though not identical to "cookie", but would be more easily understood as a pet name.
- Use the English name ("Cookie") untranslated and untransliterated, if that happens frequently in written Chinese outside Tatoeba.

23 ore fa 30 ottobre 2025 06:40:20 UTC link Permalink
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ieri 29 ottobre 2025 19:00:42 UTC link Permalink
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2 giorni fa 28 ottobre 2025 10:23:16 UTC link Permalink
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LeviHighway LeviHighway 12 giorni fa 19 ottobre 2025 01:04:00 UTC flag Segnala link Permalink

I feel quite frustrated when translating English into Chinese. There are many English sentences use "it," "he/she," or "this/that." This is frustrating because even tho if I can translate them into 它, 他, 她, 這個, 那個, but they all sound very unnatural. For example "it is there" is translated into "它在那," but we rarely use 它 that way. We almost always specify the thing. Also, there're sentences that use "he" and "she" together, like "he loves her." It is translated into "他愛她" but you would never hear this sentence in real life, because 他 and 她 have the same pronunciation. It would sound like "ta lives ta," which is very confusing. Also "this/that happens" is translated into "這/那會發生" or "這/那件事會發生," which are still understandable, but you'll never say them in real life. I can't think a good solution for those situations.

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LeviHighway LeviHighway 12 giorni fa 19 ottobre 2025 01:22:59 UTC flag Segnala link Permalink

An addition: "do", Chinese much less commonly use a generalized verb like English "to do".

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frpzzd frpzzd 12 giorni fa 19 ottobre 2025 02:28:42 UTC flag Segnala link Permalink

Just curious, regarding the ta/ta situation, is it any different in writing (i.e. would it be just as unnatural to read that sentence in a book)?

How do you generally refer to multiple different people of different genders in context - would you generally refer to them by name each time? For instance, something like:

"I don't think Tom should marry Mary."
- "But he loves her!"

If an analogous interaction were taking place in Chinese, would the second sentence just repeat their names? Or maybe use a pronoun for one of them while repeating the other's name?

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LeviHighway LeviHighway 12 giorni fa 19 ottobre 2025 02:35:32 UTC flag Segnala link Permalink

It feels weird to me. Because when I read a sentence, there's a voice in my head. So "ta loves ta" would look weird, because I'm trying to read out the sentence.

Thanuir Thanuir 11 giorni fa 19 ottobre 2025 13:03:08 UTC flag Segnala link Permalink

Without knowing Chinese, some possibilities, in no particular order:

1. Leave the difficult sentences untranslated. Maybe you have a better idea when you meet them in the future, and there is no lack of English sentences to translate, not to speak of other languages.
2. Look at other translations of the sentence for inspiration. (But be careful to add any translation to the sentence it is a translation of.)
3. Consider a context for the original sentence, and then consider how you would or could translate the entire context, and then check if that creates a valid translation for the sentence in question.
4. To translate "He loves her." into Finnish, I have to do some maneuver like "he" -> "man/boy" or "she" -> "woman/girl", as "he" and "she" both translate to "hän", and "Hän rakastaa häntä." is a somewhat strange construction. I do consider these various variations with man, boy, girl or woman to be acceptable translations.
5. English has constructions like "There is a car in the garage.", where the "there is" part has no equivalent in Finnish, so this would simply become "Autotallissa on auto.". The structure of the sentence is different, but the meaning is the same. A valid translation.

gillux gillux 4 giorni fa 26 ottobre 2025 08:01:37 UTC flag Segnala link Permalink

I don’t think every sentence is meant to be translated in every language; just don’t translate a sentence if it feels too weird. You can add your own sentences that reflect a broader and more typical use of Chinese, and let other members translate your sentences.

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small_snow small_snow 4 giorni fa 26 ottobre 2025 10:23:58 UTC flag Segnala link Permalink

+1

sharptoothed sharptoothed 5 giorni fa 26 ottobre 2025 06:06:16 UTC flag Segnala link Permalink

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