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Pinnwand (7.122 Diskussionen)
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I'm new here. I found the site afte ra reference at the Zompist conlanging board.
Welcome to Tatoeba!
You can contribute in any language that has a three digit ISO language code. It was discussed whether to adopt conlangs some time ago http://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/sho...#message_10731
However, if you wantes to contribute in a somehow wider known conlang, i guess that we could discuss about it.
Bienvenue !
@jakov
Kia vi tiel facile trovas maljunajn murmesagxojn ?
Mi serĉis per guglo je "tatoeba conlang" aŭ "site:tatoeba.org conlang".
("kia … tiel" → "kiel … tiel/tiom")
Hey, thanks!
I wasn't really planning on adding any conlangs, but I speak Japanese and figured I'd contribute where I can. That said, I find this site is *just* the thing to help me develop my conlang.
That said, it'd be interesting to see conlangs on here.
タトエバにようこそ！
There are a lot of japanese sentences that need revision and adoption (see the Help page linked in the footer if you're not familiar with Tatoeba's jargon and system).
"Sao lại không được?"
There are many example sentences but I can search only one.
nº337934
nº1589788
Is there any thing wrong to search in Vietnamese ?
nº1589788 had been added recently. The search engine cache has not been updated yet.
It will appear in the search, but not immediately.
how long will the cache be updated ? will it be cleared to have a new one automatically ?
I found a Tatoeba sentence in the Lojban Wiktionary:
http://jbo.wiktionary.org/wiki/kindi'u
In "Add sentence" Page.
Can you have another optional page which display 5 or 10 or 15 fields of text to add at the same time ?
With current page, it is slow to wait for the Javascript to run to type another sentence.
I want to suggest that all tags that have no items, e.g. the typos like "OK[" (0) should be deleted automatically or at least be put to a seperate list of ex-tags.
Also, there's something strange about a the tag http://tatoeba.org/deu/tags/sho...y_Isaac_Asimov : In the list of tags it says that there are "(-1)" items with that tag, which is obviously a bug.
+1
Though some tags such as "@change" or "@needs native check" are virtually possible to be nought, so exceptions should be taken into consideration.
I agree, but the disadvantage would only be that if such a tag would be purged (removed from all sentences after improvement) the first user to add it again to a sentence wouldnt have te auto-complete function. I think if we write down which tag has which puropse then its not a big thing.
Fair enough for me.
+1
tag names that contain : and maybe other special symbols do not work properly...
I just wrote "http://example.com/thats_the_url" and seperated the ":" so it didnt destroy the link, but it's not part of the link. So there's nothing special about "by Isaac Asimov", at least no special character.
OK, mi nur volis informi vin cxiukaze...
Mi ricevis trudmesaĝon de iu "misstushar".
Ankaŭ la persikarbetino hieraŭ ricevis trudmesaĝon.
Sed ne de mi. :-P
Mesaĝo de vi sendube estus pli ĝojinda. :o)
Me too.
About this scam: http://www.scamwarners.com/foru...p?f=13&p=96078
http://tatoeba.org/spa/user/profile/misstushar
Zara like be my friend.
Welcome Zara if you aren't a ¿troll, spammer?
http://tatoeba.org/spa/user/profile/misstushar
Zara like be my friend.
Welcome Zara if you aren't a ¿troll, spammer?
Niestety nie mogę odsłuchać mp3 na przykład w zdaniu 887207 i w wielu innych; dlaczego?
Nie wiem, dlaczego... U mnie (w Firefoksie 12) pracuje, mogę odsłuchać mp3 w tym zdaniu.
Nigdy nie mogłem odsłuchać zdań na tej witrynie internetowej. Ja też używam Firefox, i dla mnie mówi, że "The QuickTime plugin has crashed."
Mnie tez zawsze mowi "Wtyczka QuickTime ulegla awarii". To musi byc cos zwionzane z QuickTime a nie z Tatoeba...
Nie mówię po polski, ale będę używać Google Translate:
Możesz spróbować użyć innej przeglądarki.
ON THE LICENSE
I believe the discussion on the license we are having can RUIN the maid idea of Tatoeba, or at least harm it.
WHAT IS DISCUSSED
Some people say that "Taken from Tatoeba, copyright Tatoeba contributors" is not enough as a contribution, and you should say "Taken from Tatoeba sentences 222, 3333, 44444, 555555" or "Taken from Tatoeba, copyright muiriel, sacredceltic, FeuDRenais".
WHAT IT IMPLIES
It will make re-using Tatoeba data much harder. People can't just add one line to their "About" dialog, they will be FORCED TO CHANGE THEIR PROGRAMS if they want to use Tatoeba data.
Often changing program is not an option. E.g. proram may be written by someone else, and you just import data into it.
This will effectively REDUCE THE USEFULLNESS OF TATOEBA for other sites. Many sites, who can't or don't want to change their programs, will HAVE TO AVOID TATOEBA DATA.
WHY IT IS IMPORTANT
From the very beginning, Tatoeba project was intended only as ONE of the projects to break linguistic barriers. Remember Trang's video:
http://www.universalsubtitles.o...-of-sentences/ (start from 2:50):
"But you know, it would be sad to collect all these sentences and keep them for ourselves. Because there's so much you can do with them. Which is why Tatoeba is "open"... This means you ca re-use them freely for a textbook, for an application, for a research project, for anything! <...> So, ultimately with Tatoeba we're only building the foundations to make the Web a better place for language leraning."
The idea is that Tatoeba database can be re-used: it makes them much more useful.
This change WILL UNLTIMATELY MAKE TATOEBA MUCH LESS OPEN.
LEGAL POINT OF VIEW
"Copyright Tatoeba contributors" already includes "muiriel, sacredceltic and FeuDRenais" (anyone can visit http://tatoeba.org/rus/users/all and see the full list), there is no REAL need to ask to mention them separately.
BUT CC-BY gives you RIGHT to specify contribution format. So it is not a legal requirement to specify long attribution phrases, but it's possible.
I must stress: it's not a legal requirement, it's a requirement WE, THE CONTRIBUTORS, CAN FORCE ON OTHERS.
A PLEA
I personally HOPE this new attribution format is not adopted. Because it would efficiently make Tatoeba licensing terms as cumbersome as the licensing terms of traditional corpuses.
Please... please don't ruin what I liked in Tatoeba most. That sense of making something useful. The sense that it's not just site as it is, but a foundation for something much bigger.
I fully disagree and this is not how Tatoeba licence is. The sentences authors should be respected under CC-BY. They must be cited. There is no "Tatoeba author" as a whole. Tatoeba is every single of its authors.
"Paternité [BY] (Attribution) : l'œuvre peut être librement utilisée, à la condition de l'attribuer à l'auteur en citant son nom."
Tatoeba is not the author. Citing Tatoeba's name doesn't conform to CC-BY.
If you misinterpreted CC-BY, you should blame yourself, but not complain...
I, for one, read it carefully when I started this project.
Again : Glosbe should name the authors or at least provide links to each and every sentence they imported or forget it...
I won't let anyone make money out of my work without paying tribute !
I don't understand what are your aspirations there,
I don't see what's there for you to win or lose,
I only see what there to lose for the project.
But I'm only giving my best to try to understand these business I don't know much about.
I have no aspirations at all. I want our work to be respected.
Rule should not change during a game.
From the start, Tatoeba is CC-BY and that includes "BY". Point. So whoever wants to reuse Tatoeba must abide by the terms of CC-BY, especially when it is for a commercial purpose.
Do you have shares in Glosbe ? Are you afraid for your investment ?
"Do you have shares in Glosbe ? Are you afraid for your investment ?"
No, as I said, it's something I don't know much about, and I totally agree that other projects should be impelled to grant links to each sentence they post,
but I really never had your conception of the individual contributor in front of the corpus. Even though "the rules" say that, I don't understand what there's to win or lose to you, and also, no one forces you to contribute with a gun on your chest.
>no one forces you to contribute with a gun on your chest.
No. But apart from the feeling of helping the community, users also create sentences because they have a sense of authorship. If that appeal was absent, I bet Tatoeba would have at least 10 times less sentences nowadays, including yours, for all you say...and that the remaining sentences would be of much lower quality, because people wouldn't take so much pain.
Doing away with the sense of authorship would actually have been fatal to Tatoeba !
I, for one, have made around 235 000 contributions to Tatoeba (see my profile), whether creating, translating, correcting or commenting sentences. If you account an average of just 1 minute per contribution, it is 489 workdays, 8 hours a day. It is a huge time investment which tells how much I value this.
Some days, I worked from 7am to 12pm non stop for Tatoeba...
Translating and coining phrases might be a minor form of art, but it is no less valuable than recording house music. I can't see why authors of sentences would be deprived of their creations more than musicians are.
People must take pride in whatever it is that they do. I'm not asking for anything but deserved credit.
I'm not particularly interested in having my pseudo associated with any content (this is a pseudo, not my name, so I remain anonymous anyway...) and, what with the many corrections and informational comments, each sentence is actually a collective piece of work, but I want a URL to point at that collective work, to show to people that it is HERE, in Tatoeba, that a formidable team of good-willing and dedicated people have created this huge amount of work.
I want people to see how it was made, collectively, and I also want them to be drawn to our service to enrich it, rather than to blindly consume it without any chance to get any payback, or rather feed financial payback to others.
I see absolutely no point in having our work imprisoned in commercial services who do not communicate back to us and in which our quality work is drowned in the middle of tons of poor robotic translations !
What's the point of helping them make money out of our work ? I don't even understand your qualms...These guys must have so much fun thinking how idiotic people can be to make them make money for free...
Then what about contributing link-makers? If moderator linked two sentences, according to your logics, he also should be contributed.
Indeed. In theory, all participants to comments and corrections and links should be cited.
That is why the solution I propose is the minimum ;: provide a direct link to every sentence into Tatoeba. It's easy, simple, cheap...
If you can't do that simple thing for us and want to make money from our work anyway, just forget it !
The problem is, people will just forget. :(
I wonder how many projects we will not see because of this.
>people will just forget.
Forget what ? To insert a simple url ? I'll explain them how to do that myself...
When you can't do such simple things, you shouldn't publish a service on the web using other people's creations.
"Since 2004, all current licenses require attribution of the original author.[4] The attribution must be given to "the best of [one's] ability using the information available".[7] Generally this implies the following:
Include any copyright notices (if applicable). If the work itself contains any copyright notices placed there by the copyright holder, those notices must be left intact, or reproduced in a way that is reasonable to the medium in which the work is being re-published.
Cite the author's name, screen name, or user ID, etc. If the work is being published on the Internet, it is nice to link that name to the person's profile page, if such a page exists.
Cite the work's title or name (if applicable), if such a thing exists. If the work is being published on the Internet, it is nice to link the name or title directly to the original work.
Cite the specific CC license the work is under. If the work is being published on the Internet, it is nice if the license citation links to the license on the CC website.
Mention if the work is a derivative work or adaptation, in addition to the above, one needs to identify that their work is a derivative work i.e., “This is a Finnish translation of [original work] by [author].” or “Screenplay based on [original work] by [author].”
"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cr...ommons_license
=> Cite the work's title or name (if applicable), if such a thing exists. If the work is being published on the Internet, it is nice to link the name or title directly to the original work.
el estado ideal para la comunicación verdaderamente global